Anglicans Set to Remove Satan from Baptismal Rite

Queen Elizabeth baptism

Declaring that the devil has departed from the Church of England’s baptism service, the Guardian reported on June 20 that “a simplified baptism which omits mention of the devil” is now favored by the clergy who have test-marketed it throughout the United Kingdom. Claiming that the traditional rejection of the devil and all rebellion against God “put off people who are offended to be addressed as sinners,” clergy claimed that they found it much easier to ask parents and godparents to make vows that do not mention Satan.

Responding to a population “which sees no pressing reason to spend Sunday mornings or any other time in Church,” the Guardian reports, the new and improved baptism service also deletes the instruction to the godparents that the child will keep God’s commandments, and learn what a Christian “ought to know and believe to his soul’s health”—promising only that the church “shall do all that we can to ensure that there is a welcoming place for you. We will play our part in helping you guide these children along the way of faith.”

The proposal to delete the devil from the ritual received initial approval by the House of Bishops and will be debated by the Anglican General Synod in York this July. If approved, these changes may reveal that the Church of England is losing its sense of sin—and its need for salvation. More than 60 years ago, T.S. Eliot wrote about the sense of alienation that occurred when social regulators—like the church—began to splinter and the controlling moral authority of a society is no longer effective. He suggested that a “sense of sin” was beginning to disappear. In his play “The Cocktail Party,” a troubled young woman confides in her psychiatrist that she feels “sinful” because of her relationship with a married man. She is distressed not so much by the illicit relationship, but rather, by the strange sense of sin. Eliot writes that “having a sense of sin seems abnormal, she believed that she had become ill.”

Writing in 1950, Eliot knew that the language of sin was declining even then. Yet most of us would assume that the concept of sin was still strong because the churches—like the Church of England—seemed so strong. Looking back, though, it seems that the sense of sin was already beginning to be replaced by an emerging therapeutic culture. Within a growing culture of liberation, people no longer viewed themselves as sinful when they drank too much, took drugs, or engaged in violent or abusive behaviors. Rather, such actions were increasingly viewed as indicators that such individuals were victims of an illness they had little control over.

Sociologist Philip Rieff warned in his now-classic book of the 1960s, The Triumph of the Therapeutic, that “psychological man was beginning to replace Christian man” as the dominant character type in our society. Unlike traditional Christianity, which made moral demands on believers, the secular world of “psychological man” rejects both the idea of sin and the need for salvation.” The transformation is now complete in the Church of England.

Satan has been called an “evil genius” because he has been able to convince so many that he does not exist. In his satirical Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis creates a senior demon named Screwtape who is instructing Wormwood, his young protege, on how best to capture a soul for hell. He tells him that the most effective thing he can do to bring souls to hell is to convince people that Satan does not even exist. “The fact that devils are predominantly comic figures in the modern imagination will help you. If any faint suspicion of your existence begins to arise in his mind, suggest to him a picture of something in red tights, and persuade him that since he cannot believe in that, he therefore cannot believe in you.”

Unlike the Church of England, which is helping people move away from thoughts of the devil, Pope Francis has spoken often of Satan as the “prince of this world,” and the “father of lies.” He cautioned in his book On Heaven and Earth that, “Satan’s fruits are destruction, division, hatred and calumny.” In response, the faithful are beginning to flock to a shepherd that reminds them that it is the “work of the devil” to ignore the plight of the poor and to reject the humanity of all persons—including the weakest and least powerful.

One wonders why the Church of England will even bother to perform baptismal ceremonies at all when the real purpose of such a service has been lost. Rituals are important, though, as author, P.D. James writes in her chilling novel Children of Man. Set in a dystopian world in the year 2021 in which the entire human race has become infertile, the author describes a society in which the last child had been born two decades earlier, and where the “new trend” in cities such as London is to hold elaborate christening ceremonies for kittens—replete with flowing white christening dresses and lace bonnets for the feline newborns. In such a society, the clergy is pleased to preside over the ritual because it gives so much joy to the childless “parents” of the kittens.

The Church of England’s revised baptismal ritual will be voted upon next month in Kent at their General Synod. It will likely pass because it has been driven by a powerful division within the clergy, which is determined to demonstrate that the Church of England is a progressive church that no longer needs to recognize the need to renounce Satan in order to live in the freedom of the children of God.

