Catholic Schools Pressed to Give Up Morality

Rev. John Whitney SJ

After decades of well-documented dissent on many Catholic college campuses over Church teachings on abortion, contraception, and same sex marriage, a new front in the Catholic culture wars has opened on Catholic K-12 campuses as increasing numbers of gay and lesbian teachers and administrators at these schools are lobbying for the right to marry their same sex partners—and keep their jobs.

Posting pictures of their same sex engagements and weddings on Facebook pages shared with students, or publishing their wedding announcements in local newspapers, some of them have been terminated—not for being gay or lesbian—rather, for choosing a lifestyle that is viewed by the Church as inconsistent with Catholic teachings on marriage as a union between one man and one woman.

Within the last school year, Catholic school teachers and administrators in Missouri, California, New Jersey, Ohio, Arkansas, and Seattle proudly announced their same sex engagements and marriages.  All have been terminated.   In Massachusetts, a food service worker who had applied for a job at a Catholic school in Milton claims he was denied the job because in his application materials, he identified his husband as the next of kin for an emergency contact.

Not surprisingly, the lawsuits have already begun as the courts have become the preferred  battleground for the aggrieved plaintiffs in the Catholic culture wars.  Presented as helpless victims of what they and their supporters see as a draconian doctrine on marriage, there is strong public support for the terminated teachers.  Few cite the fact that as a condition of their employment, teachers and administrators at Catholic schools formally agree to a code of conduct that requires them to uphold lifestyles compatible with the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.  Being a gay or lesbian teacher is certainly not the reason for these dismissals—the Church teaches that all those with same sex attraction are to be treated with respect and dignity—but publicly flouting Church teachings on marriage is something else entirely because of the public scandal it creates as faithful Catholics demand that their children’s teachers support these teachings.

Of course, this may change as support for same sex marriage continues to increase—even for Catholics.  In most of this year’s Catholic teacher scandals, students, parents and communities seem to be siding with the gay and lesbian teachers. Following the termination of Seattle’s Eastside Catholic high school Vice Principal, Mark Zmuda, after he married his current husband, the school’s president and CEO, Sr. Mary Tracy resigned in January after weeks of student walk-outs, petitions, threats, and negative media attention.

This is not unusual as savvy students use social media to rally support for the ousted teachers.  In Seattle, students gathered signatures on an online petition and communicating via Twitter and texts.  According to a report in the New York Times, the students protested outside City Hall, at a Seahawks game, and outside the archdiocese of Seattle, where they were joined by Ed Murray, then the city’s mayor-elect, who is Catholic and gay.  Alumni and parents are organizing online as they seek to force change at the school.

The Times reported that  Zmuda had not been at the school long but was “liked by students, especially on the swim team, which he coached.  He married in July, seven months after same sex marriage became legal in Washington State, and was terminated in December, shortly after the school’s administration received a complaint from a teacher about his marital status.”

In a case in Arkansas when Tippi McCullough, a lesbian gym teacher at Mount St. Mary Academy in Little Rock was fired after marrying her female partner, the Human Rights Campaign, a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender advocacy group mobilized an audience of supporters and media reporters in a press conference last October to demand her reinstatement.  McCullough’s wife, Barb Mariani, is a deputy prosecutor in Arkansas and promises to “end the troubling cycle of employment discrimination based on sexual orientation.”

But, McCullough was not fired because she was a lesbian. She was not fired based on her sexual orientation.  In media interviews she has acknowledges this saying that her sexuality “was not a secret among colleagues at work and did not prove to be a problem until she got married in New Mexico on October 16, 2013.” McCullough was fired because she publicly proclaimed to be part of a same sex marriage while teaching in a Catholic school that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman.

But, that may no longer make a difference as lawmakers will surely attempt to change the laws surrounding workplace discrimination by once again conspiring to remove ministerial exceptions to hiring policies despite the Supreme Court’s unanimous affirmation of religious liberty against the Obama administration in the Hosanna-Tabor case of 2012.  In the Seattle case, more than 200 supporters of Mr. Zmuda gathered at St. Joseph’s parish, Seattle, for a panel event which ended the celebration of “Z Day” in honor of the fired vice-principal. According to the New Ways Ministry, a Catholic pro-same sex marriage organization that is critical of Catholic teachings on homosexuality and marriage, the panel included Cleve Jones, a nationally known LGBT advocate, and prominent Eastside Catholic alumni.

The fact that the gathering was allowed at a Catholic parish in Seattle is worth noting.  St. Joseph’s parish is headed by Fr. John Whitney, S.J. who, according to New Ways Ministries, voiced his support for Mr. Zmuda’s right to have his job back.  In a homily, Fr. Whitney lauded the activist students, encouraging their same sex advocacy for Mr. Z—calling them “Orange and Blue Apostles.”

The Latest Battle in Charlotte, NC
This battle is just beginning as Church teachings on same sex behavior and marriage are becoming anathema even within the Church’s own Catholic institutions.  Just last week, Catholic high school students and their parents in a high school in Charlotte, NC, protested a speech by Sr. Jane Dominic Laurel, a Nashville Dominican nun and professor at Aquinas College, Nashville, because she dared to speak negatively about same sex behavior.  An authority on Blessed John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, Sr. Jane is a nationally known lecturer on Catholic high school campuses throughout the country.  According to the Catholic News Herald, Sr. Jane has given her lecture more than 80 times in 25 states.

But, her speaking career may end as the Charlotte Observer reports that Catholic parents and students  at the school have initiated a letter writing campaign—sending complaints about Sr. Laurel to school administrators, and Bishop Peter Jugis, the presiding bishop of Charlotte, as well as Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz, the current president of the USCCB.  Complaints about Sr. Laurel were even sent to the Vatican.  According to the Catholic News Herald, a petition opposing Sr. Jane’s visit was signed with more than 3,200 names as of last Wednesday.

In her defense, Charlotte Diocesan spokesman David Hains said Sr. Jane has spoken frequently in the diocese and has a doctoral degree in sacred theology from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome.  According to the Charlotte Observer, the Rev. Tim Reid, pastor of St. Ann Catholic Church sent an email lauding the nun, saying “she represented well the Catholic positions on marriage, sex, same sex attraction and proper gender roles.”  But, the President of Aquinas College in Nashville seems to have distanced herself from Sr. Jane.  In an April 4th statement, the president defended the school’s curriculum and Sr. Jane’s credentials as a theologian, but acknowledged that the portions of her speech may have been “outside the scope of her academic background.”  The Aquinas College statement apologized for a lecture that divided the campus; this result is “not something the College condones or desires to create…. There is division where there should be unity.”

This is actually the problem as authentic Church teachings on same sex behavior and marriage  are now beginning to be defined as “hate-speech”—even when spoken by a nun or a priest or even a bishop.  Orthodox teaching will be suppressed in some institutions due to fear of protests, while lawsuits against school administrators and diocesan officials who uphold Church teaching will disrupt the administration of Catholic schools.  Faithful Catholics will be intimidated into silence.  It is becoming increasingly clear that the attacks on the religious freedom of Catholic institutions and many of those who work within them are just beginning.

Editor’s note: The image above is a photo of Seattle priest Rev. John Whitney, S.J. demonstrating in Washington D.C. for same-sex marriage in defiance of his bishop.

Anne Hendershott

By

Anne Hendershott is Professor of Sociology and Director of the Veritas Center at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. She is the author of Status Envy: The Politics of Catholic Higher Education; The Politics of Abortion; and The Politics of Deviance (Encounter Books). She is also the co-author of Renewal: How a New Generation of Priests and Bishops are Revitalizing the Catholic Church (2013).

  • ForChristAlone

    The Catholic Church must get very serious (and quickly) about hiring only those who are Catholic and who willingly accept positions that acknowledge in writing that what they are accepting is a salaried position that is a ministry of the Church – part of the Church’s mission to evangelize. Now one cannot at all evangelize if he or she is publicly living in sin as this would be contrary to giving witness to the Gospel. I said this when I was the Director of my diocese’s Catholic Charities and was scoffed at by some in the Human Resources Dept. The chickens are coming home to roost.

    Hire secular humanists, fallen away Catholics, half-baked protestants, and outright atheists and this is what you will get. This is also what happens when the Church bends over backwards to accommodate unbelievers – the Church winds up no longer knowing what She believes and causing much confusion among the faithful. Let’s remember that when Christ, as noted in John, ch 6, spoke of his disciples needing to eat His body and drink His blood, many walked away since these were “hard teachings;” I don’t recall Christ running after them and offering to compromise what he said. In fact, to his first bishops he said, “Will you too leave?”

    • Paul McGuire

      But would a court seriously uphold that provision when a professor is acting as a gym teacher or teaching mathematics? I fail to see how a decision that a professor who also taught religion and led worship services was a minister supports the position that somehow a gym teacher is a minister even if agreed to in a contract.

      • flourgiggy

        Sir,
        Do you not realize that the entire faculty at a Catholic school is of a piece and each — whatever their particular position – is looked upon as a “role model” for the children. For many reasons, I, as a Catholic parent, do not want my children under the influence of people who profess to be Catholic, but lead a different lifestyle. This applies to all teachers of all subjects, including he administrators.

        As for the courts, they have made too many bad decisions, and they should not, under the Constitution, be allowed to dictate what the Catholic religion will or will not do.

        • ForChristAlone

          Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s. Paul Maguire is an advocate for rendering what is God’s to Caesar. Do this, Paul, at your own peril. I will not.

          • Watosh

            I taught for many years an Air Force class on a technical subject. I used my lectures to inject moral teaching at times because I felt it important to always stress moral behavior. Every subject provides an opportunity to reflect moral teaching. Mathematics, my profession, is a good example, and affords many examples of divine creation and divine origin.

      • ForChristAlone

        I wouldn’t expect you to understand, now would I?

        • Paul McGuire

          I’m not the one you need to convince, but courts once such provisions are challenged.

          • Art Deco

            Your implication is that the hiring practices of Catholic apostolates are properly subject to state control. This used to be a free country.

            • Paul McGuire

              They are subject to state control to the extent that they are not considered ministers. Thus it would be necessary to convince a judge that this definition of minister used is authentic. If it is the official church position that all people in teaching positions at Catholic schools are ministers then they would have to articulate that within the legal framework just as was done in the case of Hosanna-Tabor. My point was that one of the main considerations in Hosanna-Tabor was the explicit ministry roles of the professor in question which are not as pronounced in other professors teaching more secular subjects.

              • ForChristAlone

                You’re thick-headed. The guy who cleans the toilet is involved in Church ministry. You might have to stretch your mind to see how because you measure things by this world’s definitions. Catholics measure things according to eternal verities.

                • TheAbaum

                  No, he’s a fascist.

                  • Guest

                    Nonsense. He’s a prairie dog with an aerosol can. ;-)

                    • TheAbaum

                      He may be, but what he represents has shown its face most recently in the use of the Courts to upend marriage laws and create forcible servitude-and the Mozilla affair.

              • Art Deco

                Paul, you do know there is a distinction between positive law and principles of justice? I am not interested in your views on case law. You will look in vain on this board for anyone who has any respect for appellate judges or for legislative majorities who fancy that there should be no principles of private association of which people in their social circle disapprove. The are bad laws (and the case law often comical).

              • Watosh

                That is a good point, but it places Catholics in a vulnerable position of having to justify our activities to the State. We are so happy that under the right to religious freedom we are allowed to attend the Church of our choice without penalty, that we don’t realize the restrictions that we are under, restrictions that undercut our freedom to conduct our affairs according to our religious beliefs.

              • Guest

                Unjust laws are not true laws.

              • tom

                The ministerial exception is plenty broad. If a gym teacher leads the kids in the hail Mary once a year, she’s covered….and why wouldn’t she be? If she didn’t publicly believe Mary was Christ’s mother, she’d have a problem.

