Guest
Andy Flattery is a return guest. He’s the owner of Simple Wealth Planning of Kansas City and Host of The Reformed Financial Advisor Podcast. But most importantly for today’s podcast, he is well-acquainted with the Benedictine Sisters of Mary, Queen of the Apostles and has visited them recently to venerate the body of an American incorruptible.
Links
- A miracle in Missouri? Body of Benedictine Sisters’ foundress thought to be incorrupt (article)
- Nuns Building Citadels & Civilization (podcast)
- God’s Will: The Life and Works of Sr. Mary Wilhelmina (book)
- Funeral of a Foundress: Sr. Wilhelmina and the Liturgy of the Dead (2019 article)
- Brides of Christ (Picture book)
- Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles (website)
Transcript
Eric Sammons:
The body of an American religious founders was found to be miraculously incorrupt four years after her death. What does this mean and what might God be telling us through this? We’re going to talk to somebody who knows the community well and recently visited Sister Wilhelmina’s body. Hello, Eric Sammons, your host and editor-in-chief of Crisis Magazine. Before I get started, just want to encourage people to smash that like button and to subscribe to the channel. And also you can follow us on social media @CrisisMag.
Okay, so today we have Andy Flattery who has been on the podcast before on a completely different subject. He is the owner of Simple Wealth Planning of Kansas City and the host of the Reform Financial Advisor podcast. But we’re not going to talk about any of that today. In fact, I’ll make sure there’s a link to our podcast where we do talk about that for anybody who’s interested. Most importantly for today, he’s well acquainted with the Benedictine Sisters of Mary Queen of the Apostles, and has very recently visited them as well as the incorrupt body of Sister Wilhelmina. Welcome to the program, Andy.
Andy Flattery:
Eric, always a joy to speak with you and thanks for having me on.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, it’s great. I was so excited when I saw your tweet that said you had been there. I was like, “Oh, I got to talk to somebody who’s been there,” because this is very exciting. In fact, I was thinking about it and there’s a lot of stuff in the news, in the Catholic news world, with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence being honored by the Dodgers. We have DeSantis announcing for presidency this week, all this stuff going on. And in my mind, this is the most important news story in America, maybe the world right now, because this is something that is miraculous, literally miraculous. It’s really a message from God in a lot of ways.
So for people who might not have any idea what we’re talking about, we’re going to get into it detail, but just the really quick version is simply that a religious order of sisters in Missouri, they were moving the body of their foundress who died four years ago, and instead of it just being bones, the body was still preserved, essentially, and what Catholics would call incorrupt. And so that’s the basic story. Now we’re going to get into detail some. So first of all, Andy, why don’t you tell us a little bit about Sister Wilhelmina herself. Who in the world was this person?
Andy Flattery:
Okay. Yeah, so Sister Wilhelmina, she didn’t come out of anywhere. In fact, when I was up at the abbey on Sunday, I picked up this book that they put out, and it’s a beautiful book that the sisters put together after her death. It’s called God’s Will, and I’ve been sort of paging through it here over the last couple of days. And she did indeed live a very saintly life. Sister Wilhelmina had been a nun her entire life, and at the age of 20, she essentially joined a religious order after having grown up in a devout Black Catholic family in St. Louis. And so throughout her life, she exhibited the qualities of a very saintly woman. I think she had at least two visions of the blessed Virgin Mary. Her oldest memory was a vision of the blessed Virgin Mary at age two.
I think when she was nine years old or something like that, the book recounts at her first communion, she felt a calling to be a bride of Christ and to be a religious sister. And what had happened was she was from a very pious family and had always had a respect for the liturgy, for Gregorian chant, but in the ’60s and ’70s, her order was starting to move away from that tradition and they were moving away from the habit. I think at one time they moved from the traditional habit to some sort of toned down version of the habit. I don’t know what the right terminology is. But after her father died, she went back to St. Louis to visit her mother, and when her mother saw Sister in the stripped down version of the habit, she said, “I’m so glad your father didn’t see you like this.”
Eric Sammons:
Wow.
Andy Flattery:
After that, Sister put back on the traditional habit and she wore it for the rest of her life. In fact, she was required to make it herself because she couldn’t find anyone that was still making the traditional habit. There’s an anecdote about how she used some sort of plastic jug or something like that to make the headpiece.
