Islamophobia-phobia and the Rotherham Rapes

“Prelate rues rising Islamophobia in wake of Islamic State atrocities.”

The headline caught my eye. It seems that Auxiliary Bishop Denis Madden, who chairs the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, has expressed concern that “Islamophobia in America is on the rise” in the wake of atrocities committed by ISIS in Iraq.

That seems to me to be an odd way to react to the atrocities. Islamists slaughter Christians and the first thought of a Catholic bishop is to protect Muslims from Islamophobia? It’s a good example of giving a lesser value precedence over a greater value. The lesser value in this case is protecting Muslims from the threat of Islamophobia, and the greater value is protecting Christians from being killed.

The bishop asserted that the rise of Islamophobia is “tragic.” There’s little evidence that Islamophobia—“an irrational fear of Islam”—is on the rise, but even if it were, “tragic” doesn’t seem quite the right word. Perhaps the bishop meant to say “disturbing” or “alarming.” The fate of the Christians and Yazidis in Iraq who were enslaved, slaughtered, and beheaded could justly be called a tragic fate, but it diminishes their ordeal to equate their sufferings with those of a Muslim in Dearborn who opens the morning paper and discovers that the incidence of Islamophobia has risen 5 percent since 2001.

Islamophobia a tragedy? It can be argued that the creation of the concept of Islamophobia in the 1990s has had far more tragic consequences than the thing itself. That is, fear of being thought Islamophobic has resulted in a kind of societal paralysis in the face of evil. An appalling example of this paralysis is the recent revelation that, in the course of the last fifteen years, 1,400 girls in the English city of Rotherham were drugged, raped, and traded by Pakistani gangs while police, city authorities, and child protection agencies looked the other way.

Why did they turn a blind eye? In a word, “Islamophobia-phobia.” They were afraid of being thought Islamophobic. They certainly knew what was happening. The gang members would drive up to the children’s homes run by the child protection agencies, select the ones they wanted, and drive off with them. However, according to the official inquiry report, police, council officers, and child protection officers feared they would be accused of “racism” and “Islamophobia” if they focused on crimes committed by Pakistanis.

Here again we have a case of the secondary value triumphing over the primary value. Isn’t the protection of children a more important value than the protection of an abstraction such as “diversity” or “multiculturalism”? Apparently not when your livelihood and reputation are on the line. The people who knew about the crimes were fully aware that in today’s Orwellian England an accusation of racism or Islamophobia could bring ostracism and an end to their careers. For example, a researcher who tried to blow the whistle on the scandal to the Rotherham Council in 2001 reveals that she was warned that she “must never refer to Asian men” and was sent to “a two-day ethnicity and diversity course to raise my awareness of ethnic issues.”

It wasn’t fear of Islam that ruined the lives of 1,400 children in Rotherham, it was fear of offending the guardians of political correctness and multicultural etiquette. As Robert Spencer points out, an alliance of British leftists and Islamic supremacists had created a true climate of fear in the UK:

The Muslim rape gangs went unreported, unprosecuted, and in general unstopped because of far-left organizations like Hope Not Hate, Faith Matters, and Tell Mama, which raged relentless war against anyone and everyone who spoke about these issues. They demonized as “Islamophobic,” “hateful,” and “bigoted” anyone who said that there were Muslim rape gangs at all, and that they had to be stopped.

Archbishop Madden ought to ponder the Rotherham tragedy because the climate of fear which made it possible also exists here. American law enforcement agents already know that they must tread lightly around the sensibilities of Muslims. The average citizen knows it as well. The people who do speak out about appeasement of Islamist demands soon find themselves the targets of well-organized smear campaigns. The Southern Poverty Law Center automatically labels all counter-jihad organizations as hate groups, and the leftist Center for American Progress, which is funded by George Soros, has “exposed” Islamist critics in a 130-page report entitled Fear Inc. The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America. Those who worry excessively about Islamophobia will be relieved to know that the well-funded Soros group is already on the case. Their booklet lists the individuals and organizations that are “amplifying fear and misinformation in this Islamophobic echo chamber.”

The leftist-Islamist campaign to silence critics of Islam has been a spectacular success. It can be compared to the gay activist campaign to stifle criticism of the gay lifestyle. Everyone from actors to politicians to corporate executives knows that if they criticize the gay agenda in any way, they will be accused of homophobia and will be lucky to hold on to their careers.

The Islamophobia campaign was, in fact, modeled on the homophobia campaign, and like that other campaign, it was designed to portray Muslims as victims of hatred and bigotry. Like the homophobia campaign, it was intended to put a muzzle on the critics of Islam. Although these “hateful” critics are supposed to have created a climate of fear, the irony is that it’s the “Islamophobes” on the Fear Inc. list who regularly receive hate mail and death threats and have been forced to hire bodyguards.

Meanwhile, our intelligence agencies have been hamstrung out of fear of offending Muslims, investigations into possible Muslim Brotherhood penetration of the government have been blocked for fear of offending Muslims, and the New York Police Department’s surveillance of radical mosques has been suspended for fear of offending Muslims.

After 9/11, the watchword was “If you see something, say something,” but fear of Islamophobia has created a climate in which people are tempted to look the other way if they see a Muslim acting suspiciously. Here’s a case in point. In 2008, five Muslims were convicted of a jihad plot to enter Fort Dix Army Base and kill as many as they could. How did the feds find out about the plot? A clerk in a Circuit City store told them that two men had asked him to convert a videotape to DVD. On the tape were images of men firing automatic weapons and shouting “Allahu akbar.” The clerk hesitated to do anything at first, but after mulling it over, he finally asked a coworker: “Dude, I just saw some really weird s—. I don’t know what to do. Should I call someone or is that being racist?”

Of course, a similar fear of being thought Islamophobic enabled Major Nidal Hasan to carry out the massacre of fourteen people at Fort Hood in 2009. Several of his fellow officers and superior officers were aware of his jihadist sympathies, but none of them spoke up for fear of being thought bigoted.

The word “phobia” refers to an irrational fear. The claustrophobic may feel that the walls of the elevator are closing in on him, but in reality, he is perfectly safe. The premise of the gay activist movement is that society has nothing to fear from the spread of the gay agenda. In reality, they say, it will create a more just and tolerant society. Thus, anyone who opposes it is the victim of an unreasonable delusion—a homophobe.

The Islamophobia campaign works in the same way. The people who promote it—leftists on the one hand and Muslim activist groups on the other—are intent on creating a radically different social order. Although the end result envisioned by Islamist groups such as CAIR, ISNA, and MPAC is quite different from that envisioned by the Center for American Progress, both are temporarily willing to work together. Their ostensible aim is to counter irrational fears about Islam, but it’s beginning to look as though their real purpose is to prevent ordinary people from entertaining rational and well-founded fears. At one time, training materials used by the FBI and the Defense Department drew a connection between jihad and Islamic doctrine. That was perfectly rational because such a connection does, in fact, exist. In compliance with the demands of Islamic groups, however, the materials—thousands of pages’ worth—were purged lest Muslims be offended. But, of course, the defense and intelligence agencies weren’t worried about offending the average Muslim in the street, they were worried about offending high-powered and well-connected pressure groups. Likewise, based on his bizarre behavior, it would have been perfectly rational for the Army to dismiss Major Nidal Hasan from service and deny him access to army bases. On the other hand, whatever justified fears they had about Hasan, his fellow officers also had entirely rational fears about being accused of “racism” and “Islamophobia” had they reported him.

And how about Rotherham? At the first sign of exploitation, the decent, rational, responsible reaction would have been swift action to expose the perpetrators and bring them to justice. But, thanks in large part to the relentless Islamophobia campaign, England today is not a sane, normal, or responsible society. And so the officials of Rotherham let the problem grow and fester for a decade and a half.

The USCCB—especially the Interreligious Affairs Committee—has closely allied itself with the very Islamist groups that play the Islamophobia card whenever it looks like the normal, rational response to Islamist cultural aggression might assert itself. Moreover, the Islamist contention that the only thing we have to fear is fear of Islam seems to have rubbed off on some of the bishops. On two occasions, bishops rescinded speaking invitations to Robert Spencer, who has been described by Fr. C.J. McCloskey as “perhaps the foremost Catholic expert on Islam in our country.” It’s probably no coincidence that Spencer figures prominently on the Fear Inc. list of fear-mongering Islamophobes. The irrational fear theme also figures in Archbishop Madden’s USCCB blog. He ends it with the reminder that “Fear destroys everything it touches.” Indeed it does. Fear of being thought Islamophobic destroyed the normal protective response in the people who ran the Rotherham child protective services. The archbishop and other bishops involved in dialogue need to ask themselves if they want to serve as an echo chamber for the groups who are creating a similar climate of fear here in the U.S.

William Kilpatrick

By

William Kilpatrick taught for many years at Boston College. He is the author of several books about cultural and religious issues, including Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right From Wrong; and Christianity, Islam and Atheism: The Struggle for the Soul of the West and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Jihad. His articles have appeared in numerous publications, including Catholic World Report, National Catholic Register, Aleteia, Saint Austin Review, Investor’s Business Daily, and First Things. His work is supported in part by the Shillman Foundation. For more on his work and writings, visit his website, turningpointproject.com

  • Trazymarch

    I am sure many answers/knowledge can be found in Herbert Marcuse works. Father of the “New Left”, progressives, prominent thinker of the Frankfurt School and neomarxist. Even glance at wikipedia entry of him gives a lot of think about. E.g. he coined term “reppresive tolerance” . “In his contribution, Marcuse argues that the ideal of tolerance belongs
    to a liberal, democratic tradition that has become exhausted. Liberal
    society is based on a form of domination so subtle that the majority
    accept and even will their servitude. Marcuse believes that under such
    conditions tolerance as traditionally understood serves the cause of
    domination and that a new kind of tolerance is therefore needed:
    tolerance of the Left, subversion, and revolutionary violence, combined
    with intolerance of the Right, existing institutions, and opposition to socialism” Does it sound familiar? (especially last sentence)

    • DE-173

      So familiar it that it is the sort of familliarity that breeds contempt.

    • musicacre

      Yes, and this is in huge detail in the book The Cloning of the American Mind.

      • Trazymarch

        Hmm.. isn’t this book more generally about education?

        • musicacre

          Yes, in a way but it has all the scoop on the Frankfurt school and all that implies…and is not education the key? The young people/our children are the hope for the future, are they not? It’s all about de-educating and using propaganda in its place.

      • DE-173

        Do you mean The Closing of the American Mind by Bloom?