Editor’s note: This column first appeared June 25, 2014 in the Washington Times and is reprinted with permission of the author. Pictured above is Queen Elizabeth II held by her mother on the day of her christening in 1926. (Photo credit: Pa)

Anne Hendershott

By

Anne Hendershott is Professor of Sociology and Director of the Veritas Center at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. She is the author of Status Envy: The Politics of Catholic Higher Education; The Politics of Abortion; and The Politics of Deviance (Encounter Books). She is also the co-author of Renewal: How a New Generation of Priests and Bishops are Revitalizing the Catholic Church (2013).

  • OneTimothyThreeFifteen

    ….the “new trend” in cities such as London is to hold elaborate christening ceremonies for kittens—replete with flowing white christening dresses and lace bonnets for the feline newborns…

    Presuming the ‘new trend’ is in quotes, as it’s simply the anti-type of the Great Cat Massacre, which was no fiction either.

  • RufusChoate

    The Tudor Church is moving into closer conformity with the spirit of its founding Principality by ignoring him.

  • Dick Prudlo

    One doesn’t require a trip to England to see this phenomena. One visit to your local parish will suffice. Either all of saints of heaven have been embodied and are showing up for self communication, or the concept of sin is now murder only. The confessional is as empty as a drum and most priests need only set aside about 5 minutes a month for its execution.

    The “Springtime Church” is already there, just hasn’t been formally proclaimed, YET!

    • Scott W.

      The confessional is as empty as a drum and most priests need only set aside about 5 minutes a month for its execution.

      That’s not my experience. My parish is very middle-of-the-road and needs to add more confession times because the two on Saturday have people lined up out the door.

      • Dick Prudlo

        Very happy to here that Scott. But, me thinks you need to survey the landscape.

        • Dick Prudlo

          Oh, and by the way, what does middle of the road mean?

          • Art Deco

            The Diocese of Syracuse is middle-of-the-road.

            A more pervasive problem is an absence of votive candles. Eastern-rite parishes are assiduous about having them and multiple banks of them. I ask the pastor at the local Novus Ordinary parish whether there are votive candles I have just not been able to find. “No. Puts smudges on the walls. It’s a fire hazard too”. A pastor in the Diocese of Rochester tells me there’s too much wood in his nave and sanctuary. Pull up some carpet, put down tile, perhaps purchase a butane lighter in lieu of matches? Oh, no, that evinces problem-solving ability. Cannot have that in the clergy.

          • Scott W.

            Your standard AmChurch parish. Meaning not dissenting, but not particularly traditional.

            Now, as someone who volunteers as a cantor at the nearby Latin Mass in the afternoon, I would agree there are LOTS of problems with typical AmChurch–jokey homilies, terrible and insipid music, armies of EMHC’s ensuring that reception of the Eucharist is as fast as McDonalds. The landscape IS terrible, no denying that.

            But the sacrament of reconciliation seems to be one thing in my experience that laity seek out even if the parish administration has a lackadaisical or even dismissive attitude toward it. I travel a lot around the country and visit lots of parishes and usually confession time is loaded. I always try to arrive a few minutes early, but only occasionally am first in line.

            I have to wonder if it is a lay movement in a manner of speaking. That is, laity can’t really do much about bad liturgy because of the Cabals of banality that run most parishes, but they can (and do in my experience) load up confession time to the point it can’t be ignored.

            • Art Deco

              What you’ve seen is more agreeable than what I’ve seen.

      • Guest

        A rarity for certain.

      • Josephine

        Some priests are no longer interested in Christianity. Their only concern is to be loved by politicians and the pro-abortion homosexual mafia. I think to myself- why not become a politician instead of blocking the way for more orthodox priests that teach authentic truth? Because it is all a conspiracy, and diabolic conspiracy we have let ourselves succumb to by not ‘being smatter than children of the world’ as Christ commanded us to be.

    • Art Deco

      The confessional is as empty as a drum and most priests need only set aside about 5 minutes a month for its execution.

      No need to exaggerate for effect.