So that is her story. In 1995, she had a calling to start a new religious order of traditional nuns. She had gone back to the Latin mass, I believe, in the ’80s and ’90s, and then in 2006, that religious order came under the Diocese of Kansas City, Missouri. Bishop Finn basically was praying for an order of sisters to come to the diocese. They’d been here since 2006 and are now named the Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles and the sort of fruits of it are here to speak for themselves.
They’re a remarkable order. They’re number one on Spotify for the Gregorian chant, which they do at every mass and it’s awesome. And I think one of the reasons for my belief in this miracle is knowing that she did live a saintly life. It sort of adds up. And what I’m hearing from the sisters in the Abbey is that they weren’t surprised at all. In fact, maybe they were even sort of expecting that this sort of miracle might happen with her body. So that’s what I would-
Eric Sammons:
Wow, that’s amazing. So now there’s some connection with the fraternity of St. Peter, and didn’t when she first started the order, wasn’t it through them or something like that? Do you know the details of that?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, their charism is certainly, I think, probably still aligned with the FSSP, and that was the idea, I think, in 1995. I’m not the right person to ask of all of this, but my understanding was there was some disagreement early on about what kind of order it was going to be, if it was going to be some sort of cloistered order or something else. And it had a really sort of tumultuous beginning.
And I think to Sister Wilhelmina’s credit, and she was in poor health for the last couple decades of her life, she persevered throughout decades of this order coming together and going through various leaders and until finally coming to their final resting place in Gower, Missouri. I’m not the right person to ask as to how that transition happened, but they did find a home in the Diocese of KC MO, which is where they are today.
Eric Sammons:
Okay. So basically though, they’re a traditional order. Do you know, they celebrate both Novus Ordo mass like mass or is it mostly just traditional Latin mass? When you’ve been there, has it always been the traditional Latin mass?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, it’s exclusively the traditional Latin mass. However, their chaplain is a diocesan priest who celebrates their traditional Latin mass. So I think they use, I believe it’s the 1962 missal, and that is indeed part of their charism. And Sister Wilhelmina was a staunch defender of the traditional Latin mass.
Eric Sammons:
Oh wow. Okay. Amazing. But the diocese is who they’re connected with right now, right? Just the Kansas City, Missouri diocese, is that right?
Andy Flattery:
That’s right, yeah. Their novitiate was created underneath Bishop Finn, who was the bishop back in 2006. And they’re underneath the diocese of KC MO.
Eric Sammons:
Okay. Okay. So now she died in 2019. In fact, just before we started recording this podcast, I saw that at over at our sister publication OnePeterFive, there is a beautiful article on her funeral, just kind of reflecting on a traditional Latin mass funeral. It’s a bit different than a Catholic funeral today under the Novus Ordo, and just reflecting on how beautiful it was on her life and things like that. So I’ll link to… In fact, I’m going to write that down to link to that as well, so people can read that.
So essentially though, she started this up in 1995 when she was about 70, and then she died in 2019. Now you went there a few months ago and record a podcast. This is how I first realized about them. I’d heard of the music, but I never could remember which it was. But then you did a podcast where you interviewed them and it was great. And I’ll link to that definitely, because I remember listening. It was great. So tell us about what led you to even go there in the first place to interview them, especially since you host a financial advisor podcast.
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, I think part of the appeal is if you go to this place, the Abbey of Ephesus is what it’s called, in Gower, it really is a pilgrimage. And so for me living in the Kansas City metro, it’s 45 minutes from where we’re at. They have a schedule of prayer and they welcome pilgrims to go and join in prayer. They are indeed cloistered nuns, so they’re not going to fraternize with you. They’re going to go about their schedule of work and pray, but you’re welcome to go there and pray with them.
And so part of my interest was just pure curiosity and an interesting way that they were able to build the Abbey of Ephesus was years back, there was a couple of generous benefactors that were like, “Hey, we know you guys have a need in this church to get this thing built. We know you don’t want to go into debt. Can we gift you some appreciated Bitcoin that we have?” So I’ve been sort-
Eric Sammons:
Everybody who knows me and knows you, it’s immediately, okay, this is why Eric’s in interested in this. Now it’s a Bitcoin angle, right?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah. So that’s the connection there. And you might think, well, what is the connection with some… I mean, they really are traditional Benedictine sisters in every sense. But I think there is a universal appeal for these sisters. They have support from all over the world. They have sisters from several countries around the world that come to join this order, and these are young women that come to join this order. So I think maybe there’s a benefit there. They have a public Bitcoin address on their website where you can send a donation to.