        • musicacre

          Nope. The title is Cloning of the American Mind: Eradicating Morality Through Education by B.K. Eakman. A very good, detailed read. You can get it on Amazon.

          • DE-173

            Thanks. I have however committed to doing as little business as I can with Amazon, due to Bezos’ activism in redefining marriage.

  • ForChristAlone

    Word is out on the streets of Dearborn that radical Islamists are planning to attack all Catholic bishop attending the USCCB General Assembly meeting in Baltimore, MD sometime during the period of Nov 9 through November 15. How will our bishops respond? Will they be “phobic” or will they follow the path of the Savior and other bishops like Cornelius and Cyprian whose memorial we celebrated yesterday? If our bishops are not tainted with the phobia they see as afflicting others, I would suggest that they move their November meeting to someplace nice like eastern Syria or western Iraq.

    • jacobum

      How about Mosul? Understand they have a nice dam and plenty of oil nearby.

      • ForChristAlone

        Let’s book those flights.

        They might hold some information sessions with the local Eastern Rite Bishops and ask McCarrick to moderate the “dialogue.”

  • Objectivetruth

    I have to ask what is the role of the Interreligious Affairs Committee of the USCCB. Is it to approach Muslims with a mushy “I’m OK, you’re OK” attitude? Or are we to teach all nations, and to evangelize that Jesus Christ is Lord? Christ tells us that if “you are lukewarm about Me, I will vomit you out.” Islam is a Catholic heresy, this erroneous faith must be charitably corrected on its teachings. By being spineless on this issue, we give great dishonor to the Chaldean Catholics recently martyred in Iraq at the hands of ISIS who refused to deny Christ and convert to The falseness of Islam. May the bishops look to them for example.

    Stand tall and have great joy! The conversation with other faiths starts with “Jesus Christ is Lord.” This is a true act of love.

    • Michael Paterson-Seymour

      We can only evangelise through dialogue. Now, the goal of dialogue is increased understanding of myself and others.

      For this, we must listen with a view toward understanding, not of countering what we hear.

      We must listen for strengths, so as to affirm and learn, not for weaknesses so as to discount and devalue.

      We must concentrate on others’ words and feelings and we must accept others’ experiences as real and valid for them; not criticise them as distorted or invalid.

      We must share our own experience and invite others to share it – “This happened to me, when Jesus came into my life and it can happen to you, too.” That is really the whole of our message.

      • Objectivetruth

        Agreed, but…..

        The “dialogue” today is that Islam = Catholicism as far as legitimacy, and it does not. When St. Francis entered in to “dialogue” with the Muslim sultan Malik al Kamil, Francis steeled himself for possible martyrdom because of the Truths of Christ he was going to lead with in his discussions with the sultan. Francis gave him Christ. The real Christ. Blessed Teresa of Calcutta was once asked was it the food or medical aid that she gave the poor in India that caused the conversion of so many Hindus and Muslims? She replied “No, I gave them Christ.”

      • TERRY

        This sounds good, but it is not unreasonable to ask the muslim rape squads to take a break as one of the conditions of having a ‘dialogue’.

        • GG

          I would laugh at the absurdity of your question, but honestly I think too many would actually think it reasonable.

        • jacobum

          Maybe if we asked them really nice…say in an iambic pentameter prose dialogue? Wasn’t Mohammed a poet? Maybe that would work?

          • tom

            Let’s offer them the girls from Trinity where the likes of Pelosi and Sebelius grow into what they’ve become, as a peace offering?

      • GG

        What? How patronizing. Why on earth would an intelligent person affirm lies? Just because one experiences something and misperceives reality does not mean we ought to confirm those errors.

        • Objectivetruth

          When Peter pulled Christ aside to chastise Him to be careful, what He was saying was controversial and could upset the folks. Christ firmly (and probably angrily) corrected him and told Peter to get behind Him, calling St, Pete “Satan.”

          • GG

            Yes, I am not interested in the “feelings” of those who hold and outlandish view of reality. There used to be a colloquial phrase: “heresy of feelings”.

      • s;vbkr0boc,klos;

        The central concern of WWII (or at Lepanto for that matter) were not to convince Nazis and Islamic supremacists of ANYTHING. Brute, Satanic will to power maddened with lust is not amenable to your methods.

        • Fred

          The USCCB web site is actually one I go to daily for the readings and reflections. Quite ironically, Fr. Thomas Weinandy spoke about this in a tangential way just on Friday. He spoke of his recent travel to Istanbul and seeing the ancient church Hagia Sophia, and then Topkapi Palace where Mohammed’s sword is on display. He eloquently contrasted how Christ calls us to love one another and died for our sins on the Cross with the image of the other who slaughtered people he thought infidels with his mighty sword. That’s not a defense of what our Bishops are doing. Also, as much as I love and miss him, I still can’t quite understand why JPII kissed the way he did and showed the reverence the way he did. I have to assume that God called him to some higher purpose for doing that – which I don’t understand. I know nobody wants to poke a hornet’s nest with a sharp stick, but enabling never produces positive results except in the short term.

          • DE-173

            Once again, JPII also kissed airport runways.

            • Fred

              I’ve been on some flights where it has occurred to me to do that too, but I confess I never did. However, the other has never occurred to me. Did he kiss his would be assassin Mehmet Ali Ağca too, or just forgive him – I can’t remember.

              • DE-173

                Does it matter?

                • Fred

                  Maybe only in judging the depth of sincerity in the forgiveness, you know, a kiss being the highest intimate outward sign one can give another. Still I wonder, why would he while I would not (back to “the book” thing) – surely it was more than to just appease to keep the peace. I don’t get it. I’m happy I guess that they at least have some reverence for Jesus and Mary which is more than most seem to here at home, but happy feelings is not what following Christ is all about except maybe in parts of CA.

                  • DE-173

                    Well, it seems to have not been injurious to the state of his soul, so why belabor it?

                    “I guess that they at least have some reverence for Jesus and Mary”

                    Calling the Son of God a prophet subordinate to a man with the most intemperate of appetites is a false reverence.

        • Objectivetruth

          “Evil spreads when good men do nothing”

      • Mary Rainey

        There is only one truth, I don’t care what the other guy thinks is “valid” for him.

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          But, as Bl John Henry Newman explains, “Our notions of things are never simply commensurate with the things themselves; they are aspects of them, more or less exact.”

          He adds, “Hence in science we sometimes use a definition or a formula, not as exact, but as being sufficient for our purpose, for working out certain conclusions, for a practical approximation, the error being small, till a certain point is reached. This is what in theological investigations I should call an economy”

          Again, “our notion of a thing may be only partially faithful to the original; it may be in excess of the thing, or it may represent it incompletely, and, in consequence, it may serve for it, it may stand for it, only to a certain point, in certain cases, but no further. After that point is reached, the notion and the thing part company; and then the notion, if still used as the representative of the thing, will work out conclusions, not inconsistent with itself, but with the thing to which it no longer corresponds.”

          • JP

            Now your just spraying us with BS. Muslims get their points across very easily – usually though a bullet to the head.

            • DE-173

              Lately, they seem to be going back to their roots-the sword.

              Another MPS special. A haughty citation of a quote that is irrelevant to the issue at hand. At least this time, he’s not quoting an 18th century French politician.

              • ForChristAlone

                All he does is dump quotes from others on this site. It’s one thing to explicate your ideas with some brief authoritative quotes; it’s another thing to substitute another’s ideas for one’s own (presuming that one has some thoughts). MPS never reveals himself and, besides, I’m wary of hypenateds

                • slainte

                  ForChristAlone,

                  Through his writings, MPS has demonstrated a formidable intellect, the fruits of which he freely and generously shares with others through respectful dialogue on this and other sites.

                  I am grateful for his observations regarding Catholicism and its impact on current global events just as I am grateful for your and DE-173’s valuable insights. Your collective participation enlightens many.

                  On the issue of Islam, we can respond by dialogue or the sword. My preference is for the former….until and unless the latter becomes inevitable. I don’t want innocent blood shed needlessly and I pray fervently for persecuted Christians wherever they may be.

                  • DE-173

                    Slainte:

                    His intellect isn’t at issue here, rather his tendency to buttress his arguments with (often tedious and obtuse) quotes from 18th century France, many which are at best tangentially related to the matter at issue. It leads one to believe that he has a library that’s a mile deep and interests that are an inch wide.

                    Nobody wants the blood of innocents, but Isis is not innocent. ISIS has precluded dialogue, they have announced their intentions and they are pursuing them vigorously. Do you think there is reasoning with people that record their savagery? There comes a point when something is so vile, so noxious and so virulent, it must be exterminated. We won’t do that however, because the CoC is silly and stpid man, who is more willing to deal with a foreign terrorist than a domestic political opponent.

                    Islam is rather good at nuturing groups that are imperious and martial. Al Queda, Hamas, The Muslim Brotherhood, Abu Sayeff…for that matter, do you really think CAIR won’t become more and more militant.

                    The world is full of conflict, and most of the worst involve Muslims not playing well with others. How long do we hold out hope that it will respond to some internal or external impetus to change?

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Slainte, De:

                      Here’s the Catechism’s justification for war (just war theory). I believe all conditions are met concerning armed aggression against ISIS:

                      “In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:

                      “1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

                      2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

                      3. there must be serious prospects of success;

                      4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition” [CCC 2309].”

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Also…..

                      Remember, Pope Pius V outfitted 12 galley ships to fight against the Ottoman’s at Lepanto.

                    • DE-173

                      1.) 14 centuries of conquest, conflict and tyranny and oppression.

                      2.) 14 centuries of.. you got it the first time.

                      3.) Not with the present regime, who will hamstring us by regarding the response as a police action and a war. A decent CinC would use overwhelming force.

                      4.) Once again, Obama and Co. regarding the aggression as criminality is likely to produce a lasting and low grade conflict that just keeps two populations at conflict. Such things condition populations to accepting low grade war as normal.
                      Talk to me when we have regime change. We seem to have not learned the lesson of 9/11, which to borrow the official report showed that it is possible to be at war with recognizing or acknowledging it.

                    • slainte

                      ObjectiveTruth, DE, and ForChristAlone,

                      As you probably know, Islamic populations have grown exponentially in English and French cities while native European populations are aging and dying off without benefit of progeny. Young Moslems refuse to integrate into European cultures and this constitutes the new normal; promotion of Moslem religious and cultural traditions is commonplace and are a direct challenge to Christianity. Radicalized Moslem youth have engaged violence in response to minority religious groups (ie., Jews) with whom they disagree.