              • fredx2

                d

              • fredpiott

                Sorry Paul . . . You are wrong about most everything you say!

              • jaimjackson

                As far as I know, all Catholic Schools have MIssion Statements as well as contract provisions which declare the Catholic values of the school. Thus I believe all of the school’s employees would be considered “ministers” under the terms of Hosanna-Tabor. This is not a Catholic (quasi)canonical or (para)clerical term. It would simply be considered a legal term with reference to the SCOTUS.

          • ForChristAlone

            But, you see, I would not even feel a need to convince you of anything.
            As I said above about God and Caesar, you are more concerned with Caesar; I’m more concerned with God. You are immersed in the secular; I am immersed in the eternal. You’re made for this world; I’m made for the next.

          • tom

            The courts seem to exist to overthrow Western Civilization.

            • Valentin

              They used to uphold it but bad judges were given power and too many lawyers became weasels. I know an upstanding Catholic man who grew up in the 50′s and says that he quit the legal career because it was driving him crazy.

      • Art Deco

        I fail to see

        We get that.

        That aside, the disciplinary practices of the school, the curriculum in literature and history, aspects of instruction in the arts, aspects of the athletic program, and electives available are all going to be influenced by the Catholic ethic. The degree to which the faculty has a certain esprit de corps is predicated on an understanding of just what they are all working toward. If they are not in the business of producing educated Catholics, they are in some other business (commonly having do to with the educational program, providing a feed to Notre Dame, or simply providing employment for low-grade bourgeois).

      • Julie

        The US is not a democracy (nor is the Catholic Church). The form of government we have is a Republic, based on the rule of law, not “majority rules.” Teachers sign a contract regarding Catholic morality/Catholic teaching. If they don’t want to “live” under the conditions set forth in a contract, they shouldn’t work there.

        • Watosh

          Our government is based on the rule of law, not the majority rules, you say, but who makes the laws Julie? It takes a majority vote of our representatives and they are elected by obtaining the majority of votes. Of course our judiciary altho appointed by government officials who were elected by a majority, can “make laws,” but even our supreme court decisions are determined by majority vote on the court. So it would appear that all this boils down to the principle we have under our form of government, which may or may not be a Democracy or even a democracy depending on how you define this rather broad term, that majority rules.

          • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

            The only people on the ballot have been bribed to be there.

            • Watosh

              I can’t argue with that.

          • Valentin

            For a long time the only people who voted in the US were land owning gentlemen, ever since then the standards have dropped further and further. Plus the Church is a monarchy with Christ as the king so whether or not the US is a democracy we have to hold true to our king.

            • Watosh

              I know, I know, but I was responding to the statement Julie made as to the theoretical form of political government we, I hesitate to say, “enjoy.” I had roughly characterized it as a “democracy” as in popular terms that is the common way of describing it, but Julie took issue with that and felt it was inaccurate, which it was, saying that actually our government was a Republic, which is more correct for the purists in the audience, but she went on to add that our government is based on “the rule of law” (which it may have been at one time,) rather than “majority rules.” I then pointed out that the law Julie had in mind, arose from, generally speaking, some form of majority voting. In other words I didn’t think the distinction she made was really a distinction when all was said and done.

              Again the subject I was addressing dealt with the actual form of government that we in the U.S. were governed by, and not our where our ultimate allegiance lay regardless of the form of government we happen to live under. Personally, myself, I believe a secular democracy or republic or representative democracy is not the ideal form of government.

              Further I might add, In regard to the question concerning the form of government we live under here in the U.S. a study to appear in the Fall 2014 issue of the academic journal “Perspectives on Politics” finds the U.S. is no democracy, but instead “an oligarchy meaning profoundly corrupt” That is something else purists can chew on.

              • Valentin

                Thanks for clarifying that. I also don’t think a secular democracy is a good idea at least not in a place where the majority of people have false notions of justice and morality.

      • John200

        Paul,

        You fail to see anything that goes on here as a good thing. Catholic faith; Catholic teaching; Catholic way of life; Catholic principles regarding sex;….

      • Chris Cloutier

        The subject taught is of no significance. We will either uphold Gods law or we will not. These so called Catholics aren’t Catholic at all and should be excommunicated for open defiance of Church teaching. God said to Moses,”If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” Leviticus 20:13

      • fredpiott

        The truth Paul is that we are ALL to be disciples of Christ, and in doing so, we are ALL priests . . . Sadly, many do not take this calling seriously and most do a very poor job of it – It’s part of the human condition, but reality of God and His truth is not dependent on anything we humans do or fail to do!

    • Augusto Pozuelos

      Hiring only catholics … Great! But not forget many catholics, even among those who confessed themselves as practicants, do not believe moral dogmas, just like contraception, generosity with sons in marriage, etc.
      This is the crop we get after many years of bad teachings on moral issues …

      • tom

        It all started with Pelosi and Sebelius out of Trinity in Washington. That school needs to be reduced like Carthage for the harm its done to the American Church.

      • la catholic state

        You are right. I think only those Catholics who will sign a statement saying they will support the teachings of the Church should be employed by Catholic institutions. After that….even non-Catholics who would be prepared to sign such a statement could also be employed at Catholic institutions.

      • tat

        Then you’re not Catholic Dear. To be Catholic you have to be in Communion with the Church which requires you ascent to Church doctrine–and belief in Dogma is without wiggle room. You descent, you excommunicate yourself, no formal action by the Church is nec’y.

  • plb5678

    Catholic teachings and doctrines are what they are and will not be changed to accept gay quasi-marriage period. Whine all you want but you agree to live by Catholic teachings and if you don’t goodbye. So much evil in the world is attacking the Catholic Church and Christians everywhere from several fronts you know it is the work of Satan and his minions. But it must happen to bring about Christ’s return. Amen.

  • Guest

    False unity and compromise are not of God.

  • lifeknight

    Recently I had the opportunity to interview a potential health care provider for a Catholic clinic. I showed this person our “oath” to the magisterial teachings with the notion that she would have no problem with it, as she trained at Loyola and some other “pastoral” institute and Catholic Univ. She declined, stating that she has “supremacy” of her own conscience. This apparently “trumps” long held Catholic teachings. I refused to give her the position and am now wondering about a quick-penned attorney filing a suit. The point is that SOME of us will stand up to the pressure, but MOST will not. I believe that the sympathizers are the worst of all enemies, as is clear with the Sr. Jane incident. She is a saintly and intelligent woman. As events unfold for the disintegration of religious freedom for Catholics we must pay attention and revolt. Finding a hierarchal leader will be our next problem.

    • ForChristAlone

      Again, when it comes to hiring, I would define every position as one of “ministry.” Even if the person is hired to wash the floor he or she is hired to be a minister of the Gospel. Job description will have to be written this way so when the Thought Police and the Homosexual Lobby wants to make trouble, we can simply say that this is a ministerial function. And guess what – if we REALLY understood Christ’s command to us to evangelize, we wouldn’t have any problem seeing these jobs this way. But hey, who am I to judge?

      • Watosh

        Very true, but then we have the secular, liberal principles that our government subscribes to in which hiring only Catholics is discriminatory, particularly when we accept many protestants in our schools. Our government’s commandment is “Thou shalt not Discriminate.” As it has been said, it is hard to serve two masters, which is what we are up against.

        • ForChristAlone

          We’re to evangelize the protestants because if you scratch beneath the surface, well….you’d know exactly what you’d find.

  • publiusnj

    “When the going gets tough….” This is not the time for temporizing. The bishops of the United States need to address the issue of homosexual marriage openly and without “on the one hand…on the other” mealy-mouthedness. Of course, we love our homosexual brethren. That is the easier part of the message and it has been said repeatedly and often. Leading off with that and not saving it until a question is posed allows a refuge from addressing the tougher question, which is that homosexual intercourse is called sin in Leviticus and Romans 1 and in 2000 years of Catholic Doctrine. What needs to be said now is that the Catholic Church is never going to change its position on Gay Marriage or Gay Sex outside marriage.

    • john

      Here here. It wouldn’t hurt for the Catholic bishops to issue a simple and clear statement in one voice. It also would be nice for the Holy Father to help–the hour is getting late for Catholics trying to defend their faith without any top cover.

      • cpsho

        Hi John the problem is where exactly is the “Holy Father” in this discussion?
        Even to ask that question says something is wrong.
        When the head of the RCC puts forward “who am I to judge” as policy, is it surprising to see the ravenous wolves among the sheep?

      • Dick Prudlo

        I am one of many who have for many years waited for a Pope to stand on the firm ground of doctrine. We have been beating up on these lousy bishops for years and giving the popes free passes. John, I believe you have hit upon the crux of this issue.

      • jacobhalo

        The pope and most of the bishops don’t have the guts to get tough with those Catholics who do not believe in the teachings of the church. If I were the pope, I would suggest to Catholics who don’t believe in the main teachings of the church, abortion, homosexuality, etc. should find a denomination with which they agree. According to what I was taught pre-Vatican II, if you deny one teaching of the church you are considered a heretic. Could you imagine the pope or bishops calling someone a heretic?

    • Reets46

      I so agree. The church hierarchy has often failed to speak out forcefully in a timely manner on issues that have since devastated our youth and families. Birth control comes to mind. Young people are being told to experiment with same sex partners at a time when they’re own sexual identity is still in formation. We are going to see the destruction of the family at warp speed if this stuff continues. My heart breaks for the young people in todays sexually permissive culture. We need a new “sexual revolution” to reclaim sanity regarding chastity, modesty and the promotion of marriage as between a man and a woman. Some of todays young people call themselves the “pro-life generation”, I hope those same young people claim sanity in regards to sexual morality. Pray for them.

      • Jhawk77

        I have long held your position about our shepherds not saying enough against all the permutations of the sexual revolution. But lately I’m beginning to think that our culture’s tsunami of sexual images and messages would likely have overwhelmed everything the bishops might have said. The greater challenge, I sense now, involve the shortcomings of the laity. They must be catechized in order to be receptive of the message.

        • Reets46

          I understand what you are saying, but unfortunately, the parents of the “children of the sixties” co-opted the sexual revolution. That’s why this adolescent revolution has lasted so long and has permeated the culture so completely. I’m not sure you can reach these folks or the “children of the sixties” as they don’t want to listen. The church has not catechized the laity for decades. When was the last time you heard a homily on contraception or homosexuality? Abortion is an easy discussion. Even the kids get that one. They don’t, however, understand why we are concerned about BC and same sex marriage. Since their parents often put them on BC to prevent pregnancy, where do you start? You have more faith than I do, but it certainly would be worth a try, especially if the Bishops became more outspoken about the issues in public and thus gave a voice to their parish priests.

          • Jhawk77

            I must agree with you, my friend. I can only continue to catechize my children and grandchildren.

            • Reets46

              That’s what we must do. I pray for those of my children who have left the church and do what I can to help catechize my grandchildren who were born to parents that went to Steubenville U. and get it. They are now homeschooling there kids as that seems to be the most conducive to influencing their faith. There aren’t many safe places to send our kids/grandkids today. You can’t raise them in a bubble but you can’t feed them to the wolves either.

            • musicacre

              That’s why we homeschooled. In 1990 when we made the decision, things were looking glum for schools producing any Catholics. Good thing we didn’t wait because I don’t see that things have changed for the better.