      A dedicated hour a week is about normal in the Diocese of Syracuse. In my experience, the priests are not too busy even with that circumscribed quantum of time.

      That having been said, it is disgusting the way some priests act to discourage confession. One parish I know of (St. Mary’s in Clinton, N.Y.) was using its confessional to store folding chairs. Then it was removed entirely and parishioners were directed to a side room with a pro-forma barrier. The priest-perpetrator is still the administrator there.

  • FernieV

    These progressives may have never read the Gospels… And I guess the new development will soon be Christian Anglicans calling on the Catholic Church asking to be admitted into a Church which believes and practices the basic teachings of the Gospel.

  • Aliquantillus

    What is happening on a formal and official level in the Anglican Community is happening in an informal and unofficial way in the Roman Catholic Church. Where is the perception of sin in the Catholic Church today? It is almost completely gone. And Church discipline is so weak, that any Catholic priest can baptize a child without mentioning sin or devil. What do Catholics know of their own faith and about the categories of actions that are called mortal sins? Ask the average Catholic about the Church and the contents of the faith and he will say something like that we love everyone and shouldn’t judge others. Pope Francis’ infamous statement: “Who am I to judge” has done its work and its harm will not be undone for generations.
    The Anglican Church is at least honest in its wickedness. The Catholic Church is deeply duplicious and hypocritical. It keeps up official doctrine, but nobody, not even the Pope, does believe it. That’s why its clergy has invented the instrument of pastoral adaptations, to gradually and silently undermine the discipline of the Church and the faith itself.

    • publiusnj

      “The Anglican Church is at least honest in its wickedness.” The Anglican Church has not been honest about much since it went along with Elizabeth’s Acts of Supremacy etc in 1559. Prior to that, it had been faithful from 1554 to 1558 but only because its “Head” had acknowledged the Papacy again. The Anglican Church went from bad to worse thereafter, even betraying its Head again in 1688 and thereafter.

      • Art Deco

        It was C.S. Lewis’ denomination. Sixty years ago, it had much to recommend it and was experiencing a minor institutional revival. It self-immolated after 1963.

        Re it’s American affiliate: In my own experience, rectors ordained prior to about 1950 were serious men (though the bishops of that vintage let James Hashcookies Pike off the hook). Those ordained during the period running from about 1950 to 1970 (and those of similar age cohorts who had gone into the ministry as a second or third career) were not altogether inane and many had given up serious employment to go into the ministry.

        The younger cohorts for all the world seem to be staffed with people who wanted to be den mothers on salary. They want to ‘do ministry’, but the object of that ministry is feel-good pap or the promotion of dysfunctional ‘niceness’. Actual moral teachings are an impediment to them.

        • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

          I could say the same for Roman Catholic Priests ordained between 1956 and 1986. And the chaos that ensued especially from a lack of sense of sin surrounding the vow of celibacy.

          And I say that even as I honor those who despite the chaos, kept their sense of sin, the dignity of their office, and the generations of school children in most parishes that weren’t abused.

          • Art Deco

            From survey research I’ve seen and personal experience, my guess would be that about a quarter of the Catholic priests ordained during those years are trustworthy.

            Re Anglican vicars, you do find some in those cohorts interesting to talk to; the best examples I can think of had long careers in the business world or the military ‘ere going into the ministry. I knew one fellow doing missionary work in Senegal. As for the ordinary run, the share who are trustworthy drops to zero in my experience. The only asset they have is a certain congeniality. They just seem steeped in their own unseriousness.

            The maddening feature of the age is that you have agreeable dealings with repairmen, pharmacists, dentists, accountants, &c. You can respect some teachers (though hardly ever school administrators). As for the helping professions, they’re generally a godforsaken disappointment; it’s a surprise when they’re not. It’s as if all the world’s inadequate people are attracted to those occupations like iron filings to a magnet.

          • Ted

            don’t paint priests of three decades with such a broad brush – many are more authentically catholic than the new breed of fiddle backs with little pastoral sense that are plaguing our church of late!

            • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

              At least the new ones aren’t messing around with the altar boys as much.

              • Willam Nat

                Wow, you’re so funny. If the Catholic Church is only confronted with enemies with your “wit,” it has nothing to fear.

                • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

                  Sad to say, I’m not an enemy. But the 1% of homosexual “laid back” priests were.

            • Art Deco

              new breed of fiddle backs with little pastoral sense

              I gather someone told you what you didn’t want to hear.

        • DJR

          The Anglicans formally endorsed mortal sin yet again in 1930 when they positively asserted that artificial contraception is moral. There can never be an institutional revival in any institution which is based on heresy. The “self-immolation” occurred in the 16th century, not the 20th.

          • Art Deco

            “Institutional revival” is a sociological assessment, not a theological one. No need to be a blockhead.

            • DJR

              How can the assertion of an “institutional revival” of a church not be a theological assessment? Churches deal in theology, not sociology. In any event, even on a sociological level, there has been no “institutional revival” of the Anglican Church. There has only been decay, and it was from Day One.

              • Art Deco

                How can the assertion of an “institutional revival” of a church not be a theological assessment?

                Because it refers to how commonly men present themselves for ordination and attendance at services. More difficult to measure, it refers to an institutional self-understanding as transmitters of a received faith.

                This is not that difficult to grasp.

    • http://dabidross.com David Ross

      Aliquantillus: Lest sentiment trump reason, let’s examine the facts. In 2013 Pope Francis asked: “If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?”

      This “infamous statement”, as you call it, is not really a statement at all, and it is the opposite of infamous–”woe to those who call evil good and good evil.” (Isaiah 5:20)

      If the Holy Father’s question “harms” anything at all, it harms only our self-righteous pride. In this case, we should thank the Pope and pray that his verbal anti-venom has indeed “done its work and its harm will not be undone for generations.”

      I strongly disagree with, and am saddened by, your dark assessment of our Church and Her visible head, the Pope. What a dreadful scandal it is when we Christians persecute Christ–and that is what we do when we disparage and calumniate the Servant of the servants of God.

      “He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother.” (St. Cyprian, Treatise 1)

      You and I live both inhabit the same fallen culture of death, so why are our views on the Pope and the Church so different? Perhaps it is partially due to my relative lack of loyalty to man-made political ideologies. Perhaps it is partially due to the fact that I am a relatively new Catholic, having come to the faith in 2009 after 25 years of atheism.

      In any case, submitting to the loving guidance of St. Peter, I am prepared now to defend, God willing, with gentleness and respect, the supernatural hope which I have received from His pillar and foundation of the truth, the Catholic Church. (cf 1 Peter 3:15, Romans 10:14, 1 Timothy 3:15)

      Yes, the Popes are all helpless sinners, completely dependant on God, who alone is good. Is this idea controversial?-does it give us a reason to doubt Christ?

      My own cautious entrance into the safety of the Church was helped, not hindered, by the jarring but inevitable contrast between creature and Creator.

      One unavoidable philosophical consequence of the abyss which separates the finite from the infinite is paradox; i.e., apparent (but not genuine) contradiction. Christians have always embraced paradox–if we are to ask deep questions and yet remain sane, we don’t have any other choice.

      As the Saints have always known, the simultaneous purity and corruption of the Church is one such deep and unfathomable mystery:

      “How low! Yet how sublime! At the same time tent of cedar and sanctuary of God; an earthly tent and a heavenly palace; a mud hut and a royal apartment; a body doomed to death and a temple bright with light; an object of contempt to the proud, yet the bride of Christ. She is black but beautiful, daughters of Jerusalem: for though the hardship and sorrow of prolonged exile darkens her complexion, a heavenly loveliness shines through it, the curtains of Solomon enhance it. If the swarthy skin repels you, you must still admire the beauty; if you scorn what seems lowly, you must look up with esteem to what is sublime.” (St. Bernard, Sermons on the Song of Songs, Sermon 27,Chapter 14)

      The Catholic Church is like a whore-house; several early Church fathers said as much when they identified the harlot Rahab and her whore-house as types of the Church, outside of which no one can be saved. (see, e.g., Homilies on Joshua by Origin, and Letter 52 of St. Jerome) But we Catholics are bound to believe that the Church is, in spite of everything, a perfect society. (see, e.g., Quanta Cura by Pope Pius IX, and Immortale Dei by Pope Leo XIII)

      You simply can’t improve the perfection of Christ and his Mystical Body. You and I, on the other hand, have plenty of room for improvement. God help us all.