                      In my opinion, MPS provides an accurate read about the aforementioned European dilemma which compels Moslems, Christians, and secularists situated in Europe to
                      engage in dialogue, not merely to evangelize the Faith, but to promote and ensure the physical safety and well being of Europe’s inner city residents. If dialogue fails, peace between disparate groups will be compromised and devolve into bloody clashes between Moslem populations and native Europeans. This must not happen.

                      We have been privy to the August 2014 reports of Jewish synagogues and businesses in Paris being attacked by radicalized Moslem youth; events which are eerily reminiscent of Kristallnacht.

                      In a multi-cultural and diverse Europe, it is just not possible to know with certainty the identity of the enemy. The sword is therefore not a viable option; it must give way to dialogue lest bloodshed in the streets result.

                      Whether Europe will be able to retain its Christian tradition and identity is just not certain. I am glad that I live in the U.S where the issues confronting Europeans are not our reality…yet.

                      Those of us who are Americans do not fully understand what Christians in Europe and the middle east are confronting. For that reason, we should reserve judgment and not reach for the sword unless we have no other alternative..

                    • ForChristAlone

                      But Slainte, is there precedent for Islamists to enter into dialogue?. If so, I’ve yet to hear about it. I would love to be proven wrong but the evidence mounts daily to prove otherwise.

                      You write: “Whether Europe will be able to retain its Christian tradition and identity is just not certain.” I think this is an unwarranted assumption. My impression is that most Europeans disavow any identity as Christians – notwithstanding what they call their political parties. So, even if the Islamists were to engage in dialogue, there really is no one to represent Western Christianity in Europe.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Pope emeritus Benedict XVI tried to engage in dialogue at Regensburg, to no avail.

                    • slainte

                      FCA, perhaps Spain’s al andalus tradition of convivencia among Muslims, Christians, and Jews is a form of dialogue which fosters peaceful co-existence among those of different faiths.

                      Dialogue is not limited merely to speaking with others; it also includes leading by example through respectful interaction with those with whom one may entertain substantive differences and disagreements.

                      As MPS has stated elsewhere, it requires carefully listening to others, without condemnation, to understand their concerns.

                      Dialogue requires men and women of great integrity to build trust and to dispel the seeds which give rise to violence.

                      To reject violence is to reject the prince of darkness who thrives on dividing God’s peoples.

                    • Desert Sun Art

                      Where is the integrity of ISIS, Hamas, etc? You say dialogue requires integrity, but it must come from both sides.

                    • slainte

                      Desert Sun, there are reasonable men and women within each tradition. We must find them within the Muslim world and engage them.

                      ISIS and Hamas will eventually die by the very sword they raise against others. We shouldn’t buy into offensive violence but we should deter the aggressor without animus.

                      Division of peoples is the time honored tool of Satan to separate us from God…let us not cooperate with his dark arts.

                    • Desert Sun Art

                      To defend those being attacked by dark forces is not cooperating with Satan in “his dark arts”. Not doing anything is cooperating with Satan. Groups like ISIS need to be neutralized some how or other now- dialogue with reasonable men and women is fine, but in the meantime, more innocent people die.

                      I really do take issue with your implication that ALL violence is evil and unnecessary. I do not think Jesus was an utter pacifist. There is a difference between unprovoked and provoked violence, and between offense and defense of those in need.

                    • slainte

                      If you can identify the enemy who has perpetrated violence against another or yourself, then retaliate against him.

                      If you cannot identify the enemy because he looks, dresses, and acts like every other member of his community, and you have not observed him engaging in violence against another, then how do you identify the person (member of ISIS) against whom you wish to retaliate?

                      Do you really advocate arbitrarily dropping bombs on villages of men, women, and children on the off chance a member of ISIS might be killed?

                      These are the uncomfortable facts about modern, unconventional warfare and the difficulty in accurately identifying enemy combatants.

                    • Desert Sun Art

                      I am NOT speaking of retaliation. But defense. They are not the same thing. Nor have I said anything about dropping bombs. There are those whose job it is to come up with ways of making it so that an enemy is no longer a threat. Why that would be considered war-mongering is beyond me. It is defense against unjust aggression. The world can not sit by and let this continue. Dialogue is fine if everyone is reasonable- ISIS et.al. does not appear to be.

                    • slainte

                      If you can identify with certainty one who perpetrates violence against you or another, defend yourself and/or your neighbor.

                      If you cannot identify the one who has perpetrated violence against you or another, how does one respond to an unknown combatant who may shield himself by blending into a community?

                      It is the latter category that causes me to advocate for intense dialogue before engaging defensively.

                      Commentator ObjectiveTruth referenced a military response to ISIS which included bombing…hence my reference to retaliation etc.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      No, Slainte, we do know and understand what Christians (specifically Chaldean Catholics) are facing in the Middle East. And it’s GENOCIDE, from ISIS. I believe we’ll find out the genocidal crimes of ISIS will mirror those of the Jewish Holocaust and Rwanda.

                      See the link below on the slaughter by ISIS of Catholics. Steel yourself, it’s quite graphic, but sometimes the truth is very ugly. Read the whole thing, then tell me how you propose to “dialogue” with them? We want to dialogue……they want us dead, preferably by decapitation:

                      http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56339

                    • slainte

                      ObjectiveTruth,

                      For we wrestle not
                      against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
                      against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
                      wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

                      It is the prince of darkness who sows division among peoples seeking to know and worship God. It is this dark spirit who causes men and women to smite each other. To defeat that darkness, we must intentionally turn away from violence (turn the other cheek) and seek peace, through dialogue, in Christ’s name.

                      To do this, we should pray that Our Lord Jesus grants us the providential guidance of his beloved mother Our Lady to restore peace among all peoples.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Slainte, Pope Pius V called for rosaries to our Mother but at the same time outfitted war galleys for the Holy League to stop cold the Ottoman Empire. He knew dialogue had been exhausted with the Sultan Suleyman I. The Holy Father prayed to the Blessed Mother for victory at Lepanto, not that the Sultan would come to his senses and change his mind.

                      Sometimes Slainte good men must take up arms to defend against those on the side of Satan who wish to destroy Christ and His holy Church. No one wants war, but we are called to defend the innocent being slaughtered by evil. This is Catholic doctrine. Catholic men such as Don Juan, Jan Sobieski, the Knights of Malta knew this, and thank God for all of us they did. Even Catholic US General George Patton knew the only way to stop the evil of Hitler and Naziism was to destroy the German army.

                    • slainte

                      But OT…we have not exhausted dialogue.

                      I hope that Pope Francis dialogues with Muslim clerics of good will as did Saint Francis.

                      Peace with the Muslim peoples would be a wonderful legacy for our Holy Father.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      I’m speaking specifically of ISIS. They’re very clear: convert to Islam or die. Chaldean Catholics are being massacred. I believe they date their conversion all the way back to the evangelist St. Mark, almost 400 years before Irish like you and I received the Good News. These Catholics must be defended and saved.

                      And the cynical part of me must ask: 1400 years of dialogue with Islam, and there are still 1.4 billion Muslims on the planet. Cynically speaking, we try and evangelize with them that Jesus Christ is Lord, they react that we should die. It’s another conversation, but we do view God differently. Our God of Abraham is “Father”, their God of Abraham (through the bastard slave son, Ismael), is “Master.” Therefore, outside of peace treaties with the Muslims, our faiths will only collide. Yes, there is some common ground on the blessed Mother, but by its very heretical nature, Islam will never declare Jesus is Lord. And because this is an affront to the master Allah (as one Muslim told me, Allah would never come to earth to be executed on a cross.), you are an infidel that must die. These are core differences.

                    • slainte

                      I don’t suggest that we Catholics and Muslims worship the same God. But we both agree that Satan is the power lurking in this world that seeks to conquer the people of God through division and violence.

                      Our Pope Francis must appeal to the cooler heads within the Muslim world to drive home this point in the name of Our Blessed Mother Mary who is respected by all parties to this dispute.

                      Muslim leadership is the best vehicle to restrain ISIS and Hamas, not Catholic, Jewish, or secular forces.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      So at best, dialogue with Muslims is to agree to disagree, but to do it peacefully.

                      But Christ does not call us to dialogue. He calls us to radical evangelization. To preach all nations, telling them of the Good News. I mentioned that concerning St. Francis in another post. He prepared himself for possible martyrdom before meeting with Malik. But Francis was there to convert the emperor, not to discuss a peace treaty.

                      The question therefore is, Slainte: how do we do the same? Are we here to seek peace……or tell them of the cause of our joy, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

                    • slainte

                      We convert hearts and minds through dialogue and by example…just as Jesus gently did when he invited those without sin to cast the first stone against the adulteress.

                      “…“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves…” Matthew 10:16

                    • Objectivetruth

                      “We convert hearts and minds through dialogue and by example…just as Jesus gently did when he invited those without sin to cast the first stone against the adulteress.”

                      I recall Neville Chamberlain saying something similar at the time he signed the Munich Agreement in 1938, conceding most of Czechoslovakia to Hitler.

                      I know what you’re saying, Slainte, and I pray for peace every day….

                      …….but if Islamic terrorists were knocking on my door asking for me to bring my wife and children outside (which is exactly happening in Iraq), their day is going to end poorly, not mine. They’ll be meeting Jesus that day before I or my family will! Christ gave me my family for me to protect, not to be slaughtered. I’ll look to St. Joseph as example, protecting the Holy Family from slaughter by running to Egypt. He relied on God….and God told Him to take action.

                    • slainte

                      You would be justified OT in defending your family against an identifiable enemy who sought to visit violence upon your wife and children. Your proportionate response would be a just one, in my opinion.

                      The anonymity of the enemy is a troubling feature of the conflict with the Muslim world with which we must contend. If violence must be employed when diplomacy has been exhausted, it should be employed with surgical precision on an identified target to avoid slaughtering innocents.

                      Our Lord and His Blessed Mother would expect no less of us.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      And Christ was not shy in grabbing a big, wooden staff and cracking the skulls of money changers in the Temple.

                    • slainte

                      The money changers were easily identifiable and justice was meted out by Jesus’ striking at them directly with proportionate force.

                      We do not know which persons comprise ISIS or Hamas. Justice does not permit Catholics to shoot blindly into a crowd of people hoping that we might actually kill one or more members of a radicalized group of Muslims.