          • William Beckman

            It’s not simply a failure to catechize; prior to catechesis there must be a vigorous and bold announcement of the core gospel (kerygma) which is then repeated during the extended period of catechesis. Catechesis alone will not bring people to intimacy with Jesus Christ if they’ve never had a life-changing encounter with him. We need real preaching, not jokes, pablum and equivocation.
            The popes have stood firm in many encyclicals and exhortations over the years. The Catechism is full of clear teaching. Unfortunately, intermediaries in some bishops’ conferences, chanceries, parishes and Catholic publishing houses have de-emphasized, watered down or simply ignored clear Catholic teaching. Couple this with a lack of evangelical dynamism rooted in the post-Pentecost apostolic Church, and we have a big problem.
            There is a definite lack of authentic Catholic identity in many of our institutions and families. It’s been going on for more than a generation and is now self-fulfilling. We’ve arrived at the point where a great many parents, teachers and catechists can’t give what they don’t have.

            • musicacre

              Well put. A wealth of Catholic information and teaching is being wasted and ignored. Recent additions to help priests insert direct teaching about the woes of contraception and the great advantages of Church-approved NFP have been made available, yet are rarely heard about…such as, the book, A Preachable Message which helps priest incorporate the Catholic NFP message into every homily of the year! What a tool! Put together by 30 or 40 courageous priests and bishops across N. America. And yet, how many priests or lay people know about this book?

          • jacobhalo

            Go to a EF of the mass, the traditional mass, and you hear hear sermons on abortion, homosexuality, etc.

            • TheAbaum

              I hear them in my Church and it’s not EF.

            • musicacre

              That’s true. As for the Ordinary Form, it’s like Russian Roulette. Depends on what mood the priest is in.

        • msmischief

          Maybe it would have, and maybe it wouldn’t have. But that doesn’t change our duty.

  • Mike Nace

    It’s no secret that the homosexual rights agenda is to infiltrate every aspect of society in order to change hegemonic ideals on homosexuality. And make no mistake: they have succeeded wildly in doing so: they’ve co-opted politics, entertainment, media, Big Business, professional sports, and now the Church. Such teachers as described above are interlopers; operatives who — whether in concert with homosexual rights organizers or simply acting alone — are looking to indoctrinate the next generation of Catholics into the movement’s talking points, such as “gay love” and how you not only have to agree that people have the right to be gay, but that you also have to agree with it morally.

    Of course, the reason for this effort among homosexuals is downright human: very few of us in society do something wrong until or unless we’ve justified it to ourselves. The movement is all about creating a massive justification for a lifestyle that humans know to be intrinsically disordered. It is a carefully constructed marketing campaign that, by all accounts, paints the rosiest picture possible of the Gay lifestyle that is one akin to that of the nuclear family, when in fact the vast majority of people in that lifestyle lead extremely self-destructive, dysfunctional lives. Science bears out that the homosexual and transgendered demographics are among the most disturbed in society. And yet, we see an increasingly popular rebranding of the lifestyle — even within our church.

    • John Byde

      A highly perceptive and accurate reply.

  • Ciarán Ó Coigligh

    Sr Jane Dominic Laurel deserves the support of all Catholics an of all others who support the right of people to express their religious belief and to form the younger generation in their beliefs. Congratulations to Anne Hendershott for her excellent article and to all others who have publicly highlighted Sr Jane’s appalling treatment and who have expressed support for her Christian Catholic witness.

    • Art Deco

      Did you catch the statement finally released by Bp. Peter Jugis? I’m thinking crisis ought to start a regular feature on the conduct of bishops. Call it “Waste of Space Watch”.

      • John Byde

        Yes, where ARE the bishops when these things happen? Apart from Bp Paprocki and a few others, The silence is deafening

    • cpsho

      The chief Shepherd says, “who am I to judge” and the other shepherds fall in line. We are in a serious crisis in the RCC. But the problem is a large percentage of faithful Catholics don’t realize it.
      http://www.prophetamos3m.com/3.html

      • Bill Beckman

        Don’t take the Pope out of context. His entire statement included a substantial qualifier. You are distorting the Pope’s statement in the same manner as the secular media. If you’re going to play the blame game, please get your facts straight.

        • TheAbaum

          BIll, CPSHO is a PHO, and on his second pseudonym.

        • cpsho

          The whole world is going up in flames set by the Gay Agenda. When last did the authorities in Rome speak out to remind people clearly that it is against the will of our Lord Jesus for a catholic to be “gay”?
          “By their fruits you shall know them.”
          “They will receive a recompense that corresponds to their deeds.”

  • FrankW

    Thanks for an excellent article.

    It is time for our bishops and pastors to take the lead on this issue decisively and unambiguously, and to do so in the public eye.

    The time for the “going along to get along” approach to this issue has passed. No Catholic school at the K-12 level should ever willingy hire an educator who is living a lifestyle in direct opposition to the teachings of the Church.

    This should not only include those who are living in same-sex relationships, but also those heterosexual couples who live together without being married. This way, from a legal perspective, the focus will at least start on the Church’s teachings instead of allowing its adversaries to begin by claiming that only same-sex couples are being “targeted” by the Church. Going forward, the church needs to make very clear that the requirement to have their Catholic school employees abide by Church teachings should apply across the board.

    Why this wasn’t the case to begin with is beyond my ability to understand, but my guess is that this is just one more example of the harm political correctness can cause when our leaders cower in fear of public criticism.

  • John O’Neill

    There is no mystery here; the Catholic school teachers attend secular/atheistic Americanized universities where marriage equality is equated to the civil rights struggle of the sixties. If Catholic schools wish to continue they must screen their applicants with the goal of weeding out the CINOs (catholics in name only). I had the experience of teaching in a Catholic high school back in the 70s and 80s; the majority of the teachers in that school were not practicing Catholics and most supported abortion, homosexual rights etc. The nuns were the biggest supporters of this non Catholic positions. Parents should ask themselves if they really want to pay these tuitions in order to have their children taught by a “married” homosexual religion teacher. Boycott these Catholic schools; unfortunately the American bishops have no concern for this issue.

  • jpct50

    I was disturbed by the statement put out by Aquinas College saying that Sister’s speech was divisive. They were apologizing for that! Apologizing for simply teaching Catholic doctrine? And this from an Orthodox order of Dominican nuns!

    • marlin

      Unity rather than divisiveness, but unity in what? Dogma or the popular culture?

      • musicacre

        I remember Dietrich Von Hildebrand’s famous quote which you remind me of, “..the only kind of unity that is genuine is unity in truth…”:

  • poetcomic1

    The Church of Nice collapses like a soggy, under-cooked soufflé . The main ingredient in a soufflé is hot air. I am looking at a Catholic High School text – it is the Junior year religious course from 1946. Reading this is like hewing stones and fitting them together.

  • Art Deco

    These controversies are ever indicators of the following:

    1. The schools have clientele which are actually hostile to their foundational mission (and uncomprehending of it).

    2. Much of the Church’s middle management is antagonistic to or indifferent to its institutional mission.

    3. In the larger society (and among the legal profession in particular), there is no longer an embedded understanding of the notion of free association. All associations are to be broken to the saddle of what is fashionable among our professional-managerial bourgeoisie.

    4. There is not much episcopal spine left. A serious bishop would tell the bellyachers to attend elsewhere and if it meant closing the school, so be it. There is no point to “Catholic” apostolates which traffick in contemporary fashion.

    5. The Charlotte incident has also revealed that there is a small corps of soi-disant ‘orthodox’ Catholics who will put a certain amount of effort into ginning up excuses for fragging priests and religious who offend against bobo sensibilities or who will do the same to justify whatever a spineless ecclesiastic fails to do.

    • musicacre

      As I’ve commented for another article, if people in any other walk of life worked against the foundational mission, they’d be sacked.

      As for spine, there was a bishop (now deceased) here on the West coast in Canada who did exactly what you mentioned, he told the bellyachers to buck up and closed the school…..to this day that city has Catholic schools that I think have really fought to retain their Catholic character. If only ALL bishops had his guts! PS, To this day he remains the most well-loved bishop ever, who also built a wealth of schools.

  • OttFatherofTwo

    If you want to see how bad it can get, just go to Lifesitenews and search on either OECTA or OCSB…. School Boards paying for contraceptives, OECTA union marching in gay pride, ties to pro-Planned Parenthood Kielburgers (watch for huge stadium-based “We Days” for “Free the children” coming soon to US cities), etc etc etc

  • http://batman-news.com Dart Echo

    I wish the author would phrased these words ” who is Catholic and gay” differently
    “claims to be Catholic” “nominally Catholic” “identifies as Catholic” or more accurately “was Catholic”.
    It’s entirely possible to be Catholic amd homosexually oriented. Even if you act on that temptation, that makes you a sinner. Gay however seems to involve a supreme loyality to your libido, having a strange god before God.

    • cpsho

      you are right. Any catholic who calls himself or herself “gay” is simply labeling himself or herself with the Mark of the Beast (666)
      http://www.prophetamos3m.com/6.html

    • mahrt

      It is even a mistake to refer to homosexual partners as “husband” or “wife.”

      • Micha Elyi

        For clarity, I prefix such terms with the word ‘sham’, as in homosexual sham marriage, sham husband, and sham wife.

        When I’m feeling especially expansive I use ‘counterfeit’ instead of ‘sham’.

        • ForChristAlone

          Excellent, indeed.

    • TheAbaum

      One of the regular colummists here uses the term “pseudonogamy”. It is precise, accurate and doesn’t concede the language to its abusers.

  • Pingback: Pope Francis Warns of Dictatorship of Narrow Thinking - BigPulpit.com

  • Paul McGuire

    I’m very interested to see how courts decide to deal with the challenges brought in these cases. Legally speaking, most of them signed an agreement that they would abide by church teachings. The bigger question occurs in states that have discrimination protections based on sexual orientation. Despite the insistence that these teachers were not fired for being gay but for entering into a gay marriage, I don’t think the distinction is going to persuade judges.

    The 9th Circuit recently revisited their earlier case law that was based on the idea of a separation of identity and choice of action. Specifically, they relied on some statements by Justices on The U.S. Supreme Court in recent decisions expanding rights of gays and lesbians where the Justices recognized that a person’s sexual orientation is innate.

    If at some point we see national employment protections expanded then there might be more challenges. The current GOP insists on opposing any attempts to pass ENDA so I don’t expect national protections to come anytime soon. And with more conservative states passing religious protection acts I don’t see many more states passing similar protections anytime soon.

    Even if a contract were to include a clause that said these teachers are ministerial I find that hard to uphold when they are teaching secular subjects. I don’t see how a gym teacher could ever be found to be a minister. So the main question for the courts becomes, is it proper for a Catholic school to require employees to sign a morals clause as a condition of employment. Assuming that each of these teachers did in fact sign a morals clause then the schools have at least a decent argument that they can legally fire the teachers for marrying same-sex spouses.

    Aside from the legal question though, I do support the students’ choices to protest the decisions of the school to fire the teachers. The case in Seattle happened the day after I married my husband in California so I found their protest to be especially meaningful.

    • Art Deco

      the Justices recognized that a person’s sexual orientation is innate.

      We understand what the conventional wisdom is among Justice Kennedy’s circle of friends. We don’t care, nor should we have to.

      • Micha Elyi

        Some people are beginning to awaken to the fact that elections have consequences. Millions more remain fast asleep.

        • Watosh

          To this I might add TV has consequences too, and the major TV media have great influence as to what people think. 9/11 attack happened Sept 11, 2001, Iraq was invaded in March of 2003. At the time of the invasion polls showed that about 70% of Americans polled believed Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks. Now this was absolutely, demonstrably, completely false, yet most this is what a majority of Americans were led to believe during the many months that we were obviously preparing to invade Iraq. Yes elections have consequences, one of the earliest examples is the election held by Pontius Pilate over which prisoner he should release. My point, elections in themselves may not be the answer as some are led to believe.

          • Art Deco

            The topic is Catholic schooling. Your blather on the Iraq war is insipid enough when that actually is the subject.