      St. Peter, pray for us.

      • Neihan

        Well said, thank you.

        • http://dabidross.com David Ross

          God bless you.

      • bonaventure

        Good apologetic, but you have not answered Aliquantillus’ concern, especially the infamous quote by Bergoglio.

        What you do not seem to understand in spite of all your quotes from the Church Fathers etc, is that the answer to Bergoglio’s infamous quote (“who am I to judge”) is very very simple: he is the Bishop of Rome, the Successor of Peter, the First Among Equals, the Pope. And in the Church, founded by Christ on Peter, the pope is the highest legislator, executive, and — yes — judge.

        Homosexuality is a very grave sin <– and Bergoglio is the successor of Peter to say that much. In fact, he's got the responsibility to say it loud and clear.

        Homosexualism is a terrible heresy (in fact, it's an apostasy whenever it has crept into the Church) <– and Bergoglio is the successor of Peter to call the apostates on it.

        • http://dabidross.com David Ross

          bonaventure: Thank you for your reply.

          First, an important distinction must be made: While it is true that homosexual acts are sinful, homosexuality is not sinful, per se. I am a selfish liar and thief by inclination, but the Church teaches that I only sin when I freely act on those disordered impulses. Where there is no will there is no possibility of sin. This is not a controversial point, but a formally defined doctrine of the Church.

          All of us who recognize and strive to obey the voice of our Good Shepherd understand Pope Francis’ words very well: “If a sinner seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?” It is bewildering to me that so many people on the left and on the right (of the political spectrum) view this statement as a lighthearted licence to sin.

          Perhaps only extreme-moderates are able to hear the firm and loving invitation to abandon sin which calls out like a trumpet blast from each syllable: “Seek God and have good will!” What could possibly be more Christian than this clearly-implied, wholesome, life-giving message? We call it “good news” for a reason, friend.

          To the extent that you sincerely decry sin here below, I thank God for you. But if you dare mock the wise and loving finger which writes so casually and gently (effeminantly, you might say?) in the warm sand, you’d better be certain that your name isn’t written there too: “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.” (John 8:7)

          God help us all.

          • DE-173

            “Where there is no will there is no possibility of sin. This is not a controversial point, but a formally defined doctrine of the Church.”
            And there is the essential doctrine of the militant homosexual-my inclinations are innate and immutable, I must be allowed to pursue my passions.
            Good thing we don’t apply this thinking to alcoholism-alcoholism will also tell you they have compelling and immutable inclination, but the response is “one day at a time”, avoid bars, have people who can get you through the rough spots, etc, etc.

            • http://dabidross.com David Ross

              DE-173: What spirit prompts you to crudely paint the heart of your neighbor with such broad and arbitrary strokes? Does God love the masturbator and the thief and the alcoholic, but not the homosexual? Dear friend, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. (see 1 John 4:1)

              Meanwhile, please recall that it is an immutable dogma of our divine Church that God, and God alone, is immutable. (see, e.g., Lateran IV and Vatican I). Our human inclinations, good or evil, are not immutable–far from it.

              Another holy dogma proves beyond doubt that God does in fact allow us to freely pursue our evil passions (see, e.g., Trent.) It is a sad fact that we mortals choose evil every day; but are you really bold enough to say that your neighbor’s sins are weightier than your own? Test the spirits, friend.

              In any case, you seem to want to suggest that unrepentant militant-homosexuals have their own unique “essential doctrine.” I strongly disagree. Regardless of his preferred species of sin, the one essential doctrine of every unrepentant sinner is always the same, namely:

              “Do what you will.” (see Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law)

              This Satanic doctrine–so close, and yet so far, from our own–would put “love under will.” (ibid) We Catholics, on the other hand, submit our will to love:

              “Love, and do what you will.” (St. Augustine, Homily 7 on the First Epistle of John)

              The Church clearly teaches us to pray for our unrepentant neighbor so that, God willing, he might repent and believe the good news.

              We’re all in the same boat. God help us all.

              Blessed Bartolo Longo, pray for us.

              • DE-173

                Does God love the masturbator and the thief and the alcoholic, but not the homosexual?