                      The resolution to this conflict is more nuanced than employing weapons arbitrarily.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      “Muslim leadership is the best vehicle to restrain ISIS ”

                      Disagree. ISIS is already killing many Muslims that disagree with their brand of Islam. ISIS is Islamic terrorism, pure and simple. And they must be stopped before they started ramming airliners into crowded American skyscrapers.

                      This ones fairly straight forward for me, Slainte: ISIS is as close to evil on earth as we’ve seen in our lifetime. Looking at the horrific pictures of Iraqi Catholics being beheaded and crucified, one can concluded there is full on demonic possession at play here. Exorcism is needed. But they are intent on killing Americans on US soil, and I for one take their word for it. Before there’s a mass shooting and beheadings at your local mall on a crowded Saturday at Christmas, these guys must be defeated by force, now.

                    • slainte

                      Unless members of ISIS are wearing uniforms that read “ISIS”, retaliatory violence will end up killing innocent Muslims who are not part of the radicalized JIHAD. The killing of innocents will engender hatred from their families and rightly so…as this will constitute an act of grave injustice that is not consistent with Catholicism.

                      Recall the problems encountered by the U.S during the Vietnam Conflict when our soldiers could not identify the enemy because the VietCong looked and dressed just like the South Vietnamese. Let us not make the same mistake with the Muslims. We do not want the blood of innocents on our hands.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Actually, I give our modern military more credit than that.

                      And what of the innocent Chaldean Catholics being executed every day for not converting to Islam? Do we ignore these innocents, and politely ask ISIS to please stop beheading them, hoping they’ll come to their senses?

                      Like I posted before, ISIS has said they want to kill Pope Francis. And so far, they’ve practiced what they preach. Remember, they’re cutting the heads off of three year old girls. Killing the pope’s no big deal to them. What do we do then, if you turn on the news in the morning and find out Pope Francis has been murdered?

                    • slainte

                      Who comprises ISIS?…what are the names of its members?

                      How do we retaliate against a group of people we cannot even name or identify in a crowd of assembled people? This is the dilemma we face.

                      Against whom do we raise the sword and how do we know when we achieve victory?

                    • Objectivetruth

                      I’m no military tactician, Slainte, but the US has already had 150 bombing missions against ISIS and I think they’re pretty darn sure they’re hitting the bad guys. Apparently ISIS is advancing like any army, not a guerrilla group. They are very well organized, and targeting them has apparently been pretty clear.

                      I don’t like war or killing anymore than you do, Slainte. I agree that every possible means of avoiding it should be exhausted. But ISIS is hell bent on killing innocent Christians, killing the pope, attacking US soil. Rumour has it that they might have already slaughtered 200,000 innocent Chaldean Catholics, that’s genocide. And sins of omission include not doing anything to defend or save those people. And we’ll be judged by Christ Himself for ignoring and not helping “the least of our brothers and sisters.” It’s a corporeal work of mercy, in my opinion. I’m reminded of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta’s five finger gospel: by not helping the poor, the marginalized, and yes…..those being beheaded for their Catholic faith, “You Did It To Me.” We can dialogue all we want, but it’s one sided, they’re not listening. They’re just crucifying and beheading innocent people. Even US Generals are shocked, saying the world has never seen such barbarism.

                    • slainte

                      A culture war cannot be won by drones dropping bombs on villages.

                      Only through converting hearts and minds will peace be realized.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      I agree….

                      We all must live the faith, lives of saints.

                      The greater evil displayed by ISIS, the greater imitation of Christ we must show.

                      But for right now, innocent people must be defended.

                    • Desert Sun Art

                      They don’t want to know and worship God- they DO NOT worship the same God we do. We are not talking about divisions among Christians, we are talking about good vs. evil here.
                      And when Our Lord spoke of turning the other cheek, I take he meant it on an individual level. If you want to turn your own cheek fine, but do not turn the cheeks of others who are innocent and helpless. They need defending. ISIS does not want dialogue- they will not listen to Christ. Also, turning the other cheek is not only about non-violence, but about not backing down in our convictions.
                      Example: someone slaps you on the face for your beliefs. You don’t hit back, nor do you apologize for your beliefs. You turn your cheek IN DEFIANCE of your persecutor, holding your head up.

                    • slainte

                      Violence begets violence. Before we raise the sword against another, let us exhaust the possibility of peaceful resolution.

                      While dialogue may not be feasible with radicalized Muslim foot soldiers…it is possible among less impassioned and more reasonable Muslim, Catholic, and Jewish leaders who command respect in their communities and are better able to defuse the irrational passions of the radicals.

                      We need effective leadership….I hope Pope Francis will lead Catholic diplomacy

                    • Desert Sun Art

                      See my response below. The idea that physical fighting of any sort is NEVER to be allowed for Christians is absurd.
                      If I was in Syria and captured and about to be murdered like the journalists, I would forgive my captors and die if it was God’s will. But it is not my place to let others be persecuted if I was in a position to help.

                    • slainte

                      Just war is permitted by the Catholic Church but its requirements are onerous to meet…rightly so.

                      If you are attacked, defend yourself and your family in a proportionate manner against your attacker.

                      It is not always possible to identify who is a member of the radicalized Muslim groups engaged in perpetrating violence against Christians. For this reason, we should avoid imprecise and indiscriminate retaliatory violence against Muslims in general. We accomplish nothing by killing innocent Muslims.

                    • slainte

                      The revolutions of the 18th century were creatures of Enlightenment ideologies and continue to profoundly influence current day events while challenging the Faith.

                      Cardinal Newman, a prelate frequently quoted by MPS, identified and rejected enlightenment liberalism as inimical to Chrisitanity. His position was very much at odds with his colleagues at Oxford but was part of his faith journey which caused him to convert from Anglicanism to Catholicism and put him on the path to sainthood..

                      I learn a great deal from dusty quotes of long ago prelates of England and France. : )

                  • ForChristAlone

                    Slainte, there you go providing us with a brief, logical and personal reflection on what appears here – and done without any inclusion of a quote from anyone else. I was wondering where you had gone since I always look forward to your thoughts.

                    Also, don’t get me wrong as I think that the breadth and depth of his knowledge is formidable. I just get a bit impatient wading through what sometime seems to me like endless and arcane quotes but no contribution of his own..

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Slainte can tell you to go to hell in a hand basket in such a sweet, poetic, lilting Irish way that you won’t realize it till 20 minutes later, and one ends up thanking her! That’s a gift I wished I possessed…but I’ll try and make due with my own sledge hammer approach.

                • DE-173

                  Well said.

          • Jim O’Neill

            You shall know them by their fruits. What is the “fruit” of ISIS in Iraq? Dead Christians.

          • slainte

            But biblical Revelation makes crystal clear what Christ actually said on one very specific issue:

            “…Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

            “Our notions”, which are subjective in nature, must be aligned with objective truth.

            • Michael Paterson-Seymour

              Bl John Henry Newman draws an important distinction (one that runs through all his works) between Revelation and theology.

              “Theological dogmas are propositions expressive of the judgments, which the mind forms, or the impressions which it receives, of Revealed Truth. Revelation sets before it certain supernatural facts and actions, beings and principles; these make a certain impression or image upon it; and this impression spontaneously, or even necessarily, becomes the subject of reflection on the part of the mind itself, which proceeds to investigate it, and to draw it forth in successive and distinct sentences.”

              More generally, he says that “All things in the exterior world are unit and individual, and are nothing else; but the mind not only contemplates those unit realities, as they exist, but has the gift, by an act of creation, of bringing before it abstractions and generalizations, which have no existence, no counterpart, out of it.”

              Thus, Becky, lying at my feet at this moment, is something real, “unit and individual” that I can see and feel; “dog” is a notion or idea, abstract not concrete, existing in our minds and nowhere else, useful for discourse, rather than “true” (or “false”); it has “no existence, no counterpart” outside the mind or minds that conceive it.

              • slainte

                But who is responsible for creating me?…and then gracing me with an unquenchable desire to know more about Him?

                I would suggest that He (the Creator) exists independently of me. He has permitted me to know Him, albeit imperfectly, through a glass half dark and clouded by the taint of original sin, yet I know that He is greater than I and that His existence does not cease when my soul departs this earth. He exceeds me, in all respects, and is objective, while I am subjective.

                And yet for some unknown reason He created me, and you, out of nothing and gave us the breath of life by sharing His own breath.

                When I look into the eyes of other people, I recognize intelligence and something more….a sense of divinity… even among those filled with anger. We are more than just ourselves MPS…we share in His divinity because He willed it to be.

                And yes I recognize that my argument in response to Blessed Newman’ observations is circular…based on a sensory and thus subjective response to external stimuli..all of which is dependent on me being able to perceive the stimuli and respond to it. Yet I also recognize that I didn’t make the flowers or the grass or other people or the rainbow after a summer shower…He who did is external to my ability to perceive these things.

                Do you surmise, MPS, that the mind is part of the soul?

                • Michael Paterson-Seymour

                  I am cautious in using the word “mind,” withits unfortunate Cartesian overtones.

                  Of course, I agree that memory, intellect and will are powers or faculties of the soul..

                  Bl John Henry Newman has an interesting speculation, which is close to your idea, “What are the phenomena of the external world, but a divine mode of conveying to the mind the realities of existence, individuality, and the influence of being on being, the best possible, though beguiling the imagination of most men with a harmless but unfounded belief in matter as distinct from the impressions on their senses? This at least is the opinion of some philosophers…”

                  • slainte

                    MPS, you should consider writing a piece for Crisis. Your ability to convey abstract philosophical, theological, and legal concepts in a straightforward and persuasive manner is a gift.

                    Your commentary over at The American Catholic particularly in response to Bonchamps’ “Brace Yourself: the Dark Enlightenment is Upon Us” was riveting and well received. http://the-american-catholic.com/2014/01/29/brace-yourselves-the-dark-enlightenment-is-upon-us/

                    Take notice Crisis editor. : )

      • DE-173

        We can not have “dialogue” when every criticism of Islam is met with charges of “Islamophobia”, which is a vapid an inane leftwing neologism.

        Similarly It’s kind of difficult to “share our own experience”, or engage in another discourse when a group is dedicated to your destruction.

        Madden is another individual with Northeastern Pennsylvania roots that is an utter embarassment, if that statement is representative of his view.

      • BillinJax

        Dialog is the answer?

        We Catholics have a lot of dialoging to do just trying to convince our own pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, change our thinking and get relevant to the new age secular world we now live in that they are being misguided and
        forsaking the faith. That is the true mission of the church at this time as our (few) good shepherds are struggling to keep the sheep from wandering off into the darkness of modern ideology and technology.