            • Watosh

              Art, you have such a gracious way of expressing yourself. If you bothered to read and consider what I was talking about you would have noticed that I was trying to demonstrate the power of TV to influence public opinion, and elections, and relations between Church and state, under which topic Catholic schooling falls. But I know it is more gratifying to your ego to verbally put down others.Well at least you don’t resort to physical violence to satisfy your desire to hurt, I’ll give you that.

    • bonaventure

      A Catholic School is an extension of the Catholic Church.
      Anti-”discrimination” laws do not apply. The Church can REFUSE ANYONE SHE WISHES from her ministry positions, one of which is teaching.

    • FW Ken

      There are no “secular subjects” in a Catholic school. There are no “secular activities”.

  • Ron

    I believe this will clear up alot of confusion. Jesus told us that this would happen and many people would attack the Catholic faith. We need to stay strong and not waiver.
    Mathew 10: 16-22
    16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as
    serpents and innocent as doves. 17 “But beware of men, for they will hand you
    over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be
    brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to
    the Gentiles. 19 “But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what
    you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20
    “For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in
    you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and
    children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 “You
    will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to
    the end who will be saved.

    • michael susce

      I don’t want to read this…..but thank you.
      Aside: thank you Crisis Magazine. Sending my financial contribution today!!!

  • cestusdei

    Many already have.

    • Micha Elyi

      I assume you intended to respond to portlandcatholic, cestusdei.

      • cestusdei

        I meant that many Catholic schools gave up Catholic morality a long time ago.

  • BillinJax

    These protesters evidently are oblivious of or have no
    understanding or appreciation of the total acceptability of so-called
    “discrimination” as a matter of fact in job requirements based on
    professional standards or representation for public office positions. No
    degree, a criminal record, below age requirement, no apprenticeship equals no
    advancement or no entry.

    Millions of American have understood this and lived with it
    for years throughout their lives when seeking employment. We recognized the
    need and value of such “discrimination” to promote high standards
    within our society. These “standards” were set by a society which was guided by
    convictions based on a nation of people with self professed faith in God and
    our reliance on Judeo Christian values.

    As an example, during my business career I witnessed, as so
    many others I’m sure, very capable and talented individuals overlooked for
    promotions simply because of the restrictive requirements in a job description.
    Often these outstanding performers had to “break in” their bosses before
    reporting to them. This encouraged many of them to go back to school for a
    degree and advise younger workers to finish school before seeking their career.
    In other words we knew we had to work around the problem never wanting to have
    a fit and protest the standards demanding the right to change them or break the
    rules everyone knew were there to protect the integrity of a chosen profession or craft.

    • ForChristAlone

      Although in this case, we are not talking about just professionalism. We are talking about those professionals who use their skills to advance the mission of the Church which is to evangelize. Once we begin to understand that the Church is not some secular enterprise, we’ll begin to understand better the reasons why we hire the people we do (or ought to).

  • portlandcatholic

    I would be interested to know if at any time a teacher or administrator at a Catholic school has been terminated when it became known that he or she was living in sin with someone of the opposite sex. Since such an arrangement is against what the Church teaches in regard to sex within the sanctity of marriage, it too ought to result in termination of employment. If such cases have been routinely ignored, it seems to me that taking issue with same-sex “marriages” (which I am not condoning) is at the very least an inconsistent application of a Catholic school’s employment policies.

    • ForChristAlone

      Would you fire a Catholic teacher or administrator if you observed him or her take a host at communion, saw them pocket it and then saw them throw it in the trash?

      • Art Deco

        Yep.

        • ForChristAlone

          Thank God someone gets it. We’re just not talking about what someone does with their genitals. We’re talking about a range of behaviors that clearly contradict the dictum to preach the Gospel.

        • Objectivetruth

          Ditto.

    • Art Deco

      They should not be ignored. I tend to think if they had been, this would have been an issue in recent controversies. I do not recall it was ever mentioned.

    • Hugh_Oxford

      This is a good point.

      • Art Deco

        Only if the hypothetical cohabiting employees threw it in their superiors’ faces.

    • Paul McGuire

      Shouldn’t they have also terminated these teachers earlier because I assume they were “living in sin” with their partner prior to getting married. Many of them have so stated, that everyone knew they were gay and that they were partnered. Why wait until they get married to terminate them for violating church teachings?

      I do know of at least one recent case where a woman got pregnant at a time when she was not yet married and was terminated from her employment at a Catholic school for violation of the policies of the school.

      • Art Deco

        You mean you would not have objected had the school principal canned the vice principal when some third party told her the man was homosexual (rather than when he told her he was having a ‘marriage’ ceremony)? I’ll hold you to that in the future.

        • Paul McGuire

          No. I mean that it would make more sense that they were really terminating employees based on adherence to religious beliefs and not just jumping on the anti-gay-marriage bandwagon. If they knew about him being gay there for all these years and didn’t care to fire him for being with a same-sex partner it gives the impression that the clause is not taken seriously.

          • Art Deco

            What ‘anti-gay marriage bandwagon’? There was no issue for Catholic schools to address until Canadian courts decided that that country’s elected officials were not to be trusted to write the laws if they conflicted with what was fashionable in the legal profession.

            That aside, you are aware that administrators confront deficits of information in disciplinary matters and that human relations are regulated by manners and artifice? There’s a distinction between office scuttlebutt and an employee of yours throwing it in your face.

      • ForChristAlone

        Paul, you really are thick-headed. You are on a Catholic website that endorses orthodox Catholic teaching. There is no such entity as a homosexual “marriage.” If you insist on making this claim here, you are either proving you are an imbecile or you are deliberately intending to provoke. If the latter, stop acting so juvenile and so somewhere else to act out your personal demons.

        • Paul McGuire

          Yet the Catholic website is on the Internet. On the Internet, things are open to comment by anyone regardless of views. Though I used to be Catholic I don’t call myself Catholic anymore but I do still consider myself Christian. I had stopped checking this site for new posts to comment on for a while but I happened to see this article in my “Gay Marriage” feed so I read it and had to comment once I had read it.

          If there is no such entity as same sex marriage then why bother terminating them for entering into such a marriage? If it is just some fantasy in their heads then it shouldn’t affect anyone else at the school. Clearly such a thing threatens the administrators. I am myself married to a man and I can assure you it isn’t some fantasy but a true expression of a relationship.

          • ForChristAlone

            Please do NOT come here to defecate. The odor is very unpleasant.

            • TheAbaum

              But of course, some people are acclimated to the odor of scatol, they think it’s a pherome.

          • Objectivetruth

            CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:

            2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

          • TheAbaum

            On the Internet, things are open to comment by anyone regardless of views.

            No, they are not. The site owners have moderators. There are sites that record one’s IP address and ban the user.

            You never comment here unless you the topic is homosexuality, because that is your god.

            You know you’ll accomplish nothing here except to assert your existence and contentiousness.

            That makes you a …

            • michael susce

              No, Paul is made in the Image of God and needs to be spoken to with love and truth. And one of those truths is that his lifestyle justifies sex with children. Just like his loving relationship with another male, parents have a loving relationship with their children and can certainly guide them in the techniques of masturbation and oral sex without physical damage to them. Along with the acceptance of abortion which implies that if you can kill a child in the womb, you can certainly have sex with him/her outside the womb (not uncommon for centuries pre and post Rome during Jesus’ time). So Paul needs our love and truth so when he is alone with his thoughts and our prayers, he can come to the truth of what is good, beautiful and true.

              • Objectivetruth

                No, Abaum’s right.

                Prayers for Paul, yes.

                But he for years now on this website has promoted the sinful gay lifestyle. Which is particularly scandalous because he is a former Catholic. And from all signs, totally unrepentant.

                So like Saul of Tarsus, sometimes we all need a bolt of lightening to knock us to our senses.

                Paul (and other gay posters on this website) need to be told and reinforced that unrepentant mortal sin can (will) jeopardize their soul for eternity. THAT is showing someone love.

              • Giauz Ragnarock

                Your logic says that because men and women marry, men and women should be able to seduce, molest, and rape their opposite sex juveniles. Truly, only with the Holey Voyeur, Jesus, can one come to consenting adults should stick to consenting adults= child molestation is okay. You sir are a libeler.

            • Paul McGuire

              If I was violating a rule I would expect to have had a comment moderated and/or received a message from a moderator. The only moderation I have seen is when people respond to my posts with personal attacks and themselves get moderated.

              • TheAbaum

                For a lawyer, you don’t read well do you?
                There’s no right to post here, for you, me or anybody else. You could be removed for any reason, or no reason without notice.

                You are still a troll.

                No matter how how vigorously or often you tell yourself that what you do is love, it’s not, it’s violence against your body, the individuals that you do it with and a tawdry and dirty counterfeit of what a man and a woman do.

              • ForChristAlone

                Grow up, Paul. Use your common sense. If you need some parental figure to censure you because you habitually come to an orthodox Catholic site to spout your inanities, then the only conclusion one can reach about you is that you lack self-control. This is not surprising since you are unable to keep your sexual appetites in check.

              • TheAbaum

                ‘On the Internet, things are open to comment by anyone regardless of views.’

                ‘If I was violating a rule I would expect to have had a comment moderated and/or received a message from a moderator.”

                This is really rich considering recent events at Mozilla.

          • TheAbaum

            “I had stopped checking this site for new posts to comment on for a while”

            Liar. The articles of late have been about other matters, and you never post about anything but homosexuality.

  • JesusLovesEveryBody

    stupid people says gays aren’t God lovers, homosexual people also can be good catholics!!! Remember: JESUS LOVES EVERYBODY!!!,
    #LoveIsLove
    #IAmGayAndCatholic
    #ADIfferentLoverIsNotASin
    #TruthWillSetYouFree
    #CatholicChurchNeedsToAcceptGayMarriage
    #WeAllAreHumans
    #CatholicsAreCatholics

    • ForChristAlone

      What did Jesus mean in this past Tuesday’s Gospel when he told the Pharisees they would die in their sins? Of course, Jesus loves everybody. It’s just that not everybody loves Jesus.

    • Paul

      Gay people may say they love Jesus but they conveniently forget that Jesus tells people to love God with all their might. The God of Jesus is the same God of Judaism and is very explicit about homosuality. Would you love God and disobey God’s teachings ?
      I am also sure the incests, the pedophiles and any other sexual deviants out there could claim the same points you have earmarked. Moreover, Jesus loves everybody so long as they acknowlege their sins , but what I am hearing from you is that you are unrepentant …

      • Micha Elyi

        (1) Sure, Jesus loves everybody–including everybody gone to Hell, too.

        (2) Homosexuality is a lifestyle that, like the fornicating lifestyle, is in contradiction to Catholic faith and morals. So the shouter hiding under the alias Jesusloveseverybody is wrong when the shouter claims “homosexual people also can be good catholics!!!”

    • FrankW

      Jesus loves everybody, but Jesus does not love sin.

      One cannot read the Bible without coming to the conclusion that homosexual behavior is an offense against God. Only the intellectually dishonest would claim otherwise.

      Finally, please consider this: The teachings of the Catholic Church are based on the laws of nature. It is the laws of nature that prevent same sex couples from naturally procreating. Thus, nature has a built in prejudice against homosexual behavior. That prejudice cannot be removed by man, now or ever.

    • http://www.picsofcelebrities.net/blog/2012/05/08/voice-season-finale Cromulent

      Go and sin no more.

    • Objectivetruth

      Jesus loves you but your immoral sinful lifestyle has put you far from His love.

    • JesusLovesEveryBody

      you know?
      Catholic church must evolute, on old testament, prophets told gays aren’t right persons, but on new testament, Jesus NEVER tells something about it!!!, and everybody knows new testament is the most dependable of both, and when we die, Jesus ONLY will ask us How Much did we love each other! he won’t ask us if we were straight, gay, lesbian, bi……….. just he is gonna ask us if we did right actions and if we did give love!!!!!!