                No, but the command is to go, and sin no more.

                “In any case, you seem to want to suggest that unrepentant militant-homosexuals have their own unique “essential doctrine.” I strongly disagree. Regardless of his preferred species of sin, the one essential ”
                There’s very few sins that are the basis of political movement.
                Thieves aren’t suing to suspect theft laws, alcoholics aren’t fighting to have alcoholism removed from the list of diseases in medical manuals and masturbators aren’t looking to have marriage redefined.

                • http://dabidross.com David Ross

                  Agreed: “Go, and sin no more!”

                  I share your concern for the undermining of the family (and society) which the devil is tirelessly striving to achieve via, among other things, the gay lobby.

                  However, my overriding concern is that I may fall into the snare of pride, straining out the gnats (my neighbor’s countless venial sins) only to swallow a monstrous camel (my own mortal sin of pride).

                  I would generally characterize, for example, the militant homosexual’s sin (pernicious though it is) as merely venial because:

                  “Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law.” (CCC 1859)

                  I give the godless heathen the benefit of the doubt because I have recently converted to God and know, first hand, the abysmal difference between full knowledge and invincible ignorance.

                  The self-righteous condemnation of selfish but ignorant sinners by faithful Catholics turns my stomach precisely because we have been given the grace to know better. We are in more danger of perdition than they:

                  “if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” (John 9:41)

                  “The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’” (Luke 18:11-13)

                  Only one went home justified before God.

                  God help us all.

          • http://dabidross.com David Ross

            DE-173: Thank you for your comment. (It seems I am unable to reply directly to your comment, so, in the meantime, I will put my reply here instead.)

            What spirit prompts you to crudely paint the heart of your neighbor with such broad and arbitrary strokes? Does God love the masturbator and the thief and the alcoholic, but not the homosexual? Dear friend, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. (see 1 John 4:1)

            Meanwhile, please recall that it is an immutable dogma of our divine Church that God, and God alone, is immutable. (see, e.g., Lateran IV and Vatican I). Our human inclinations, good or evil, are not immutable–far from it.

            Another holy dogma proves beyond doubt that God does in fact allow us to freely pursue our evil passions (see, e.g., Trent.) It is a sad fact that we mortals choose evil every day; but are you really bold enough to say that your neighbor’s sins are weightier than your own? Test the spirits, friend.

            In any case, you seem to want to suggest that unrepentant militant-homosexuals have their own unique “essential doctrine.” I strongly disagree. Regardless of his preferred species of sin, the one essential doctrine of every unrepentant sinner is always the same, namely:

            “Do what you will.” (see Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law)

            This Satanic doctrine–so close, and yet so far, from our own–would put “love under will.” (ibid) We Catholics, on the other hand, submit our will to love:

            “Love, and do what you will.” (St. Augustine, Homily 7 on the First Epistle of John)

            The Church clearly teaches us to pray for our unrepentant neighbor so that, God willing, he might repent and believe the good news.

            We’re all in the same boat. God help us all.

            Blessed Bartolo Longo, pray for us.

        • Guest

          One of the problems is that if one only accents part of the truth and not the entire truth then one turns the truth into a lie.

          Of course if one seeks God and confesses their sin that is good. But, is that the real issue today? Really?

          It is one thing to talk about these issues in an abstract way, but we are dealing with eternity.

          The last two Popes never had these problems. What has changed ?

          • http://dabidross.com David Ross

            Guest: I appreciate and share your concern for souls, but I also trust in God’s perfect justice and mercy.

            Perhaps I have read too much and lived too little, so that my vision is imbalanced toward the abstract, as you suggest. Please pray to God for me, that my eyes may be opened.

            Meanwhile, please picture, if you can, our Lord, Jesus, as a young boy playing with a ball under the loving gaze of His Immaculate Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Imagine that His little ball is lost–it has fallen into a place of incredible darkness and void. As it falls, Jesus’ cherished ball breaks up into billions of particles of light, some dim, and others bright. They spread out to fill the universe, and seem impossible to save. But Mary, smiling, extends her arms wide and slowly curves them around the sparse constellations formed by the sparks. Not surprisingly, as she draws them in to herself, only a few are gathered, so she patiently and lovingly repeats the motion until she has gathered together all that she can for her Son.