        As for other religions outside of the “one body of Christ” all we or any of the bishops have to say to them or attempt to communicate to them is a compassionate invitation to lay aside their errant ways and accept the one true God and savior Jesus Christ, welcome aboard the pilgrimage all
        willing to join us, and be vigilant in protecting the faithful from the deceit and lies which had or is holding them captive and shielded them from the light of Christ.

      • JP

        Muslims do dialogue. Their means of communications are IEDs, AK-47s, RPGs, and pipe bombs.

        • jacobum

          For sure. They are a bit more boisterous than most. “Political Correctness” is not their issue.

      • Jim O’Neill

        How do you dialogue with someone who wants to live by 7th century values? That have names that mean Western Education is evil? We invited these people to share our own experience when they emigrated from their Muslim country. Their own religion teaches them not to cooperate or tolerate other faiths. How do you dialogue with someone hell-bent on killing you?

        • ForChristAlone

          You’re being far too logical here.

          • DE-173

            We’re in a logic free time, aren’t we?

        • RufusChoate

          I don’t think Islam follows 7th century values. It is far more primitive and Pre-Christian.

          7th Century Christians just didn’t behave as Islam did in the 7th Century.

        • jacobum

          Ya know there is always a killjoy in the crowd. Ya just can’t resist messing things up by using your intelligence and common sense. You need more “dialogue and diversity training”. How impatient. It’s only been 1300+ years of empirical proof that Islam wants/is called to kill all non muslims.

        • Trazymarch

          “How do you dialogue with someone who wants to live by 7th century values?” I wouldn’t say time is good indicator of the value of … values. Just because time passes by doesn’t automatically means that our values get better. I agree with rest of what did you write.

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          In part, by appealing to rival interpretations within their own tradition.

          Take the celebrated 9th century Sufi mystic, Bayazid Bastami, known as “one “of the six bright stars in the firmament of the Prophet” and whose shrine at Chittagong is a place of pilgrimage to this day. When asked, “How does Islam view other religions?” His reply was “All are vehicles and a path to God’s Divine Presence.”

          • Kathryn

            “All are vehicles and a path to God’s Divine Presence.”

            .
            But that, too, is heresy. There is only One Way and One Truth and One Light, and that is Jesus the Christ. There is no other way to Heaven. And despite her many problems, the Catholic Church (Eastern and Western branches) is the only true Church.

            • Michael Paterson-Seymour

              True enough. But when Muslims claim that theirs is the only true religion, we can refute them out of the mouths of their own sages.

              • slainte

                We can also affirm what we share in common with Muslims as people of God.

                Muslims honor and revere Our Blessed Mother. I have heard that some Muslims enter Catholic Churches to pay respect to Our Lady as the mother of the prophet Jesus.

                Our Lady is also the channel through which Jesus acquired His Jewishness and, as a Jewish woman, Mary is respected among her own people.

                As Catholics, we believe that we may reach Jesus, through the intercession of His beloved Mother, whom he honored from the cross. To Jesus, through Mary.

                I suspect that Our Blessed Mother, is the answer to a peaceful resolution of the conflict dividing Muslims, Catholics, and Jews.

                May she intercede for her children here on earth to crush the head of the powers and principalities which sow division among God’s peoples. Blessed be her name.

              • Sufis are generally persecuted within Islam, certainly by Sunnis and sometimes by Shiites, although the latter tend to band together against Sunnis. I argue Sunni and Shia Islam are representative of what Islam is, their differences notwithstanding. Yes, there are less aggressive sub-camps, but the basic Islamic belief on the nature of God is enough to scare me. His utter monotheism makes him a wicked slave master, not an all-good and loving Father (and indeed, Trinity). And even less aggressive Muslims still hold to items like polygamy that rightfully offend us because Our Lord preached against them.

      • jacobum

        “Dialogue” is just another excuse for doing nothing. Talk is always cheaper than actions. Must have missed that scripture passage about “go out and dialogue”., All of Vat2 is really just one big excuse to surrender to evil and the world i/n/o ecumenism, religious liberty, collegiality and pastoral care. Vat2 weapon of choice is “dialogue”. It’s sounds so well intentioned and meaningful. Truly a load of self delusional baloney 95%+ of the time. “Dialogue” is the neutron bomb of the Conciliar Catholic Church. The blast of hot air leaves the buildings standing but everything/everyone else is dead.

      • The_Monk

        Have to disagree about evangelizing only through dialogue. That is one way, but example (check out St. Francis) may be more important. The actions of the Muslim world speak bloody volumes….

      • BillinJax

        When we pray “…thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” who is it that we depend upon to accomplish His will on our world and nation if not the “body of Christ”.When the sheep are lost or threatened the shepherds have been taught to go to whatever lengths needed to find and protect them from harm and the enemies who wish (vow) to devour them. Pope Francis understands this realizing a militant force is, in the case of the outright savagery of ISIS and its determined Jihad, the most potent “dialog” the freedom loving Christian world has at its disposal as a proper response for maintaining peace among the nations of the earth. And he wasted no time in
        sanctioning same!
        That should be all a faithful Catholic needs to position his thinking in this discussion.

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          Do we have any reason to trust the political judgment of churchmen?

          I shall watch with interest the response of nations outside the Middle East, like Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

          • BillinJax

            Churchmen? Like the Pope? As always, he can only plead for us and all the nations to do what is right and just for God’s people and the world we have as his gift. It is then for any of us to do the work for him committed to the task.

      • Dialogue with Islam is impossible, as their view of God is so vastly different from the Christian revelation, meaning that one cannot intelligently discuss questions related to his existence. Dr. Scott Hahn gave a talk, available on Youtube from the Franciscan University channel, on this very subject. He was supposed to lead a forum with an imam, who backed out because the way Dr. Hahn referred to God, in reverent but ordinary ways for Catholics discussing the faith, offended him.

    • jacobum

      That’s easy. The IAC of the USCCB promotes indifferentism through dialogue and delusion. Everyone is congenial. They agree to disagree. In the meantime nothing happens but it’s a great excuse to have lovely meals and meetings with good cheer for all. We must remember that the USCCB is located in Washington D.C. which is aka “50 square miles surrounded by reality”. There location is duly noted and appropriate. The only thing we never seem to hear much about from the USCCB is “Saving Souls”.

  • Michael Paterson-Seymour

    I suggest that Muslim journalist, Yasmin Alibhai Brown was right, when she wrote, “I can imagine what the talk will be among Asians in Rotherham today. Good people of course will feel shame. Lots, however, will not, and instead will blame the system or the victims – young girls from disadvantaged backgrounds who were lured with cheap gifts and false affection. Such children are seen as trash, low life, by their rapists as well as the authorities, including the police…. I partly blame their families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls, and demean their daughters-in-law. Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it’s OK to take their girls and ruin them further. Some of the most fierce rows I have ever had have been with Asian women who hold these disgusting views.”

    We do not need to look further than patriarchy, misogyny, gender discrimination and gender segregation to explain Rotherham and these are by no means the exclusive preserve of Muslims – they are deeply embedded in white working-class culture, too.

    • Objectivetruth

      “We do not need to look further than patriarchy, misogyny, gender discrimination and gender segregation to explain Rotherham and these are by no means the exclusive preserve of Muslims – they are deeply embedded in white working-class culture, too.”

      Great……turn the discussion in to those bad white guys and “the war on women.”

      I’ll show this post of yours to one of the (many) female VP’s in my company. They always like a good laugh.

      • Michael Paterson-Seymour

        A “war on women,” in which women are themselves complicit – “Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls, and demean their daughters-in-law…” Ever heard of false consciousness?

        • DE-173

          Do you actually know any Asians or is this your crass version of racial prejudice, wrapped in relativism?

          • badgarden

            Actually, having lived in Japan for a year, I agree that boys are more highly valued than are girls. In the first 3 months of living there, my host sister had 2 abortions.
            I studied Asian cultures in college and the values are ripe for exploitation of females in all Asian countries. Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Taosim are male dominant religions where females are subservient. The same claim is tried on Christianity but continue to fall short especially when we show/prove how it is not.
            Also, look at the number of girls being aborted/abandoned in China and India. That should give you pause before you accuse someone of being “crass” or “prejudiced”. But, I see that you are just a Troll blind to the Truth.
            I hope this helps anyone who actually cares.

            • GG

              Uh huh, yea blaming the mothers of rape victims is very genuine.

            • DE-173

              “Also, look at the number of girls being aborted/abandoned in China and India. ”

              Uh, MPS isn’t in China or India. Aborting girls is not spoiling your boys.

              What truth am I blind to? That there’s a hellish disregard for women and girls in other parts of the world? What Bishop is decrying “Shintophobia”?
              No matter what they do in India or China, that’s NOT A DEFENSE of ISLAM.

              “I studied Asian cultures in college”
              When you assert that as a basis of authority, it betrays a certain paucity of independent judgment.
              Three comments and your first here-disjointed as it is- and you’re yelling “troll”. That’s really rich.

          • Michael Paterson-Seymour

            That was a quotation from Yasmin Alibhai Brown, a Muslim lady of Ugandan Asian origin

            As for myself, my mother was a friend of the Begum Aga Khan and we spent many a pleasant afternoon in the family’s company at race meetings at Longchamps.

            • DE-173

              “That was a quotation from Yasmin Alibhai Brown, a Muslim lady of Ugandan Asian origin”

              You endorsed it.

            • RufusChoate

              The name was vaguely familiar so I looked her up. You are referring to a German who married a Muslim for the oldest reasons for marrying for an elderly leech: money. She isn’t a Muslim culturally or religiously.

              Begum Aga Khan is actually Gabriele Renate Homey. It is little wonder you had a pleasant afternoon with her. It is called breeding.

              • Michael Paterson-Seymour

                My mother’s friend was Begum Om Habibeh Aga Khan (néeYvonne Blanche Labrousse), the 4th wife of Sir Sultan Muhammed Shah, Aga Khan III. The whole family were perfectly charming

                It was a common belief among the Nizari Ismaili community that the Aga Khan (their Imam) was so holy that champagne turned to water on his lips.

                • slainte

                  “…Begum Om Habibeh Aga Khan (née Yvonne Blanche Labrousse), the 4th wife of Sir Sultan Muhammed Shah, Aga Khan III…”

                  I know I shouldn’t ask BUT…what happened to the Sultan’s first three wives?….polygamy?