    • TheAbaum

      Borrring…

  • Vinnie

    “What if there are five less than fifty righteous people? Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?”

  • hombre111

    Although I think that, on some distant day, the Church will regret her teaching about gays, she surely has the right to fire people who choose to defy the behavior policies in schools and other Catholic institutions. There is a cost, of course, which the Church is willing to pay. In Seattle, hundreds of young people have been radicalized against this teaching of the Church. And way down here where I live, a young woman I have known for years told me she cannot continue with the Church because of its teaching about gays.

    • Art Deco

      Although I think that, on some distant day, the Church will regret her teaching about gays,

      I’d be fascinated to discover a bobo cause you wouldn’t endorse.

    • cpsho

      No the RCC will not regret her teaching on the grave sin of homosexuality. It is the rebels against this teaching that are regrettably heading for a very unpleasant place unless they repent ASAP. And repent we pray they do.

      • NewHackCity

        Are you saying they will be in hell? Wow! You must be an evangelical, you don’t sound very catholic to me.

        • Art Deco

          Hell is part of Catholic cosmology and sodomy is a mortal sin. Sorry to break it to you.

          • http://www.picsofcelebrities.net/blog/2012/05/08/voice-season-finale Cromulent

            He can’t tell the difference between sin and sacrament.

        • ForChristAlone

          Not hell, GEHENNA (Christ’s words)

        • Guest

          Are you familiar with Catholicism at all?

        • Objectivetruth

          CATHOLIC CATECHISM:

          2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

          1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

          • NewHackCity

            Ok, but you haven’t proven to me that just because someone is gay they are going to be in hell. I see what hell IS, but I don’t see where it says that gay people are going to hell, just that they are disordered… like every single one of us who sins every single day.

        • cpsho

          When somebody describes himself as “gay” he labels himself (on his forehead)with the Mark of the Beast (666)
          wwww.prophetamos3m.com/6.html
          When somebody engages in homosexual acts he labels himself with the Mark of the Beast (666) on his right hand
          (Revelation 13 v 16 -18)
          All such people are headed for the Lake of Fire unless they repent. (which we are praying they do)
          (Revelation 20 v 14)

          • NewHackCity

            Such messed up theology! There is no love in your faith. So sad

            • cpsho

              Reality, brother, reality. And the truth. We Catholics are here to pass on the message of our Lord Jesus the way it should be; we are not here to water it down. That is the challenge we face.

    • Guest

      You are too funny.

    • FrankW

      The day the Church regrets its teaching of God’s truth is the day the Church ceases to exist.

    • ForChristAlone

      And so….it’s a pity this woman you know is so determined to go to hell.

      • hombre111

        mmm I don’t think God works that way.

        • ForChristAlone

          From God’s mind to Hombre’s mouth….a prophet in our midst.

          • hombre111

            How about, the measure you use is the measure you will be measured by.

            • Objectivetruth

              2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

              • hombre111

                It doesn’t say they are on their way to hell. That is a judgment only God can make.

                • ColdStanding

                  If you die in a state of mortal sin, then it is damnation. It is the Church that teaches this. It is de fide. Therefore, we may safely concluded that the unrepentant sinner is on the way to hell. Not yet there, but on the way. There is still room for the intervention of God’s grace until the point of death, when there is repentance.

                  That some of those given the role of teacher ignore this salient point or don’t seem to know it does not mean that the Church as not taught it or that the faithful are either a) excused from believing it or b) going to escape the consequences of failing to grasp the point.

                  One must also keep in mind that God does not desire the death of the sinner. At the particular judgement, all the works of the soul are brought to light. Heaven or Hell will have been the free will choice of the soul. Can one go so far as to conclude that damnation is in point of fact, self-damnation? To blame God for our eternal death is, perhaps, umm, I don’t know, starts with a B. Oh, what is that word?

                  • hombre111

                    But how do you know the person is in the state of mortal sin? Let’s take the Baltimore Catechism analysis. In order for a sin to be mortal, three things are required:
                    1) Serious matter. It disrupts our relationship with God and neighbor.
                    2) Full knowledge. The person has to completely understand the nature of his actions.
                    3) Full consent. The person, knowing that his/her action disrupts a relationship with God and neighbor, freely and consciously does that thing.
                    Thoughtful reflection leads to several conclusions. 1) I cannot read the mind and heart of the “sinner.” The young woman in question is sincerely convinced that it is she, and not the Church, that hold the moral high ground on gay issue. 2) Mortal sins are actually rather rare. I doubt if anybody reading this post will say that he has knowingly and willingly gone through the process above. 3) This means that most of the evil in this world is caused by venial sin.

                    • ColdStanding

                      The mystic testimony of the saints has it that most people are a) damned and b) are damned not per se for being bad but for not being good enough.

                      What you are talking about is an absolute minimum standard meant to stimulate any good in the individual soul to begin to turn towards the goodness of God. They are first sprouts of grace. There is no evidence that they are enough of a response to God’s invitation to eternal life, pace the parable of the sower.

                      There is no sin God is incapable of forgiving, but that does not perforce mean all sins are, without asking for forgiveness, forgiven.

                      (Current) Pastoral theory has it that by lowering the bar, people would more readily acknowledge the awesome power of God’s mercy. Really, it has not happened. Most Catholics have simply sunk to the lower (non)standard.

                      Time to raise the bar again and really start preaching about what a serious affront to God sin is. When they want to tar and feather you before they run you out of town, you’ll know you are doing enough.

                    • hombre111

                      Mystics who were caught up in the dualism of neoPlatonism probably thought that way. But I guess if it floats your boat to see evil everywhere in everybody, go to it. Maybe you would agree with the Pakistanians who just attempted to put a baby on trial for murder.

                    • ColdStanding

                      Do you have someone you can go and talk to? Someone not on the internet? Is it possible for you to get some time off? Go some where and chill for awhile? There is more to life than knocking skulls against us goats here. We all need to recharge the batteries. Lent is almost done. Hang in there, padre.

                      I totally do not bare the slightest grudge against you or mean you ill even in my thoughts. If my words have irritated you, I apologize.

                      I thought you liked to mix it up and exchange views. My error.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      It’s not you, he’s pro gay. He doesn’t believe man can overcome his sexual temptations, sins and disorders and should be given a pass at the confessional booth when it comes to things like contraception and sodomy. and that gosh, these things are really not sins. And why? Only because he believes he’s right and the authoritative Church is wrong.

                      Pride and arrogance. “I shall not serve!” Good luck with that, hombre….

                    • ColdStanding

                      Very serious charges. It is a difficult time for all. The program that was suppose to bring a new spring of grace to the Church looks largely to have fizzled. Much confusion has resulted. I can not begin to imagine having reached the fullness of my days and have my life’s work look to be so much in question. I can understand the inclination simply not to look.

                      The situation is not good. Making a career out of one hand insisting that the perennial teaching of Holy Mother Church is wrong and apologizing for it on the other is not a cross I could bare. I recently witnessed my bishop apologizing before making the sign of the cross at a charity function where a few protestants were present. Still stinging from that one. It is not, however, as if I am without guilt.

                      But I see he carries on regardless.

                    • ColdStanding

                      Hmm. I did reply. Discus seems to have eaten it. Perhaps I am now under moderation. Meh.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      This reminds me of the quote: “The greatest trick the devil plays on us is that he makes us believe that he does not exist.”

                      “Mortal sins are actually rather rare.” Yea…..good luck with that also. Christ tells us that even to look at another person lustily we have committed adultery. God throws Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden for basically eating off limit fruit and it took His only beloved Son’s tortured, crucified death to reverse that “small, venial” of a sin.

                    • hombre111

                      Jesus also told us to put out our eyes and cut off our hands if they cause us to sin. The story of Adam and Eve was not a reporter’s account, but a poetic drama. Scripture scholars still argue about what the tree represented and what eating the fruit meant. It did not mean biting into an apple, as the literalists would have it. And the whole notion of original sin is a concept vastly wider than what a single man and single woman did in the Garden. Their sin exploded into the whole struggling burden of a sinful human race. Jesus died, not because of what they did, but because of what we do.

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Sure…..then God made us all idiots with no moral compass.

                      Your logic has always been one that the Ten Commandments are not “commandments” from God, but rather Ten “suggestions, recommendations, or options.”

                      And IF you are truly a priest, it is your job to inform the young woman in question of the Church’s teaching on the immorality of homosexual acts and gay lifestyles.

                      And what of the gay Catholic couple that has “full knowledge” of the sinfulness of their lifestyle but continues to obstinately and freely choose to live that lifestyle? There are many in our society that have made that choice, and they have certainly met all three requirements of mortal sin.

                      The bottom line hombre is that you are pro gay and with sinful pride have chosen to disobey the Church’s teaching on the subject.

                    • hombre111

                      The Ten Commandments do not mention gay behavior. I was not in the capacity of an authority figure, but a friend. I did not have to remind her what the Church says, she already knew. Like so many in her generation, she has gay friends who are loving, self-sacrificing people, and she will not allow the Church to condemn them to hell. As polls increasingly show, the Church has lost this battle.

                    • Guest

                      Is this a joke? The 10 commandments cover illicit sex acts including so called “gay” behavior.

                      Also, polls do not change truth. Good grief what rubbish.

                    • ColdStanding

                      OK that hits all three points you quoted from the Baltimore Catechism. Also you have knowingly contradicted the teaching authority of the the Magisterium by suggesting that the 6th commandment does not condemn sodomy. That too, is a three point hit on the Baltimore scale.

                      Which means you have publicly done what? a) Presented yourself as a priest of the Roman Catholic Church b) (ab)used the prestige of the Church and the sacramental honor of your priesthood to c) contradict the very teachings the Church, founded by Jesus Christ. In addition you have d) presented the Church, not as She truly is, namely supernatural in character, but as a merely natural political player in the and of the world. That is a condemned opinion. Condemned that is, because it is wrong.

                      All of which means you have _ _ _ _ _ _. Starts with an “s” and ends with a “d”, is one of two types, is the bad one of the two types.

                      So, will you be taking communion tomorrow? It is my duty as your brother in Christ to advise you to discuss the state of your soul with your confessor and your bishop, too.

                    • hombre111

                      I will be tranquilly celebrating Palm Sunday with a small mission community, and then at the state penitentiary.

                    • ForChristAlone

                      Now I see, you belong to the Church of the Polls. Founded by whom, Harris?

                    • Objectivetruth

                      You really are not a priest and just a pro gay troll, aren’t you?

                    • Objectivetruth

                      Notice how the Ten Commandments don’t specifically mention the word “abortion”? So I guess in your world abortion is A-OK too, eh, hombre?

                    • ForChristAlone

                      I would like to witness here a frank and ongoing conversation between Hombre and Paul Maguire. That would prove highly interesting as to how their minds operate.

                    • ForChristAlone

                      There are such things as damnable acts. Would you consider Nazi’s throwing Jews into ovens as damnable acts? The scriptures make no reference to Nazis but they do about homosexual acts.

                • Objectivetruth

                  We choose to put ourselves in hell. God in His infinite love gave us free will to choose Him or the path away from Him. The prodigal son chose to leave the love of his father, freely choosing a life of hell. The father did not put the son in that hell. Only his sorrowful repentance led him back to the love of his father.