            Mary is the Church. The opening-motion of her arms is the liberal or the “left”; the closing-motion of her arms is the conservative or the “right”; and the goal, the center, is Christ. Until we are all safely gathered in, Mary’s precious arms need to make both motions.

            That’s how I see the Church in our fallen culture of death.

            St. Mary, pray for us.

    • Jo

      I’m a Catholic teen, and understand there are problems. However, I believe it is not the fault of Church teachings, sacraments or dogma. But rather sissified priests and bishops unwilling to preach the cold hard truth of morality. I believe that poor religious education was the problem, students colouring pictures of the Lord didn’t take me far in understanding Christ. But thorough Catechism has helped immensely. There is a site http://www.churchmilitant.tv you may visit. The New Evangelisation starts here, on the internet. Church militant may connote the feeling of repulsion, but it is a Catholic identifier for Christian brethren here on Earth, Not a terrorist group. Church triumphant is for souls in Heaven and Church suffering is souls in Purgatory.
      God bless.

  • TERRY

    I am reminded of a Mass a few years ago. I live in Maine and as often as possible I go to the Latin Mass (8 a.m. Sunday) at St. Peter & Paul Basilica in Lewiston. On this occasion there was a guest celebrant of the Mass and in his homily he said something I’ve never forgotten – “The biggest sin of our times is the loss of the sense of sin.”

    I am a sinner.

    So are you.

    • Don

      Indeed. In the first book of the Bible mankind is ejected from Eden because they chose to decide for themselves what was right and what was wrong . . . what was or was not a sin. Modern man so dislikes being told certain behavior is a sin that he will reject the concept of sin, evil, or the devil rather than face accountability. And in so doing, rejects the salvation God offers us through Christ.

    • Thomas Sharpe

      I am a sinner. Thanks.
      To recognize the devils work, it helps to identify any of the D’s: to deceive, to destroy, to defile, to degrade, to divide….. See any of these and you know- especially if it involves a Church.

      The devil must know that he cannot “win” against the Church, so he busies himself settling up parallel churches/magisterium and destroying those who are still in partial communion. The devil also muddies the waters, sowing confusion. We can hear it already. “Well the new baptismal rite doesn’t mention the devil.” “Believing in the devil is so medieval.” “This is 2014″. He also pits faithful Christians against each other, usually on something he himself hates the most, like the Papacy.
      Defiles marriage, in the name of “love”; don’t accept love without truth.

      • TERRY

        Don and Tom;

        Thanks for your replies. It is said that the smartest thing the devil ever did was to convince people that he doesn’t exist.

        We know he does.

        • Willam Nat

          But events in our time are really backfiring on him. It’s clearer than ever before that Christ is the Son of God, because his enemies support killing unborn children, making the homosexual “sex” act a “sacrament,” killing the elderly, etc.

          • David Webb

            William, it’s NOT “homosexual.”

            A good Catholic would know their Latin and, while “homo” does mean same/single, the word “homosexual” doesn’t provide CONTEXT of the subject it claims to define, leaving more ambiguity for evil to work confusion and doubt.

            The proper name for aberrant sexual practices is rather simple:

            ABERROSEXUAL Noun.

            1. One that is sexually aberrant or that behaves in a sexually unnatural, abnormal, or untypical way

            2. (Sociology) a person whose sexual behavior deviates from what is considered to be acceptable

            3. (Psychology) a person who engages in behavior, conduct or
            practices that are aberrant or that deviates from what is natural,
            normal or typical. Such as homosexualism, bisexualism, zoophilism,
            lesbianism, necrophilism, sadomasochism, voyeurism, fetichism,
            scopophilism, etc.

            Words are highly inflectional tools!

            PAX et BONUM!

        • David Webb

          I thought the very same thing after only reading the headline!

          Benedictions to you, Terry!

    • David Webb

      Thank you for observing the True Mass — the Tridentine Mass!

      PAX et BONUM!

  • fredx2

    “Responding to a population “which sees no pressing reason to spend Sunday mornings or any other time in Church,” …”

    Presumably because the Church of England refuses to refer to religion in any form. So why go?