                  • Michael Paterson-Seymour

                    Hello Slainté

                    His Highness’s second wife was Cleope Teresa Magliano, the mother of Prince Giuseppe Mahdi Khan (who died in infancy) and of Prince Aly Khan, the black sheep of the family who was passed over in the succession. She died in 1926.

                    His third marriage to Andrée Joséphine Carron, the mother of Prince Sarrudin Aga Khan (whom we knew) ended in divorce in 1943, but she remained an occasional member of his entourage. As for his first wife, a granddaughter of his grandfather, the first Aga Khan, I never heard what became of her.

                    My memories of the family go back to my schooldays in the 1950s, when I was 5 – 15 years old. It was in the mid-1950s that we also met HM King Farouk, the ci-devant King of Egypt and his companion, the Italian opera singer, Irma Capece Minutolo, when the Aga Khan’s entourage andwe were all staying at Le Negrsco in Nice. I remember King Farouk’s party included several house models of the House of Dior.

                    The notion of either the Aga Khan, an Imam who ostentatiously draped himself in British orders and decorations – Grand Cross of St Michael & St George, would you believe, as well as Grand Cross of the Star of India, the Royal Victorian Order (in the personal gift of the King Emperor) &c, &c – or King Farouk preaching violent Jihad or engaging in a scrupulous observance of Shari’a, I find, frankly, farcical.

                    • slainte

                      I visited Spain in 1998 and recall the splendor of Grenada and the Alhambra Palace; how the terrain of Al Andalus differed so dramatically from Madrid and Barcelona as it converged into a desert-like, almost middle eastern and Islamic appearance.

                      I recall the grandeur of the rock fortress which was the Alhambra and the Arabic script and designs adorning its walls, the interior courtyard with prized pools of water, and plentiful references to oranges which I believe were imported from Los Canarios. My sense was that I had left Europe and was in the Middle East or more precisely North Africa (Ceuta)…yet I was still in Catholic Spain.

                      The tour guide spoke of the miracle of the Convivienca equating it to a variation of the Pax Romana…a peace benevolently conveyed by kind Muslim Caliphs upon Christians and Jews alike. I don’t recall whether either group was subject to dhimmi status. She spoke of Cordoba and the participation of Jews and Christians in its commercial enterprises. Also referenced was the Caliphate and its ambition to spread Islam throughout the world.

                      So perhaps the Aga Khan might have enjoyed the Alhambra or Cordoba or being feted by a ruling Caliph.

                      I left Spain struck by how little I understood Islam and how culturally different Andalusia was from the northern regions of Spain despite being united for centuries under Catholic rule initiated by R. Isabel and R. Ferdinand.

                      Andalusia, through the flamenco and Segovia’s guitar instrumentals, preserves its Moorish past.

                    • Michael Paterson-Seymour

                      Moorish Spain was of course the conduit through which the works of Aristotle passed into the West in the 12 century.

                      Similarly, Sephardic Jews supplied the navigators of Genoa and Venice with translationsof Arabic almanacs (an Arabic word)

    • Rock St. Elvis

      Gee MPS, thanks for making the author’s point about Islamophobia-phobia.

      Meanwhile, why not tell us what the French did in 1798? It would be about as relevant and enlightening as your second paragraph.

      • DE-173

        He’s apparently at a new phase. Instead of quoting dead Frenchmen, he’s just concocts trite and inspid charges against people he doesn’t know “white working class” to support people he thinks he does know (Muslims).

    • TERRY

      We might also consider the fact that mohammed was married to a girl when she was 6 but since he was such a good guy he waited until she was 9 before he had sex with her.

      You want a War On Women?

      • Fred

        And that’s only the beginning … don’t forget the promise of beautiful virgins (of Rotherham?) in the afterlife awaiting to be defiled after they’ve achieved martyrdom on earth. What a lovely respect for those who carried them in their womb, nurtured and cared for them in their most dependent and helpless days, only to be treated like objects. I know those who hate Christ can’t wait until Sharia law becomes the law of the land.

      • DE-173

        Or better yet, a war on little girls.

    • DE-173

      “they are deeply embedded in white working-class culture, too.”

      How the hell would you know, barrister?

      • Objectivetruth

        One wonders if the closest contact he ever has with the “white working-class” is the gratuitous chit chat he might have with the valet as he hands him the keys to his Jag on his way in to reservations at Le Champlain’s in Quebec.

        • DE-173

          Talks more like Bentley driver. I’m sure his butler is named “Cheeves”.

      • Jilly

        I think a certain somebody manifests an irrational fear of white working-class people. What shall we call this phobia?

        • DE-173

          White: Leuko
          Work: Ergon
          Fear: Phobia
          Leukoergonophobia.

      • ForChristAlone

        If Scotland is smart, they’d vote “yes!”

        • slainte

          Slainte Alba! Free yourself from the English yoke.

          Recall the dreams of your native son William Wallace and those who gave their lives valiantly at the Battle of Culloden.

          You can stand on your own and succeed…take back your independence.

          • ForChristAlone

            Nice…I agree and I am half English!

            • slainte

              When I refer to England, I refer to the corrupt leadership of that nation through the centuries….Cromwell, Sir Charles Trevelyan, the Kings and Queens who systematically introduced the plantation system into Ireland to ensure that Catholics and Protestants would fight each other endlessly over conflicting religious issues in lieu of rebelling against the crown.

              I think of the English Parliament during An Gorta Mor (the Famine) which affirmatively committed genocide against persons whose sole crime was being Celtic (Irish) and Catholic.

              I think of the evictions of the native Irish who were unable to pay rents on lands confiscated from them because they refused to convert to protestantism.

              I think of Irish men, women, and children who starved to death while locally grown produce in Ireland was exported to England. I think of the mass graves in Counties Mayo and Sligo filled with the famine dead.

              I think of the Irish who were forced to emigrate in order to survive and those who arrived in Castle Garden (Manhattan, New York) in the steerage compartments of coffin ships and I recall those who died crossing the Atlantic of typhoid and yellow fever and are buried in mass graves in Grosse Isle, Canada. http://www.moytura.com/grosse-ile.htm

              I recall the Penal Laws and I cannot fathom how one nation could be so cruel to other nations.

              Scotland experienced the Highland Clearances, the Penal Laws, and the deportation of its priests post-Culloden.

              For all of the aforementioned reasons, I hope that Scotland grasps its freedom from England and that the Scots build a new and dynamic nation that honors God, affirms life, and pays homage to its brave ancestoral heritage.

              No personal offense is meant to you ForChristAlone or any individual English person. English working people were often victimized by the same rigid and unyielding class system promulgated by aristocratic elites.

              • ForChristAlone

                Slainte, I was not defending England. I had a great, great grandmother – Annie Smith – who came from Ireland on one of those coffin boats. I enter the 13th century church in England where others of my great grandparents are buried and bemoan the fact that this was the place where for 300 years Catholics worshipped before they had their faith stolen from them by a lustful king. I have seen the ‘priest holes’ in the homes of those who would not willingly relent to the suppression of the Holy Mass. Unfortunately, yesterday’s vote in Scotland did not go well at all.

                • slainte

                  ForChristAlone,

                  I wanted to clarify that my disdain for English leadership does not apply to English people or their progeny (including you).

                  I regret that some Scots lost their sense of self and as a nation chose to remain bound to a country whose leadership accords them little respect (except at election times) and secondary status.

                  I suspect what happened yesterday was rooted in fear of change and a failure to appreciate that as a people they (Scots) have the ability to go it alone on the world stage and succeed brilliantly.

      • Michael Paterson-Seymour

        They make up a fair proportion of the clientele of the High Court of Justiciary and the Sheriff Court, you know.

        • slainte

          As a working lawyer, you are a member of the working class.

          As am I.

    • ColdStanding

      This quote by the muslim journalist Brown is profoundly dishonest. “British Asian circles” is code for muslim. As far as we know, the problem in question is confined to Asian muslims not Asian Sikhs, Hindus, Janes, or Bhuddists, or Asian Christians for that matter. All of these non-muslim Asian groups are horrified to be lumped into the same group with the party that has the ideology that encouraged this in the first place.

    • GG

      Talk about deflection.

    • JP

      “I can imagine what the talk will be among Asians in Rotherham today.”

      Yes, Asians is now the term for Muslims when people like you wish to hide the true identity of the practitioners of Islam.

      “We do not need to look further than patriarchy, misogyny, gender
      discrimination and gender segregation to explain Rotherham and these are
      by no means the exclusive preserve of Muslims – they are deeply
      embedded in white working-class culture, too.”

      For the life of me I cannot remember reading about white working class men raping, sodomizing, and selling over a thousand 10-14 year old white girls to other men.

    • RufusChoate

      Really? Do the news reports that indicate that the wide spread use of these children as sexual slaves by a substantial majority of the Muslim Males in Rotherham have any substance?

      They have merely prosecuted the procurers not the rapists. Islam’s history of misogyny and sexual perversity goes back the conjurer of Islam himself. It is a politically tyrannical system pretending to be a religion.

      p.s . Asian is a duplicitous euphemism to conceal the fact that these are Pakistanis, whose moral degeneracy approximates the worse behavior of the Ottomans.

    • Bucky Inky

      “…patriarchy, misogyny, gender discrimination and gender segregation…”

      The indictment of these as the cause of what happened in Rotherham is not obvious, even in light of the Yasmin Alibhai Brown reference.

      Isn’t it easily demonstrable that patriarchal societies (those societies where the rule and interest of the father take precedence) show themselves as more interested in the protection of the women who are a part of them? What aspects of a partriarchal society were responsible for rape in Rotherham?

      Misogyny and gender discrimination are terms too vague (especially in our day) to understand what you are getting at. Men who choose to behave badly are going to behave as men behaving badly. That their choice of criminal behavior was to rape girls and young women does not mean that they had a particular hatred of females, just that their choice of criminal behavior reflected their natural inclinations as men, which is to have sex with young females. Forcibly to fulfill this desire by physical power or seduction is criminal and base, but is it misogyny that the rapists desired to have sex with young females, and therefore forced themselves exclusively upon them rather than also upon an equal amount of young men and boys? If they had forced young men and boys also, then I suppose either the charge of misogyny would be dropped or the charge would be expanded to general misanthropy? If I follow you reasoning in using the terms, it all gets very confusing.

      All said, how are we aided in our understanding of the matter by slapping the label of misogyny onto it?

      • Michael Paterson-Seymour

        Rape is not primarily about sex; it is about domination and control. Hence the high incidence of prison rapes, carried out by men who self-identify as heterosexual.