                  • hombre111

                    I agree that we choose to put ourselves into hell, and God accepts our choice. In the story of the Prodigal Son, in that culture, the son deserved death, because he had publicly dishonored his father to the extreme. A father could kill a son for a defiant word, and the rest of the family would applaud. When the father ran out to the son, he probably saved his life from the vengeance of angry relatives. When the oldest son rebuked his father, it was public dishonor and also deserved wrathful consequences. But the father treated him with forgiveness and love. Anyway, that story tells us a whole lot more about the compassionate love of God, then it does about his vengeance and the certain fate of hell for most.

        • Asmondius

          Of course not – He would Never interfere with the foibles of humanity.

  • TheAbaum

    Note to Archbishop Sartain of Seattle:

    (or whoever has the unique displeasure of having “Father” Whitney in his priest corps (or “corpse” if you happen to be a certain graduate of Harvard Law))

    There are certain things effective leaders cannot allow and expect to retain credible actual authority. Actual and formal authority are different things. Failure to act when necessary will make your office effete and hollow.

    One of the things than can never be tolerated is defiant public insubordination. It is not patience or understanding to allow this man to remain in ministry, let alone to be a Pastor.

    Your Diocesan document “MANY GIFTS, ONE SPIRIT: CHURCH GOVERNANCE THROUGH CONSULTATIVE LEADERSHIP MANY GIFTS, ONE SPIRIT: CHURCH GOVERNANCE THROUGH CONSULTATIVE LEADERSHIP” states “Throughout her history, the Church has borrowed structures, models, and language from the ambient culture and society. Throughout her history, the Church has borrowed structures, models, and language from the ambient culture and society.

    Borrow then from the ambient organizational culture and squash this bug. I fully realize that Seattle is a squalid moral cesspool and this may not be popular.

    • Art Deco

      Whitney is a Jesuit of the California Province, a wretchedly corrupt bunch. Bishops I believe do have the authority to eject religious orders from their diocese as a rule, but if I am not mistaken the Jesuits and Dominicans have some immunities in this regard. I believe the bishop could remove him as a parish administrator, however.

      • ForChristAlone

        Please do not mention Jesuits and Dominicans in the same breath. The Jesuits are in dire need of a reformer. But who am I to judge?

        • TheAbaum

          The Jesuits are in dire need of an oncologist, although as graduate of a Jesuit school, I suspect the entire order is metastatic.

          • Art Deco

            Curiously, Fr. Joseph Fessio is a priest of the California province (and has been subject to harassment by his superiors, natch).

            • musicacre

              That’s because of his holiness.

  • concern00

    “liked by students, especially on the swim team, which he coached”

    Now that should be ringing some warnings bells already. They dodged a bullet by terminating Zmuda.

    • NewHackCity

      I know a heterosexual male teacher who coaches female basketball. I’m not sure what you are implying…

      • concern00

        I thought my implication was pretty obvious! It is supported by facts. For a minority they are statistically far more interested in your children? Check out the homosexuals scandals in the Catholic Church, the BSA, Hollywood, our schools. Their offences are statistically disproportionate to their population size.

        • NewHackCity

          Do you have any facts to back up your allegations that Zmuda was abusing children, or are you just being the accuser?

          • concern00

            I’m not accusing him of anything. Based upon the risk profile of homosexuals in regards to their abuse of youth, they have wisely mitigated their risk.

            And sorry facts? I can only assume you’ve heard of the homosexual scandal in the Catholic Church and other institutions. If not, Google it. Alternatively consult with an honest homosexual; they actually do exist.

            • NewHackCity

              You said they dodged a bullet by firing him… what’s the bullet? In regards to be a swim coach you implied he was going to abuse children. The facts I am looking for is to back up your claim that Zmuda abused children. Men are far more likely to abuse children over women (heterosexual and homosexual, no difference) Should all catholic schools fire male teachers because they are more likely to abuse children compared to woman?
              You are being slanderous about Zmuda by implying he abuses children. That, according to scripture, is going to send you to hell.

              • michael susce

                Simple: the heterosexual male basketball coach would not be allowed in the girls locker room. On the other hand, the homosexual swim coach is allowed in the men’s locker. Pure absurdity. This is the same problem in the military. Can anyone realistically believe that having homosexuals bunking with other heterosexual men be deemed normal and healthy. And in a brochure in my doctor’s office advocates and justifies immunization from certain sexually transmitted diseases BECAUSE teenagers are at the stage of “experimenting sexually”!!!!. This term is profound in its implications. If that be the case, why cant one experiment sexually with their coaches (homo or hetero). Both God and reason have been abandoned. Time to fast and pray.

                • ForChristAlone

                  And time to get rid of your MD (that is, after you tell him or her why). Parenthetically, my son has presented this dilemma to me and I gave him the same advice: “Don’t let him treat your children.”

      • Guest

        Heterosexuality is normal. There is the difference.

        • TheAbaum

          It’s more than normal, it’s essential to the continuation of humanity.

    • Funbud

      Still, judging from his photos, I’ll be Zmuda looks hot in a swimsuit.

  • concern00

    As it was for the Catholic Church, BSA, Hollywood et al, homosexuals continue to flock to those places where our children are to be found.

    It will take decades before this unravels and our children will pay the price.

    • Objectivetruth

      Gay and lesbian’s sinful, shallow narcissism demands an unnatural, disordered attraction to the physical beauty of youth and children. This is their main weakness that satan exploits most. A gay man should not be coaching a high school’s male swim team.

  • I_M_Forman

    Militant Homosexuality and the Catholic Church are incompatible. They cannot co-exist as the Militant Homosexuals are bent on destroying their biggest enemy – The Roman Catholic Church. Pagans, Nationalists, Nazis, and Communists have all sought to take out the Church. The Militant Homosexuals have no different a mindset than their predecessors. Once the church cleans out the supporters from within, which they will, make no mistake about that, then it will be smaller, but stronger and better organized then ever. It will still be a world-wide power that will continue to wield great influence. Anyone recall Blessed Pius IX. He was elected Pope in the 1800s and had a liberal reputation, until the church was strongly challenged from within and without (Bismarck). The result – He was the first Pope that the formal policy of infallibility was bestowed on by Vatican I.

    • Disgusted With These Views

      ‘predecessors’? The predecessors of homosexuals were Nazis and Communists? Homosexuality has existed just a little bit longer than the concepts of Nazism and Communism. Furthermore, the Nazis oppressed homosexuals, so it doesn’t logically follow that Nazism preceded homosexuality. By the way you write, it’s obvious that you think that you know everything about everything. However, your mind is toxic, intolerant, and lacking.

      • TheAbaum

        Your prose is toxic. Geez, take a breath.

      • Art Deco

        Organized homosexuality of a political bent is a very contemporary phenomenon most parts of the occidental world. There were no such organizations in this country until 1950 and they were obscure if not underground prior to 1969.

        Please note, Ernst Roehm, commander of the S.A. and 2d only to Hitler in the Nazi hierarchy, was homosexual and publicly identified as such. Students of the period have contended that pederasty was integral to Roehm’s world view and that the abuse of homosexuals in Germany can be understood as one homosexual subtype attacking another. If I am not mistaken, the number of homosexuals imprisoned during the regime was in the five digits, so the dimensions of the phenomenon were more than an order of magnitude smaller than was the case re the Jewish or Gypsy populations.

  • A J MacDonald Jr

    “Who am I to judge?”

  • NewHackCity

    I wonder if people have been fired for using condoms or birth control or getting a vasectomy? I guess you only get fired when it’s public, considered scandal and the political hot topic of the day.

    • Art Deco

      Is your supervisor rummaging through your drawers to find Trojans? Does he have access to your medical records? If the answer is no, why would you imagine this vice principal’s supervisor would fire him on matters she knows nothing about?

    • ForChristAlone

      What don’t you get? If you go around promoting the value of condoms or vasectomies (your own or someone else’s), you are publicly stating that you do not intend to proclaim the Gospel as the Catholic Church teaches. Go get a flippin job working for Planned Parenthood and figure out your plans about how you’ll be spending your eternity since it matters so little to you.

      You cannot very well actively engage in the mission of the Church if you do not agree with what the Church teaches. If you cannot fulfill your ministry in the Church, have the integrity to go somewhere else. The Catholic Church is NOT an equal opportunity employer. We are about the work of the kingdom. What’s so difficult to understand here?

  • Rosebud

    This is a case of both poor religious training and poor hiring. I’d bet these kids don’t know any Church dogmas. They should from their freshman year have vigorous religious training via the Catechism and backup from their priests. This is what happens when the teaching nuns go bye bye. Wouldn’t have happened before Vatican 11. Now even our bishops are afraid to say much. Perhaps the UCCB should lay out definite requirements to be teaching in Catholic schools. I’m wondering if there are any teaching nuns left, perhaps even in another country. If so, why not invite them to come here! What about some of our orders such as Franciscans or Dominicans? Good retired Catholic teachers? And the parents sound out of touch with Church teachings too. We may see the end of good Catholic schools if we don’t do something fast. The courts will probably be on the side of these apostate teachers.

  • bonaventure

    “Pressed to give up morality”???
    How ’bout, they just DON’T give it up?
    That simple.

  • bonaventure

    Who is that screaming priest on the picture?
    If he really is a priest, he should be identified, reported to his bishop, and defrocked.

    • Art Deco

      What bishop? He’s of the California province of the Society of Jesus, whose mission is the pursuit of single-malt scotch and sodomy.

    • Anne Hendershott

      He is Fr. Whitney – the same priest described in the article – the one who is hosting protests against the firing of the married gay vice-principal in Seattle.

  • Pingback: Catholic Schools Pressed to Give Up Morality | Catholic Canada

  • The one whom Jesus loved

    First of all Catholic schools do not only serve Catholic students. As a product of the Catholic School system, I learned many things about morality and the teachings of the Church. I know about what the Bible teaches as right and wrong. I also know that the Church has changed it’s teachings and laws over time to adress the overall churches beliefs and concerns. When the church says we must treat all with dignity and respect, but then fire them for getting married because we don’t recognize it as legitimate. We are hypocrites. The Catholic schools don’t fire people for going to Vegas and getting married by Elvis impersonators, but we don’t recognize those people as getting married. A civilly recognized marriage is not always recognized by the Church. So the Catholic schools are not being asked to give up morality, but to be equitable in matters of individuals civil rights. For God so loved the World… A world with so much sin that it would put his son to death. And your complaining about actively gay people teaching children. I think you may be too focused on the wrong kind of sin.

    • ForChristAlone

      I presume you no longer practice the Catholic faith because what you write is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches. Now go back to that Catholic school you attended and ask for a refund. In the meantime, be open to God’s grace as He alone can work miracles.

      • The one whom Jesus loved

        Actually, I am a practicing Catholic, and your bigotry and hatred are outside of what the Church teaches as well as Christ. So please repent because your soul is in jeopardy. I for one don’t want to be there when Jesus tells you “you don’t know me” You may be very studied in the art of dogma and tradition to further your personal hatred of your brothers and sisters, but an understanding of God’s message you do not have. You are not righteous.

        • Strife

          Your bigotry and hatred are self-evident in your heterodox rejection of the Church’s moral doctrines. Homosexuality is an intrinsic evil. It is a violation of Natural Law. That is immutable.

          “Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies simply because they become fashions” – G.K.Chesterton

          “Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts* for the mutual degradation of their bodies.v 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.w 26Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.x 28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29y They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips 30and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. 31They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” – Romans 1:24-32

          • The one whom Jesus loved

            It’s so plain to see the hatred you have in your hearts for homosexuals. You use quotes from a letter written to the Romans to support your zealot nature. If homosexuality is so condemnable why was it not in the 10 commandments, why didn’t Jesus the Lord make some specific mention of how unnatural and evil it is. While I love the Catholic Church, it is an institution of man. Founded be a man that denied Jesus three times. Stop being like the ones shouting crucify him, and try to be more like him.