Eric Sammons:
I am sending them one as soon as we get off, now that you tell them that.
Andy Flattery:
Yeah. Yeah. And so I think these sisters, they have the can-do attitude of, “Let’s get this done and let’s embrace this technology if it’s going to help us,” and so that has been something that they’ve done over the last several years. And so that is how I made the connection. They have a chaplain who’s really into it. He’s What you’d called orange pilled, and then Mother Cecilia, she gets it too. She’s the mother superior of the Abbey. And so that’s how I found out about it.
Eric Sammons:
By the way, I thought it was a wonderful evangelization effort by you as well, because your podcast is obviously not about Catholic stuff. It’s about just financial advice and things like that. But yet in the podcast, it was just a great witness to these beautiful sisters. So I encourage people to listen to that because people who are listening to your podcasts aren’t necessarily Catholic even, but they get to hear this witness. Now, who did you interview for the podcast? Was it the mother superior?
Andy Flattery:
I interviewed Mother Cecilia, and I had this sense that she’s sort of the spokesperson and really, it’s hard to really interview any of them, so it was a blessing to be able to speak with her, and she was terrific. But what really happened was when I went up there with that sort of background, I was just completely inspired by just being around these remarkable sisters. I mean, even just the look of it is totally opposite of what we expect to see out of women in our culture, and I don’t know if I’d ever really seen a traditional nun in the habit in that sense.
So they exhibit simplicity and joy in everything that they do, and I think that was part of Sister Wilhelmina’s character. And I wanted to make an effort to bring my whole family up, and my wife said the same thing. It really is an inspiring thing to make a pilgrimage up there. And I would recommend anyone that has a chance to, do it. They should, especially with this news now.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah. Okay, so how large is the order? Do you know about how many sisters there are there?
Andy Flattery:
I want to say there’s something like 48 sisters, because they’re maxed out of this abbey in Gower. They’re actually building another one in southern Missouri right now because they’re at capacity. I think it’s like 48 or something like that.
Eric Sammons:
Okay. And from what you could see, was it mostly younger women who are sisters in it?
Andy Flattery:
It’s hard to see. They’re wearing the habit.
Eric Sammons:
It’s true.
Andy Flattery:
It very much looks like it’s young women, 20-something women, I think. Mother Cecilia is probably still in her 30s and she’s the mother superior.
Eric Sammons:
Oh, wow.
Andy Flattery:
At least that’s what she looks like.
Eric Sammons:
Right.
Andy Flattery:
We chatted with a family that had flown in on Sunday from Virginia, and it was a woman who herself wasn’t very old, but her daughter was being sworn into the order and they traveled across the country just to visit Sister Wilhelmina on Sunday. So that’s my perception of it.
Eric Sammons:
Okay. And I will say it’s kind of funny you said that because when you see these beautiful nuns in their habits and stuff, they are kind of ageless. You can kind of tell, but really a woman could be 60 and she looks like she’s in her 30s or something like that. And so yeah, it is wonderful when you see.
Okay, so let’s talk a little bit then about visiting recently. Now, first of all, just for people who might not understand, what it means when Catholics say a body’s incorrupt is typically, and this has happened in the past, what happens is a body gets exhumed for some reason, maybe it’s being transferred to another location or whatever the case may be. And instead of the normal decay that a body would go through, a dead body, a corpse goes through, where typically after four years, you’re basically just going to be bones. What would happen is that on some level, the body’s incorrupt. And this can be different for each situation. Sometimes it’s just the hand is incorrupt or some part of the body. Sometimes it’s the whole body. And it doesn’t mean that the body is in perfect condition like it was alive, it just means that the natural processes of corruption did not happen, at least not as they should have.
And so this is often seen as a sign by Catholics when this happens of a sign from God that this person’s life was, in some sense, one to emulate. Because as Catholics, we believe that sin corrupts and sin brings about death. And of course, the best example of a truly incorrupt body would be the blessed Virgin Mary because she was assumed in heaven, body and soul. But there’s a little bit of that in any of these incorrupt bodies because it’s kind of like a way of saying this person wasn’t as corrupted by sin as the rest of us at the very least. So I just wanted to give that primer for people who are listening so we understand.