        • Bucky Inky

          Respectfully, even if you are right about the reason for rape (I concede that in my ignorance, you may very well be), still it does not explain particularizing the actions of these men by calling the actions misogyny. Whether their desire toward women is to dominate and control them, or simply to obtain sexual release by force, either of these are the expression of a natural disposition of a man toward a woman gone awry, which does not need anything more than the label of criminal, inordinate, sinful, etc. behavior.

          Or why are we not in the practice of calling certain Muslims’ beheading of men, misandry? It does, after all, appear to be the case that men are more often publicly beheaded than women.

          This is quite a departure from the main point of the article, yet I do value your thoughts on this, as well as the other points that I raised in my earlier comment, if you find it worthwhile to give them.

  • Bill Guentner

    Why are the bishops afraid of speaking the truth about Islam? The bishops wear red as a symbol that they are ready to die to defend the faith. If they cannot act in ways to defend the slaughter of Christians throughout the Middle East because of reactions of the Islamists, they should resign their posts.

    • jacobum

      O come on. Your talking about “fortitude” aka “moral courage in the face of adversity”. It’s one of the 7 Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Expecting that from the Bishops Corp over the last 50 years is like finding water in a desert. Now “dialogue” is another story. Both plentiful and empty simultaneously.

    • musicacre

      Alot of bishops caved a long time ago as far the true faith goes, and covered it up (made it look legitimate) by keeping busy with their mountains of administrative work. The true ones are also persecuted by the other false bishops. It’s time for all us adults to wake up to these facts instead of being in denial. I staked my childrens’ education (or rather shunning the “Catholic” schools…) on the fact that our bishop identified himself as a “feminist” early on in my marriage. We homeschooled so our children could retain their faith. And they did. Unfortunately that former bishop did not. I wonder how many kids were affected by his style of schooling which happened to be heavy on pantheism? They are adults now, and as far as I know very few of them that attended those schools go to church.

      • DE-173

        “Unfortunately that former bishop did not.”
        Through infamy or apostasy?

        • musicacre

          I would say infamy since everyone was well aware of what he was doing….

          • ColdStanding

            He is still around, you know. He was out and about on a book tour. Unrepentant as ever.

            Nor is he alone. One of the locally domiciled bishop emeritus is setting himself up as a spiritual director and he heartily endorses Scheelibeckx and Rahner. That man is very bitter at the Church.

            I am sure they know each other very well.

            • DE-173

              I feel alone in a crowded room, not being able to guess the identity…

              • ForChristAlone

                that’s because there are too many who fit the description

            • musicacre

              These men don’t care about the souls of their flock…so it really is an obvious case of wolf in shepherd’s clothing, which is worse than sheeps’ clothing.

      • Beth

        Thank you, Bill! My comments exactly to a then-priest, now-bishop about a year ago when I complained to him that the “Protecting God’s Children” drill that all volunteers must go through is disingenuous at best considering the intellectual and spiritual abuse foisted upon children over the past 50 years in “Catholic” school. It is thee basis for the disintegration of the faith in America. My heart aches for all those parents who TRUSTED the bishops, priests and nuns. My extended family–all of whom were educated in Catholic schools for 8 to 12 years–all, ALL, have left the faith.

        Homeschooling my own…

        • Objectivetruth

          “all of whom were educated in Catholic schools for 8 to 12 years–all, ALL, have left the faith.”

          So if they had been educated in public schools they would have stayed in the faith?

          There was an article in First Things discussing a study that the most important influence on a child’s Catholic faith is their father. Not schools, priests, nuns. Dear ol’ Dad. If the father lives the faith, the children will grow up to live the Catholic faith.

          • ForChristAlone

            Single greatest reason why so many have lost their Catholic faith: divorce and awarding full custody of children to the mother. Along with that, women’s predominance in parish life have driven men away because they don’t see other men involved and conclude that “Church” is a “women’s thing.” Definition of a healthy parish: equal number of men involved as women.

          • Beth

            I agree with you that fathers are key in the handing on of faith. The Church teaches that parents are the primary educators of their children. But at the same time, is there no blame to be laid at the feet of Catholic ‘educators’ that watered-down the faith? We went from actually learning the catechism to making felt banners and singing kumbaya! NO WONDER folks have left in droves? Is there no responsibility for those Catholic educators in the 70’s and 80’s that brought secular culture in our schools disdaining the Catholic culture of generations?

            I defend my dad. He and my mom trusted that the priests and nuns (so many of whom are NO LONGER priests and nuns) of our parish/diocese were leading us children in the way we should go. They trusted them–why should they have thought otherwise? Instead, we got optical illusions, the intimate details of ouiji boards, Alice’s Restaurant and “How do you feel about all this?”.

            And agree with you, too, ForChristAlone—the takeover of women in the the Church has done great damage.

        • DE-173

          Would you perhaps be in the Diocese of Scranton, perchance?

  • There is of course no such thing as “Islamophobia”. It’s a made up word, consciously invented to shut up any criticism or misgivings about the spread of Islam in the West.

    • GG

      It is a propaganda term.

      • mollysdad

        “Islamophobia” is a word made up by the Muslim Brotherhood to render the Arabic “sabb”. This refers to saying anything about Islam of which Muslims disapprove.

  • Fred

    Maybe the good bishop has another office in the government and is afraid of being singled out for scrutiny by the IRS for not speaking the politically correct truth that’s given to him from the imperial city.

    • ForChristAlone

      St. Cyprian pray for us

  • somnipod

    I read that ages ago (ie fifty years) there was pride to be in the only true church, without which there is no salvation.
    But I suppose that’s triumphalism, and teaching extra ecclesiam nulla salus is now solemn nonsense, and not “nice” enough in the newchurch.

    Pray for these weak feminized men running the Church Militant… I mean, the one church of many churches that, although it possesses the “fullness of truth” there is nothing superior to the protestant heresy… I mean brothers and sisters in Christ.

  • nopcspokenhere

    “Cardinal McCarrick disgraced his office and made a fool of himself at a press conference hosted by Muslims. At that conference he claimed, “Catholic social teaching is based on the dignity of the human person… [and] as you study the holy Koran, as you study Islam, basically, this is what Muhammad the prophet, peace be upon him, has been teaching.”

    This from Restore-DC-Catholicism.blogspot.com (more on this topic reported in recent days)
    What??????????????? a Cardinal praying muslim???? This kind of thinking and speaking is going to get us killed and it has. So from within and without we are under attack. The church and state is sorely lacking leadership and any good priest who speaks the truth is bundled off to hinterlands. God Help us!

    • DE-173

      McCarrick has exhibited signs of confusion for some time. The Diocese should see if he is in need of Arricept or Exelon.

      • jacobum

        “…signs of confusion for some time..”? How charitable.

        • DE-173

          I’m not being sarcastic. A person who has Alzheimers can have a disordered thought process that can sound perfectly reasonable until you realize that essential facts evade them.

          I had an Aunt with it, and throughout Thanksgiving Dinner, she was perfectly politite and amiable. After dinner, she asked my Mother, “how many children do you have?” and then resumed a polite discourse.

          It’s far more insidious and inobvious in the early stages than you might expect, because at that point, people still have the capacity to compensate.

          McCarrick might just be a garden variety relativist, or he might need to see a neurologist.

  • Gerjen

    Despite all the sentimental rhetoric to the contrary — such as pious nonsense about the similarities between these two faiths — Islam and Christianity are radically opposed over the most important thing of all: Jesus Christ, who commands us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, and to love our enemies, which does not mean mistaking them for friends. This is not to suggest that true friendship can’t exist between Muslims and Christians as individuals. But any concord based on lies, evasions, and partisan propaganda is false and should be rejected.

  • The instinct for self-preservation being such a powerful thing in the long run, isn’t some good healthy laughter all the response ideologues this out-of-touch deserve?

  • The face of evil is Islam. The rest of the supportive stooges will discover conciliation is the justification for their demise.

    • musicacre

      Yes think Chamberlain and his desire to make Hitler happy……

  • RufusChoate

    It is all so clear now that Bishop Madden has pointed to what the real danger of Islam is.

    It is clearly irrational to fear a 14 century old murderous covetous heretical creed which has conquered, enslaved, looted, murdered, raped and despoiled every civilization it came in contact with while it denies both the core tenets of your faith while appropriating the superstructure of Judaism and Christianity. In Islam, Christ is not God and Abraham is not a Jew. It more rational time such an opinion would have invited an examination by the Inquisition and a date with a pyrotechnic display if you failed to rectify the error.

    It is irrational if you are a spineless coward who only wishes for the praise of other spineless cowards pretending that they and Islam have more in common than what separates them.

  • mollysdad

    Islamophobia is not a tragedy. It is a sacred duty, because Islam is a religious error, and religious error is of an immoral nature.

  • RufusChoate

    Here a neat little set of statistics to consider:

    Rotherham Child Rape
    Population: 214,000
    Documented Victims : 1,400
    Duration: 15 Years.
    Government complicity Yes
    Religious Composition: Muslim
    Cultural Involvement: widespread and supported
    Cost in Lawsuits: $0.00.
    Public Blame: Public officials.

    Sexual Abuse Crisis – US
    Population: ~75 Million.
    Documented Victims: 1,205 (with about 300-400 considered not provable claims) Claimants paid.
    Duration: ~40 Years
    Government Complicity: No
    Religious Composition: Roman Catholic.
    Cultural Involvement: none except Gay Subculture a 80% to 85% of incidents.
    Cost in Lawsuits: ~1.7 Billion.
    Public Blame: Solely on the Catholic Church.

    • jacobum

      Not to worry. The “Masters of Dialogue” are on it.

  • ForChristAlone

    This article, in my opinion, has less to do with the menace that is Islam and more about the dereliction of duty by yet another one of our bishops. It always seems that those bishops most closely associated with the USCCB by the official positions they occupy are among those most given to getting involved in matters outside the purview of the episcopacy.

    Our American Catholic hierarchy needs some serious internal reform. It’s too bad that a few out of control bishops taint the reputation of the vast majority who are faithful, orthodox and seek only to be good shepherds.

  • James Stanley Aldrich

    The inmates have taken control of the asylum.

  • ForChristAlone

    Speaking of bishops, perhaps we can get an article here about the marginalization of Raymond Cardinal Burke by the Vatican. My guess is that Wuerl and Dolan have orchestrated his demise with the assent of Holy Father Francis.

  • Tom

    The lack of backbone and brain is alarming. S’more Cardinal Marshmallow at your service?