            • Strife

              You couldn’t be farther from the truth. I have no hatred for a person who is burdened by the cross of homosexual desire. I have pity and sympathy for them. I do, however hate the sin of homosexuality because it is a burdensome cross on the poor soul, and if I truly love them as a brother – then why wouldn’t I hate the destructive activity?

              And what you are trying to espouse is theology-by-omission. And it’s a failed philosophy because it is inherently unreasonable.

              Your train of misguided reasoning thus follows: Cannibalism is not a sin because it is not listed in the 10 Commandments. Bestiality is not a sin because it is not listed in the 10 Commandments. But why aren’t those sorts of sins listed? Simple. Because they were clearly understood to be abominable acts contrary to Natural Law. And the same historical logic follows the Gospels. It isn’t that Christ never said anything about homosexuality – it’s that is was never recorded. Again, it was well established that it was an abominable act and a grave disorder. The Jews had always acknowledged this self-evident truth. So when highlighting the words and events of Jesus, it is no surprise that they never tell of His thoughts on this obvious sin. But of course, John even states that many things Christ said were never reported in Scripture, because “If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole
              world would not have room for the books that would be written.” – John 21:25

              But back to my original point – clearly Christ never viewed homosexuality as anything other than a grave sin – because the early Christians clearly followed this ancient moral observation. In fact – it is clearly stated in the first Catechism (The Didache) written in the first few decades after Christ and predating the first Gospels ever written. And of course, Paul’s teachings would hardly contradict Christ’s – especially since everyone already knew of Our Lords thoughts on the issue. And BTW – Our Lord clearly stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. And nowhere in the history of the Catholic Church do you ever find the acceptance of homosexuality as anything but a grave evil.

              And no – the Church was NOT founded by a mere man. It was founded by Christ Himself UPON a broken man: St Peter. And no that’s not a bad thing – but rather – that weakness IS the Church’s most beautiful strength of all. And that is exactly why there is mercy for all – especially the contrite of heart, like a person who sacrifices his inherent sinful weakness of homosexual desires for the chastity and purity of Christ:

              “When Christ at a symbolic moment was establishing
              His great society, He chose for its cornerstone neither the brilliant Paul nor the mystic John, but a shuffler, a snob, a coward – in a word, a man. And upon this rock He has built His Church, and the gates of Hell have not prevailed against it. All the empires and the kingdoms have failed, because of this inherent and continual weakness, that they were founded by strong men and upon strong men. But this one thing, the historic Christian Church, was founded on a weak man, and for that reason it is indestructible. For no chain is stronger than its weakest link.”- G.K.Chesterton

              • The one whom Jesus loved

                Wow, You really like this G.K. Chesterton guy. You fail to get the point, and I should expect that from orthodoxy. Your quite academic and leagalistic approach to arguments have driven so many from the church. You say things like hate the sin and not the sinner, why is hate even part of your words. Jesus certainly didn’t say that. You say you feel pity and sympathy for them and probably pray that they abandon their ways to come in union with you and the church, while I pray that through the sacrifice of Christ we may all be one in union with God. People like you need to have different levels of sin because you need to point out the weaknesses of others to prove to yourself how much better you are. Sin is sin. You speak of Homosexuality as unnatural yet you recognize that they are made in God’s Image. You call it unnatural, when it is found in nature. Which by the way so is cannibalism. You are so Proud of your knowledge of scripture and church teaching yet you lack the insight of what it all means. In the end know that I don’t hate you, I pray that this conversation made you think about your positions and how they turn people away from the Church and Jesus Christ. I hope that you understand that you are causing harm to the Church with your orthodoxy, but something tells me you don’t care.

                • Objectivetruth

                  I remember during the beginning of Pope John Paul’s papacy a bishop proudly told JP that there were now 600 million Catholics in the world. JP told him that he’d rather have one faithful Catholic than 600 million unfaithful Catholics. In John 6, thousands heard Christ proclaim repeatedly, and unwaveringly that unless one eats His flesh and drinks His blood they’d have no life in them. Thousands that day found Christ’s teaching that day too hard, and walked away from Him.

                  You choose. Are you going to change your life to follow Christ’s teachings in the Church, or are you a heretic that believes you can manipulate and change Christ’s teachings to fit your sinful lifestyle.

                  Here’s Christ’s teachings through His earthly mouthpiece, the Catholic Church, on homosexuality. What’s your move…..are you going to follow it, or walk away?:

                  • Objectivetruth

                    (Continued)

                    “2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

                • Objectivetruth

                  The Catholic Church calls homosexuality unnatural and disordered. I pray that this conversation will wake you up and that if you are supporting and practicing homosexual acts and lifestyles your eternal soul is in serious jeopardy. Do me a favor….show me where you have the authority given from Christ to say that the following Catholic teaching on homosexuality from the Catechism is wrong, and you are right. From what I recall, Christ gave authority over His teaching on earth to the Catholic Church, NOT TO YOU:

                  CATECHISM:

                  2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

                • Strife

                  You should get to know Chesterton.

                  The “academic and legalistic approach” has driven many from the Church? Really? Because Christ didn’t mince His words about the Law. Behold His words from the Sermon on The Mount, following The Beatitudes:

                  “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.m 19Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.* 20I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” -Matthew 5:18

                  (You say things like hate the sin and not the sinner, why is hate even part of your words. Jesus certainly didn’t say that.)

                  Uhm yeah. Yeah He did. Here’s is but one sample:

                  “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe [in me] to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna,* into the unquenchable fire. 44* 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life crippled than with two feet to be thrown into Gehenna. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna, 48where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’” – Mark 9:42-48

                  (You say you feel pity and sympathy for them and probably pray that they abandon their ways to come in union with you and the church, while I pray that through the sacrifice of Christ we may all be one in union with God.)

                  I pray that they abandon their sin; just like every single one of us is called to do including myself. Because that is the ONLY way we can truly be one in union with Christ – when we turn away from our sinful ways and turn to Him with a contrite and humble heart seeking reconciliation.That is exactly what Christ meant when He commanded:

                  “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.” – Matthew 16:24

                  (People like you need to have different levels of sin because you need to point out the weaknesses of others to prove to yourself how much better you are. Sin is sin.)

                  First of all – the Catholic Church teaches that some sins are more serious than others. There are venial and mortal sins. Christ made a clear distinction of this:

                  Jesus said to Pilate – “You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above. For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.” – John 19:11

                  John defines it further:

                  “If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly (mortal), he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin (mortal), about which I do not say that you should pray.l 17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.(venial)” – 1 John 5:16

                  And yes, I have indulged frequently in mortal sin. I am addicted to pornography and masturbation. Thank God I’ve been able to resist it more consistently as time goes on. I also committed adultery numerous times in the past. And I even forced a young woman into an abortion. Not to mention I left the Church for 20 some years. I’m do stranger to the spiritual deadness of Mortal sin. But Christ’s mercy has saved me – and it continues to save me. So brother – if you think I look down at homosexuals as morally inferior sinners compared to my soul – you have another thing coming. I want them to be saved from the slavery of their sin.

                  (You speak of Homosexuality as unnatural yet you recognize that they are made in God’s Image. You call it unnatural, when it is found in nature. Which by the way so is cannibalism.)

                  The homosexual act is unnatural.St Paul himself says this. And yes every human-being is made in God’s image. But that doesn’t mean that human-beings can’t indulge in unnatural acts. And it is obviously unnatural because it is contrary to our physical design and human paradigm. And even though it has been found in SOME lower species – the low percentage of incidents in those species clearly makes it a statistical anomaly even among them. And the fact is – in most mammals it is actually caused by miscues in the estros cycle. And furthermore, if you’re taking your moral cues from lower species – then you should have no moral objections to mimicking all their adverse actions, like: cannibalism, incest, pedophilia, pederasty, rape, murder without remorse, the consumption of their own waste, ect,ect….

                  (You are so Proud of your knowledge of scripture and church teaching yet you lack the insight of what it all means.)

                  How do you know that I am proud? Are you able to judge my heart? And the scriptural meanings I’m stating are not mine. They’re from the Church itself. They are found in the Catechism and in numerous writings from numerous Saints through the ages. These are not my ideas. And many of them are hard for me to live by.

                  ( In the end know that I don’t hate you, I pray that this conversation made you think about your positions and how they turn people away from the Church and Jesus Christ. I hope that you understand that you are causing harm to the
                  Church with your orthodoxy, but something tells me you don’t care.)

                  Well thank you. I appreciated the fact that you do not hate me. And yes I do care. I will consider your impression and heed your opinion while I pray and meditate on your words. If there is a better way for me to communicate these Truths – then I will listen for God’s instructions.

                  Peace.

        • Strife

          You’re not practicing Catholicism. You’re practicing heterodoxy.

          So if anyone in here needs to find a confessional and drop to their knees in contrition – it is most certainly you. You need to repent immediately. Your soul and all those souls you’re misleading are in immortal jeopardy. Our Lord said as much.

          “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.” – Mark 9:42

        • Art Deco

          and your bigotry and hatred are

          Calls to mind my father watching a feature story on Vanessa Redgrave many years ago. Early in the broadcast, they have her megaphone in hand with a crowd outside some public building (an Israeli consulate, IIRC) bellowing “free all political prisoners”. Dad rolls his eyes into his head and says, in a dour sing-song, “define political prisoner”.

          -

        • Guest

          Just asserting some error does not make it true. Calumny is a sin.

        • ForChristAlone

          Someone has unlocked the doors to the asylum.

          • The one whom Jesus loved

            Takes one to know one.

    • Objectivetruth

      Bovine droppings.

      Go peddle your purely gay, sinful, narcissistic agenda elsewhere. Or repent, and believe the Good News found in Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church.

    • Art Deco

      The Catholic schools don’t fire people for going to Vegas and getting married by Elvis impersonators,

      ‘Sez who? Why are you making ex cathedra pronouncements about personnel discipline at tens of thousands of Catholic schools?

    • Strife

      Name one Doctrine of Natural Law that the Church has ever changed. And then tell me – what new modern “wisdom” of “scientism” has suddenly redesigned the biological form and function of the human body for homosexuality?

      And then tell me what your moral objections are to incestuous marriages. Riddle me that.

      And then tell me – was St Paul’s open and strong rejection of homosexuality (as an “unnatural” sin) in the early Church in error of Christ’s teachings? What modern Divine wisdom can you cite for your antithetical revision of this Doctrine?

  • ifan

    Well, US’ morality is dooooommeeeeddd

  • The Truth

    they preach unity at the expense of the truth.

  • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

    “In a case in Arkansas when Tippi McCullough, a lesbian gym teacher at Mount St. Mary Academy in Little Rock was fired after marrying her female partner, the Human Rights Campaign, a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender advocacy group mobilized an audience of supporters and media reporters in a press conference last October to demand her reinstatement. ”

    The ultimate joke about the lesbian gym teacher should turn that one into a News of the Weird story.

  • Tat

    When are journalists going to do minimum research about Catholicism and recognize it is not a religion formed through majority vote? The Church does not have the authority to change Christ’s teaching or the moral framework of Salvation history. The ignorance of “journalists” on this issue is mind-boggling; I think they largely just want to ignore it in hopes it will change.

  • fredpiott

    While I am not Catholic, I see the same problems within the Catholic church as I do Christianity as a whole . . . Lots of pretenders in the pews every week, and even more pretenders who don’t even bother to do that much. God is clear on the subject of homosexuality. It is a sin and worthy of condemnation, just like every other sin!

    • Giauz Ragnarock

      When has Jesus been clear on anything. I am told he still lives and is omnipresent and omnipotent, yet no one can get a solid answer out of the guy. Jesus doesn’t seem to be a real, interactive person in any way.