Now you visited after and I understand, in fact, I have some pictures I want to pull up here. For those who are listening… Hold on a second, I got to do something here. Those who are listening will just have to bear with us. So there is a picture of her body. You can tell, obviously, this is a person who’s passed away, but this does not look like a body that’s 4 years in the grave. And if I understand it, actually there was a crack or something in her tomb, and so it should have been even worse because air and things like that would’ve corrupted it even faster. Now let me pull up another one here. This is a picture I just found online. Now, that first one I showed, this one, did you take this one?
Andy Flattery:
No, that was my sister-in-law, Maria. I want to give credit to her.
Eric Sammons:
Okay.
Andy Flattery:
She took this. I’m one of these people that’s too cool to take pictures and then I leave, I’m like, “Man, I should have taken some pictures,” but yeah, credit to my sister-in-law.
Eric Sammons:
That one’s a very good picture. And this is one of her that the sisters released, I believe, of them around her body. And this is the one you put up on Twitter and on this one, is that your family there or is that some other family?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, that was another pilgrim from Lawrence, Kansas that we were chatting with, but that’s me kneeling and my son Henry, who I made sure to put his hand on the body of Sister as well too, which, by the way, was amazed me. I couldn’t believe that they were allowing us to do that.
Eric Sammons:
I know.
Andy Flattery:
Which I think is part of the reason why you might have noticed they put a wax coating on her skin, which I think is maybe some sort of best practice or something like that.
Eric Sammons:
Right.
Andy Flattery:
That was one of the questions that I had. But yeah, long line of people just coming up to be able to pray and put their hands on what I think is probably a saint at this point.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, well God thinks that.
Andy Flattery:
Yeah.
Eric Sammons:
I think I just read, before we went on, I believe on May 29th, they’re going to move the body then into a glass case. So you’re going to be one of the few people, because only people until then are the ones who could actually touch her body, because I just don’t think you can do that permanently for obvious reasons. So this one, that’s you in the picture, correct?
Andy Flattery:
That’s me and my son Henry. My wife was able to come up too and place a rosary on the body of Sister.
Eric Sammons:
Oh wow, that’s great.
Andy Flattery:
It’s remarkable. I’m told that those are the clothes that she was buried in and the socks are immaculately preserved, which is one of the things that the sisters were most amazed about. If you look at the picture of her face, the shape of her eyeball is still there. And I’m told that one of the sisters, this is a little grotesque, but I think that’s kind of the point, actually peered in and glanced to see that the whites of the eyes were still there, and indeed they were, which is remarkable.
And she’s just out in the aisle sitting next to the faithful out in the open, as you can see here. Just like this. There’s a balcony right above this image that you can sit in, and my two boys, ages four and two, were sitting during mass on the rails of the balcony looking out over the body of Sister Wilhelmina, and one of the amazing things about it is my wife remarked that that is as good as they’ve ever been in mass, and they really were. We’re not Latin mass people. I’ve probably been to maybe 10 Latin masses my entire life. We go to the so-called Novus Ordo and indeed, taking my kids to the Latin mass for the first time, they were so well-behaved. Sitting above this incorrupt sister in the balcony of the church was really cool.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, so tell us a little bit more. So first of all, how old’s your son, the one who touched her?
Andy Flattery:
He’s two.
Eric Sammons:
He’s two. Okay. The thing is, you’re going to tell him about that and that’s just going to be a big deal, obviously, for his entire life. And then you say your wife put a rosary on her?
Andy Flattery:
That’s right. Yeah.
Eric Sammons:
I mean, that’s now a third class relic, of course,
Andy Flattery:
Right, I think so.
Eric Sammons:
Well, technically she’s not a saint, but it will be a third class relic.
Andy Flattery:
I think so, yeah.
Eric Sammons:
Okay. So tell us just a little bit about while you were there, the atmosphere, who was there, what was going on when you were there?
Andy Flattery:
The place was full, but it was very peaceful. I saw license plates from all over the country. There’s not a huge parking lot or anything like that like you see it in a lot of churches. In fact, a couple of the paths to get up to the church are just dirt paths. There’s no big entranceway, so many of the people were just congregated out in the yard outside the church, just speaking with each other, congregating, kids playing, that sort of thing. So it was very, very peaceful. And my understanding is that’s picked up over the last couple of days now that it’s getting more media attention.