  • H. Reed Armstrong

    To put the subject of Islam in perspective, I have included below some sayings of the Saints through the ages regarding the subject.

    “Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet
    Muhammad.”

    -St. Peter Mavimenus (d. 8th century), martyr from Gaza. Response reported
    in the Martyriologum Romanum when he was asked to convert to Islam by a
    group of Muslims.

    “There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist…. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous
    compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration

    -St. John Damascene (d. 749),
    Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America.
    CUA Press. 1958. Pages 153-160.)

    “We profess Christ to be truly God and your prophet to be a precursor of the Antichrist and other profane doctrine.”

    -Sts. Habenitus, Jeremiah, Peter, Sabinian, Walabonsus, and Wistremundus (d. 851), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.

    “On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence
    of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible
    action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.”

    -St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Theologian and Doctor of the
    Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos,
    et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner’s Aquinas on
    Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks, and Armenians
    (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.)”

    As we have seen, Muhammed had neither supernatural miracles nor natural motives of reason to persuade those of his sect. As he lacked in everything, he took to bestial and
    barbaric means, which is the force of arms. Thus he introduced and promulgated his message with robberies, murders, and bloodshedding, destroying those who did not want to receive it, and with the same means his ministers conserve this today, until God
    placates his anger and destroys this pestilence from the earth.[…]

    (Muhammad) can also be figured for the
    dragon in the same Apocalypse which says that the dragon swept up a third of
    the stars and hurled down a third to earth. Although this line is more
    appropriately understood concerning the Antichrist, Mohammed was his
    precursor – the prophet of Satan,
    father of the sons of haughtiness.[…]

    Even if all the things contained in his law were fables in philosophy and errors in theology, even for those who do not possess the light of reason, the very manners (Islam) teaches are from a school of vicious bestialities. (Muhammad) did not prove his new sect with any motive, having neither supernatural miracles nor natural reasons, but
    solely the force of arms, violence, fictions, lies, and carnal license. It remains an impious, blasphemous, vicious cult, an innvention of the devil, and the direct way into the fires of hell. It does not even merit the name of being called a religion.”
    -St. Juan de Ribera (d.1611), Archbishop of Valencia, missionary to Spanish Muslims, and organizer of the Muslim expulsions of 1609 from Spain. Quoted in several locations from his 1599 Catechismo para la Instruccion de los Nuevos Convertidos de los Moros .

    “The Mahometan paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.”

    St. Alphonsus Liguori (d. 1787).
    Quoted from his book, The History of Heresies and their Refutation.

    • Objectivetruth

      Excellent.

  • Objectivetruth

    Article below how Pope Francis is being targeted by ISIS. We’re definitely past dialogue. And the mosques in Paris, London, New York remain silent:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/islamic-state-pope-being-targeted-by-isis-iraqi-ambassador-to-the-holy-see-warns-9736110.html

    • pluckers

      Please don’t be under any illusions about I.S.I.S. It was conceived by the said think tanks according to Great Game strategies that have been discussed in British ruling elite circles since the nineteenth century. The whole concept of Jihadism and Islamic extremism is an entirely bogus one whose purpose as an enduring myth in the public imagination is to justify otherwise illegal interventionist policies.

      Egyptians, Arabs, Syrians, Palestinians have no desire to be part of a medieval caliphate. The idea that such a reality holds appeal to these peoples is British/U.S./Israeli propaganda without basis in reality. Wahabism is a pseudo-Islam imposed by the Saud family according to instructions from the West to create a climate of fear and subservience in order to prevent the Gulf States peoples from overthrowing their corrupt rulers and constituting an equitable political framework that serves the common man. What Arab peoples want is the same as any people whose government is under proxy or de facto foreign occupation self-determination and a modern democratic constitution that serves the ordinary people. In truth it is Anglo-Saxon elites who are behind all ‘extremist’ movements preventing authentic democratic reforms taking place in the middle-east because as they very well know Arab self-determination will put an end to U.S. petrodollar hegemony and the NWO project.

  • This is all very interesting, but Crisis magazine suffers the same kind of problem that afflicts those who’ve succumbed to Islamophobia-phobia. Crisis mag suffers from antisemitism-phobia. While blaming Jews for everything is plain wrong, it should be obvious to all honest people that Jewish elites are among the biggest proponents and promoters of anti-white, anti-Western, and anti-Christian dogma, propaganda, and diatribes in America and the EU.

    True, Muslims–the bad one at any rate–do pose a threat to the future of Europe, but Muslims did not change immigration policy. Immigration policies in the US and EU were changed by Liberals and by Jewish elites. Muslims have almost no elite power in US and EU. Muslims may be the beneficiaries of open borders policies, but they are not the ones who formulated it and pushed it. Muslims are not the ones who control the academia and media and use them to burden the hearts and minds of white gentiles with ‘white guilt’.

    Also, it’s disingenuous to just blame the ‘left’ since not every group has equal power and representation in the Western Left. A much greater proportion of Jews are on the ‘left’ than among other groups. Many ‘leftist’ organizations are bankrolled by guys like George Soros and Mark Zuckerberg. And many professors who shape the minds of American elites of all color are Jews.
    The homo agenda has mainly been paid for by Jewish money on Wall Street, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley. Obama was discovered, groomed, and promoted by Jews, and he’s also been a useful tool for pushing the homo agenda.

    As for the Middle East, why is there this problem of ISIS to begin with? It’s because Zionists influenced Bush II to invade Iraq and turn that nation into hell on earth. When Iraq came under the power of the Shia majority, Zionists feared the ‘Shia crescent’ stretching from Iran to Iraq to Syria, and they worked with Sunni Saudis and Turks to fund rebels to foment civil wars in Syria and Iraq. And of course, the fall of Libya was also engineered by Zionists in US and France, and that also fed to the rise of ISIS.

    But does Crisis mag have the guts to point this out? Or does it suffer from antisemitism-phobia? Is it so afraid of being attacked as ‘antisemitic’ that it shuts up about the toxic influences of Jewish power?

    • bonaventure

      There is no different between a liberal who comes from a Christian background and a liberal who comes from a Jewish background. Both liberals have abandoned their faith biblical faith, and the morality that comes with it.

      People like you, however, are playing right into the Islamists’ propaganda.

      • Not all liberalisms are the same.

        Jewish Democrats, black Democrats, Hispanic Democrats, and Muslim Democrats have different goals and interests.

        Also, some Liberal groups are far more powerful than other groups.
        Jewish Liberals provide 65% of the funds to the Democratic party. Jews dominate media and academia. So, Jewish Liberal thought shapes Christian Liberal thought than the other way around.

        Christian Liberals were not for ‘gay marriage’ before powerful Jews in Wall Street, Hollywood, Washington, and San Francisco made it the main moral issue of America.

        Even within the same camp, some lead while others follow.

        • bonaventure

          You wrote “Jewish liberals” and “Christian liberals.”

          I wrote “liberals who come from a Christian background” and “liberals who come from a Jewish background.”

          There is a world of difference between my description and yours. You assume that Jews and Christians can remain Jewish and Christian while being liberal, and then you try to set the ones against the others in a failed dialectical fashion: “These have more money than these, and therefore these are more evil, etc.” This is hogwash.

          I say that they are both no longer Jewish or Christian, just liberal, and as such they are absolutely no different. And it does not matter who possesses the more money. Their agenda is the same.

          • It doesn’t matter what YOU think. Jewish identity is as much historical and ethnic as it’s religious.

            Christians who no longer believe in God no longer consider themselves to be Christian.

            But Jewishness is essentially ethnic. Majority of Jews are secular but still consider themselves to be Jewish. Israel recognizes as Jews even secular atheist Jews as long as they can prove Jewish ancestry.

            And Jews with an ethnic sense of Jewish identity do work for Jewish interests. And even religious neo-con Jews work in cahoots with liberal Jews. When push comes to shove, even religious Jews will side with secular Jews than with religious Christians.

            • bonaventure

              Every nation identifies with their ethnicity, and ethnic minorities within nations do as much. However, you single out the Jews. This is either jealousy for the Jewish nation’s unprecedented successes, or else you’re a racist. One way or another, you’re playing right into the Islamists’ playbook.

            • TommyD6of11

              Andrea,
              I’m Irish American. The Irish have been very very successful here and helped build the Democratic party of today.

              So how about sharing the love by unleashing a diatribe against the Irish.

              Seriously, please do so. There are few things I hate more than Leftist Irish.

    • TommyD6of11

      There are many, many non-Jewish Leftists … far more than Jewish ones.

      Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Jane Fonda, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Dorothy Day, Father Coughlin, AL Gore, Robert Deniro, George Clooney … do I have to keep going.

      Many of the leading Conservatives are Jewish.

      Nearly all orthodox Jews despise Obama.

      99%+ of Israel is disapprove of Obama.

      50 years ago, the Irish, my heritage, were solidly Democrat. Today, it’s 50/50.

      Jewish Americans are becoming increasingly Conservative.

  • If marriage should be about individual choice, why isn’t there any call for ‘same family marriage’ or ‘incest marriage’? Isn’t finding incest to be gross a form of ‘incestophobia’? Isn’t it incestophobic to say that incest isn’t a worthy basis for marriage?

    • TommyD6of11

      Correct. Indeed, movements to remove all kinds of societal standards are already under way.

      Pederasty will increasingly become normative with the charge of pedophilic-phobic against all who dare resist.

  • TERRY

    Here’s the latest in the War On Women

  • Brian Greaves

    Islamophobia seems to have gained its victory in the US where the atrocity of 9/11 didn’t manage to to do, where there is now a willingness to pacify to the jihadists. And in the UK a weakness of the hierarchy to confront the jihardies now, has a precedent in their rolling over so easily to Henry 8th after the pressure he confronted them with.

  • Muslims can go to hell and take their Leftist partners in crime with them. yes, I hate them and I don’t hide how I feel. I feel what I feel because I know these two very ugly powerful enemies of Christendom, freedom and liberty. Islam is powerful because the left makes it powerful. the left makes Islam powerful because it needs foot soldiers to fight those who know what they are. Islam is evil, its a destructive force. The left is evil, too. The killing fields of Russia and the Ukraine are testament to how destructive they were. Those in the church who thinks its cool or chic to defend the religion of the beast and the founders of the gulag should resign. They no longer represent Christ who would have never tolerated the teachings of Mohammed no more than he tolerated the perverse teachings of the Talmud.

  • Lauren Brouillette

    But no one cares if you insult the Christians, I guess because THEY WON’T SHOOT YOU FOR DOING SO!

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