      • fredpiott

        @ GR . . . You my friend are the centerpiece of how the truth appears as foolishness to non-believers. You cannot understand because you have chosen not to want to understand. Jesus is extremely clear on everything, yet humans routinely twist His teachings to meet their needs or simply do as you as deny Him . . . Just know that “the truth will set you free!” But He will not force you to seek the truth nor accept is as such. BTW, Jesus is willing and able to be as “interactive” as we are willing to allow Him to be!

        • Giauz Ragnarock

          “BTW, Jesus is willing and able to be as “interactive” as we are willing to allow Him to be!”

          People are not automatons. No one by their own approval can make a person more or less interactive. To everyone currently existing, Jesus has never talked to them. A world power, even a charitable one (World Vision for example), is knowable for all people even when not explicitly addressing a particular person (for example, a WV rep talking to someone about donating might get the notice of other people s/he was not talking with). On the other hand, through people we can know other people. Jesus isn’t here to ask, “Who’s that guy you’re talking with?” A person incapable of being more interactive than what thoughts pass through one’s mind is an automaton of one’s mind.

          • fredpiott

            SO because YOU choose not to believe, there is no way others can believe? Do you seriously not see the hypocrisy of your words?

            • Giauz Ragnarock

              You answer your own question, sir. You acknowledge what I say and yet you believe, do you not? You prove that it is possible.

              • fredpiott

                As is typical of non-believers, you are excellent at double-speak. Require of others that which you do not require of yourself!

                • Giauz Ragnarock

                  I’m not sure what you are trying to communicate, but I think we both got across what we wanted to. I leave the conversation at that. Nice talking to you.

                  • fredpiott

                    Why am I not surprised that you don’t understand?

  • NDaniels

    With all due respect, one cannot be a follower of The Christ if one is not in communion with Christ and His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, The Catholic Church. Regardless of ancestry, desire, or consent, every human person, from the moment of conception, has been created in The Image and Likeness of God, equal in Dignity, while being complementary as a son or daughter. We are not in being, our sexual desires/orientation. Regardless of ancestry, desire, or consent, we remain in being, a man, or woman, a son or daughter, a brother or sister, a husband or wife, a father or mother, ; God did not order us to live our lives in Loving relationship as objects of sexual desire in direct violation of God’s Own Commandment regarding lust and the sin of adultery. To suggest that in being we are objects of sexual desire/ orientation is not only an example of atheistic materialism, which like abortion, objectifies the human person, it is a lie from the start. Any act that does not respect the inherent personal and relational Dignity of the human person is disordered because it is not oriented to authentic Love.

  • BillinJax

    Our world today is in love with “love” which to most is attached primarily to the flesh in their sexual desires.

    Biblical love is all together different. This is the “love” which forms the very nature of God and His Holy Spirit and came to us in the personage of Christ calling us to share it among ourselves for the glory of His Creation. This creative love was extended to man in the unique gift of procreation by God’s benevolence in forming woman expressly for that purpose. Any deviation devised or imagined by man which attempts to deny this truth or willfully pervert this God given nature for his own pleasure offends both our nature and His love for us.

    • NDaniels

      Our world today does not recognize there is a difference between Sexual Love as God intended, and sex; Love is not possessive, nor is it coercive, nor does it serve to manipulate for the sake of self-gratification; only in an ordered, complementary communion of Love, between a man and women, united in Marriage, as husband and wife, can two become one body, one spirit in Love, creating a new Family.

  • Tony

    I think, sometimes, if we turned off our televisions for a year, and our computers, and just lived like normal human beings, and paid attention to such humble creatures as grass and trees and animals, and flushed out the mass-marketed sex, mass-marketed politics, mass-marketed everything, we’d clear our heads, and we’d wake up from our complete insanity. We’d say, “Of course, everybody knows that a boy and a girl shouldn’t be shacking up.” We’d say, “Of course, everybody knows that a boy is for a girl and a girl is for a boy.” We’d say, “Of course, everybody knows that when you get married it’s for keeps.” We’d say, “Of course, everybody knows what smut is and why it’s bad.” Madness … of course, you shouldn’t kill your own offspring. Of course, the sexes are beautiful, and of course, they have their weaknesses, and of course we know what they are, it doesn’t require a genius …

  • Aliquantillus

    This disastrous development is, alas, a fate that the Catholic Church has called upon itself. Since the Second Vatican Council a flood of moral relativism has penetrated the Church and Catholic schools and other organizations. The authority of the Magisterium has completely eroded, to such a degree that a modernist like Card. Walter Kasper, who wants “pastorally” to adapt the Church’s teaching on sexual morals to the current public opinion, is treated with sympathy by the Pope.

    The only way to uphold Catholic identity is to enforce Catholic doctrine and practice in Catholic institutions. This implies showing parents and pupils who don’t agree with Church teachings the hole of the door. Officials and teachers who don’t uphold Church doctrine and morals should be fired. Throughout all ages the success of Catholic culture has been the courage to be intransigent.

    But nowadays we have a disgusting Pope whose only concern is to be popular with gays: “Who am I to judge?”, and an Archbishop and Cardinal like Dolan who says: “Good for him”. The leadership of the Church is full of despicable cowards.

  • The_Monk

    A couple of years ago, as Washington state was debating “same-sex marriage”, the Archbishop in Seattle wrote a letter to be read at each parish. One or more parishes in Seattle refused to read the letter. Don’t know what the Archdiocese did, but obviously it hasn’t had any impact on St. Joseph’s.

    Not sure why the Archdiocese hasn’t advised one and all that support of “gay marriage” is a mortal sin, and until repentance and the sacrament of Reconciliation, any supporter of “gay marriage” should refrain from Communion. It seems that, like being “pro-choice”, adhering to a belief that is at odds with Church teaching is a matter where the person effectively excommunicates from the Church. Meaning no formal declaration is needed.

    Some very bad instruction and weak instructors have allowed the situation to come to the point we have. Mary, Undoer of knots, pray for us….

  • disqus_HSjqCQGjbz

    I am scared and worried about my ability to speak my mind and even to earn a living in this new America…

    • Giauz Ragnarock

      You never shed a tear for people who were not white, blue eyed, blonde haired, right handed, straight, Christian, natural-born USA males throughout history that have had much worse to contend with. I am not going to lessen whatever you are feeling, just have a heart for other people, too.

      • disqus_HSjqCQGjbz

        How in the world can you claim to have any idea what has or has not caused me to cry? And why have you limited your heart to exclude feeling for any of those groups of people you have just deemd unworthy of such?

        • Giauz Ragnarock

          Sorry, for being judgemental of you. I wanted to illustrate that a lot that you fear others have feared under the leadership of Christian majorities (usually something like the above demographic). I’m asking, what about when they feared? In many places even today gay people, divorced/remarried people (especially women), and those in mixed race/faith marriages could say what you have said almost word for word.

          • disqus_HSjqCQGjbz

            Thank you for apologizing, and I accept that. I think I understand your point. However, my point may not have been so clear. I am afraid that my heretofore right to express my opinions and follow my religious beliefs – whether they are popular or not – is being restricted in such a way that even my ability to earn a living may be constrained. There is a great difference between following my conscience and engaging in “hate speech”, yet the new “normal” seems to be that they are one and the same. That is not American and it is not fair. It doesn’t matter what your race, gender, orientation, language, hair or eye color, economic class, or anything else. What has always made America “great” has been, among other things of course, the right to hold and express one’s opinions without risk of being arrested or losing one’s job because of them. That is quickly changing.

            • Giauz Ragnarock

              The cases where people have lost their jobs or come under bad press seem to all involve powerful businessmen who have done more than speak their mind (some like Dan Cathy and Brendan Eich actually wielded their positions and financial power to support causes that have caused real world detriments to peoples’ lives). Other cases of limiting free speech have involved people repeating a message to people who asked to be left alone to the point that they were committing harassment. Certain right wing Christian groups have made continued misuse of other people’s research to make statements encouraging mistreatment of LGBT+ people or otherwise outright slandering them. The ideal is that you can say whatever you want, but speech that could encourage detrimental treatment of others or actions that accomplish the same can be legally addressed.

              On following your religious beliefs: I was not aware a straight person ever needed to learn not to have sex with a person of their own gender. We tend to never ever have any feelings that might come close to prompting this. We straight people follow that particular religious belief whether we believe or not. Why would a gay person without such beliefs follow them? Consequently, gay people who do share those beliefs try to remain celibate or try to make straight marriages work. When laws seem to favor one’s beliefs about religion over all others, people tend to push back.

  • simplynotred

    The identity of what is Catholic Faith is to love the sinner and hate the sin. It has not changed nor will it ever chance. Gay marriage, and the Gay lifestyle is always to be hated. Gay men and women do not excommunicated themselves from the church because they have Gay tendencies, but that they refuse to conform those tendency and eventual actions to the Will of God.

    It is no different then adulterous men and women, if the adulterous men and women continue to act upon their tendency’s they in effect excommunicate themselves from the Catholic Faith. So why change now? Whats all this about the whole of the Catholic Faith is now suppose to ignore God and to bow down to some emotionally disturbed adults who want their cake and to eat it too. Because it trendy, fashionable, because some secular Supreme court Justice said its OK to be Gay. Sure in the World, but NOT in the Church.

  • john

    Why does the author call the homosexual partners “husbands” and “wives”?

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  • AntiNihil

    What? Shall American herdlings of gelded infra-masculine voluntarily commit suicide, so acquiescently? Where is American valor?

    The circumstantial reality creates a special extra-ordinary mandate upon the personal heroic individual in these historical lows of savagery… Autonomously, organize syndicalist-style bands of counter-subversive Platonic “Guardians”, Americans dwellers in contemporary Sodom, – before time burns fast, and the Nihilist-Sadist power-wolves of Nothingness and Sathanas, at your door, for your lives, children, innocence, and souls. “Legally.” PROTECT THE SPIRIT-LIFE OF YOUR OFFSPRING AND PROGENY, EMBATTLED MINORITY… “Virtue=vice” is the equation of every infra-human degenerated Adam-ape, every criminal organization of amorality, every “initiatory” Assassins network of antinomian villainy – DO NOT LET DE SADE AND STIRNER CONQUER!

  • Valentin

    If there were enough Catholics left in the country we could start a new country that is controlled by secularists but rather someone faithful to Christ the Prince of Peace and the King of Heaven. but it seams that our numbers are waning and faithful Catholics are a minority even in traditionally Catholic states like Maryland (the state named after The Blessed Mother).

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  • doomsdae

    A nation without a moral compass will fall. Humans have very short memories about the past, especially church history. Look at the great nations of the past. What brought them down? “Immorality.” Rome was a great powerful and wealthy nation but their demise was rampant immorality from abortion to Sodomy. Sodom & Gamorrah, the Great Flood and many others. We just don’t learn!! The arrogant Judges, politicians and people of power are going to fall just like the arrogant hierarchy in our church. What we must do as loyal sons/daughters of the Roman Catholic church is not buy into this so we do NOT lose our souls. In the end, we will all be accountable to the one and only “mighty Judge Himself.”

  • kpm

    Charlotte is scary..mimicking evangelicals!

  • MarcAlcan

    The Aquinas College statement apologized for a lecture that divided the campus; this result is “not something the College condones or desires to create…. There is division where there should be unity.”

    Dumb and hilarious from the administration of Aquinas college.
    Are you seriously thinking that in case of doctrinal error there should be unity? Seriously?
    Lesson 1: Jesus’s disciples disappeared during the discourse on the Bread of Life. Catholic teaching will ALWAYS be a cause of disunity. It cannot be helped as there are many sectors within the Catholic church rooting for the prince of darkness.
    Do no bemoan the dis-unity. If there is dis-unity in the school it is because of the LGBT mob who has decided to dis-unite themselves from the Church.

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