But yeah, I mean you had cars. As I was driving up from Kansas City, there was a line of cars that I’m behind to get out there. There’s cars parked on the gravel road out in the country, but it very much is out in the country. It’s a bit of a hike to get to, and you have all stripes. It was certainly what you’d call, I suppose, the Latin mass crowd with the women in veils and the mantillas. But I think probably 90% of the families that we saw there, I think I saw one or two that I knew from Kansas City, but there’s a lot of faces, I think, were just traveling from all over, but under age 40. Young families, young people under age 40.
By the time I was there on Sunday, I think it was still pretty much all word of mouth. It hadn’t really gone to the media yet. It was just sort of a whisper network of people finding out about this. Very peaceful, very exciting, and I think just a lot of faithful pilgrims that were coming to try to see an incorruptible for maybe the only time in their life. I don’t know how many American incorruptibles there are, but certainly to potentially sit next to and touch a Black Catholic saint who did great things in her life and now is an incorruptible, it’s awesome.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, I believe I read she’s the first African American to be incorruptible.
Andy Flattery:
Okay.
Eric Sammons:
And I just think part of the amazing story about her is that she was born in 1925 or ’20 or something like that, 1920s. So she experienced America before desegregation really had kicked in. I mean, St. Louis would’ve been a border town in a sense, I would guess. And I believe I read somewhere that she definitely experienced discrimination when she was younger, but she didn’t become bitter from it. She didn’t become angry or anything like that. She just offered it up.
And so in today’s world where there’s a lot of race baiting and things like that, I just think there’s a message there too that this beautiful African American woman who experienced racism, actual racism, back in when she was younger, she was still able to just maintain her faith in God and love for others. And I think that’s another beautiful message. Obviously didn’t meet every one of the sisters. You said the sisters come from other countries as well. Is there any other African Americans, do you know, in the order or any other country, anything like that?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, I don’t know exactly, but there are darker-skinned sisters in the congregation. I don’t know exactly where they come from, if it’s St Louis or if it’s somewhere else, but yeah, it really is a really remarkable story for that community. What I read was the history there was St. Louis has French Catholic origins. In the late 18th century, there was slavery that came to that city, and Sister Wilhelmina had an ancestor that was a slave working for a French Catholic, and this ancestor of hers converted to Catholicism. And there was a quote in the book about how when that happened, the owner of this ancestor said, “I have to free you because for me to keep you in slavery is like keeping Christ in slavery.” So she comes from many generations of Catholics.
So yeah, like you mentioned, and she grew up experiencing prejudice, both from Blacks who said that she was going to the white church, from people in the church that didn’t support the ministry to the Blacks. I think there was some Jesuits that, to their credit, were doing a great job of ministering to the Blacks and creating a lot of… So Sister Wilhelmina’s mother created something like 100 converts in her life. She’s from a remarkable family in that regard.
But one of the striking things about what she said was that yes, she saw prejudice in her life, but she also didn’t think the answer was to change the faith for the Blacks. She protested the idea of an African American liturgy. After Vatican II, I think she tried to use gospel in the mass, gospel music, which is what she was instructed to do. She later ditched it and said, “That’s not going to make more people show up to mass and be reverent,” and went back to the Gregorian chant. So yeah, it’s a wonderful testament there.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, it really is. I’m very struck by this story, I admit, because it just seems to be God’s way of sending us a message that we need to hear on multiple fronts. I mean, that’s the thing is she, being African American, loving the traditional Latin mass, all these different fronts, being a nun, all that. So now the sisters, I don’t think we ever covered, I just want to make sure we understand. They obviously have this music that they produce. What is their actual charism? Are they cloistered? Do they have an active ministry? What is their charism?
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, I think the idea is they call it the Abbey of Ephesus and they’re modeled after Mary when she was living with the apostles after Christ was risen. And so they pray for priests, I believe they make vestments for priests and their charism is in support of priests. And so I think that is part of the authentic femininity that they display as part of their charism is that they’re there to pray for these men. And that’s another very beautiful thing that’s sort of counterculture to the modern world.
Eric Sammons:
And very much needed. I mean, we have a crisis of vocations of course in the church and so few people responding to it. So the fact that they’re praying for… And priests are under such serious attack today. Their prayers, I’m sure, are very powerful.
Okay, so is there anything else that we need to know, that we haven’t covered about these sisters, about Sister Phil… I almost said Philomena. Sister Wilhelmina, or anything else you about them that we need to know?
Andy Flattery:
There probably is, and I’m maybe missing it at this point, but I posted a few things on Twitter and I knew exactly what some of the response was going to be there. There’s going to be some people that see the headlines here or see this in the media and they’re just immediately going to think that it’s bizarre and that they’re not going to have any sort of belief in this and just think that we’re bizarre for having any sort of faith in this story. And I would say I totally understand that. Part of the reason for my belief is I am Catholic and I recognize that we have this heritage in our Catholic Church of the incorruptibles, but also knowing her story as one who lived a saintly life and then having my own experience of traveling to the monastery, seeing the faith of these sisters and seeing the body of the incorrupt Sister Wilhelmina is the reason for my belief.
And I know there’s some people that it’s too weird and too bizarre and too morbid, but that’s sort of the point for me. It’s kind of the Flannery O’Connor thing about the medieval grotesque or whatever it was that she gravitated towards with Catholicism. To me, this is sort of a link to our medieval Catholic heritage. I think it’s a big deal for American Catholicism that we have a traditional nun who wore the traditional habit, went to the Latin mass, was an advocate for the Gregorian chant, and now she’s an incorruptible. It’s a link to our past. Personally, I don’t have any personal connection to something like that in my American Catholic tradition. So that’s what makes me very excited.
Eric Sammons:
That’s beautiful, because I think you’re right that obviously America does not have a very deep Catholic history. I mean, that’s just the way things are. And there are a few examples like the North American Martyrs and some others, but really we don’t have that deep tradition, that connection to the old world, so to speak, as much as maybe we should. And I agree, this is a connection to that. And I remember as a Protestant, I would’ve thought this was super weird and just like, “Oh my gosh, those Catholics are doing that.” And there’s a lot of maybe good intention Catholics who kind of want to lean away from this stuff because they don’t want to offend Protestants or non-Catholics. I say we lean into it.
Andy Flattery:
Yes.
Eric Sammons:
Because I think when you look at the whole perspective of all Catholicism, this is part of the incarnational nature of our faith, that God became man in order that we might be like him. And so our bodies are very important. In fact, that’s one of the things the incorruptible is pointing to is that we will receive our bodies again one day, either in heaven or hell. You’re going to get your body back. And so the idea of the resurrected body, that we get our bodies back, this is a sign pointed… Obviously the Blessed Virgin’s the biggest sign of that outside of Christ himself, of course, but these incorruptibles are another sign of that, that, “Hey, your body, it’s part of who you are. It’s important.”
And so I think all of those things… It’s a way of God just showing his favor. That yes, this woman was a woman after his own heart and he rewarded that, and so it’s beautiful. So I’m going to put links to everything. I feel like I wrote a bunch of stuff down. Can you mention her biography again? I think you had it there. What is it called?
Andy Flattery:
I bet this is on their website. I bought it when I was there, but it’s called God’s Will: the Life and Works of Sister Mary Wilhelmina, Foundress of the Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles. And yeah, it’s beautifully done. I think people should read this book to get the backstory, which is going to bring home the idea as to why she is, I think, probably a saint.
Eric Sammons:
I bought the book yesterday off of their website. They said it will be available at the earliest mid-June. I can imagine they’ve sold out very quickly and they’re rushing to print some more, but I bought it. It was like 20 bucks or something and you cannot find it on Amazon. I looked there just to see. I wasn’t going to buy it there because they don’t want to buy it from Amazon, but the point is that at their website, which I will link to, you can buy it, but obviously I’m sure there’s a back order at this point of people buying it because everybody wants to read it.
So yeah, I’ll put a link to that. I’ll put a link to the sister’s website, a link to the podcast where you interviewed them, because I think that’s a great basis for understanding their order and all this other stuff. I’ll put it all in there. So thank you Andy, very much for coming on. I appreciate this. I think it’s just a great story. I just hope we can help a little bit to get the message of what’s happening there out to the world.
Andy Flattery:
Yeah, praise be to God.
Eric Sammons:
Yeah, so God bless you and until next time, God love you, and Sister Wilhelmina, Pray for us.