  • Sam Scot

    “Claiming that the traditional rejection of the devil and all rebellion against God “put off people”
    When I read this, I assumed the leadership removed the rejection of Satan because they had concluded they weren’t all that opposed to him.

    • Willam Nat

      I’m sure they would not agree with you, but . . . the end result is . . .

  • Alan Napleton

    “The confessional is as empty as a drum and most priests need only set aside about 5 minutes a month for its execution.”

    My work requires that I travel a great deal so I often times find myself in a different city in a different part of the country on the weekends. When I go to these different parishes for confession I usually find long lines. My observation is that the confession lines are getting longer not shorter. I’m 65 and although the homilies have been weak over the past several decades I’m also finding them getting stronger with more solid Catholic teaching, including teaching on sin.

  • DE-173

    “P.D. James writes in her chilling novel Children of Man. Set in a dystopian world in the year 2021 in which the entire human race has become infertile, the author describes a society in which the last child had been born two decades earlier, and where the “new trend” in cities such as London is to hold elaborate christening ceremonies for kittens—replete with flowing white christening dresses and lace bonnets for the feline newborns. In such a society, the clergy is pleased to preside over the ritual because it gives so much joy to the childless “parents” of the kittens.”

    I am reminded of this literary work every time some “premium” pet food vendor, speaks of the purity (real meat) or novelty of their particular formulation with a pitch to “pet parents”.
    There’s also a really, really annoying bumper sticker” “my children have paws”. We should be allowed to affix a complementary bumper sticker that says “and my children’s parents are delusional”.

    • Objectivetruth

      I saw a study that 40 years ago 90% of Americans believed that dogs did not have a soul similar to ours. The same study was done two years ago, and now 90% of Americans believe dogs have an eternal soul. In other words, most Americans believe they’ll be running through heaven with Fido by their side.

      • Guest

        It is almost a neo-paganism. People now have multiple pets. There are pet food stores on almost every corner bigger than aircraft hangars. It is an obsession.

      • ForChristAlone

        Not quite…their owners will be wallowing in hellfire along with their pit bulls.

        • Eskimo man

          Are you condemning people to hell for incorrectly thinking that their dogs have eternal souls? What do you have against Pitbulls? If dogs could get to heaven, then it would be full of Pitbulls, as they are the friendliest breed going around.

          • ForChristAlone

            I loathe dogs and most especially pit bulls. So, yes, they can go to hell. (but here’s the dirty little secret: since they do NOT have immortal souls, they only get to rot in place upon death).

            But If want to know how hilarious this whole discussion is about people who believe their dogs to have immortal souls, just ask these self same people to define what an immortal soul is. Now THAT would be worth the price of admission.

            • Eskimo man

              I know that dogs don’t have immortal souls, but I also know that they are a part of Gods perfect creation. They are mans best friend. Are you a man? Having an incorrect belief of wether a dog has an immortal soul or not, will not damn anyone to hell as you would like to believe. You have also condemned me to hell for having two Pitbulls. When you give yourself the title ForChristAlone and then make judgemental unchristian comments, you are just causing more damage to Christianity. To be for Christ, is to be a part of His community and Church. Certainly not alone, and certainly not divisive as you have been.

              • Thomas Sharpe

                “Thinking that dogs have an eternal soul will not land you in hell”, but thinking that human beings are animals could – that’s the danger.

                • Eskimo man

                  Agreed.

              • ForChristAlone

                It is time for your Paxil.

                • Eskimo man

                  It is time for you to go away.

                  • ForChristAlone

                    Right!

            • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

              Didn’t “Our Lady of Medjugorje” have a revelation about dogs in heaven? I know Fr. Gobbi did. Remember him? During a visit to Kansas City area Catholics, he was once asked by a woman if her poodle would be in heaven with her, and he went into his visionary trance and phoned Our Lady immediately. I don’t remember her reply, because by that point in the evening, I had stopped listening to anything Fr. Gobbi had to say…

          • DE-173

            “then it would be full of Pitbulls, as they are the friendliest breed going around”.

            Until they go off without warning like a roman candle. No such danger with Labs, who are playful, friendly and even-tempered, even if they have a bit to much affection for dragging home carcuses as trophies.

            I prefer mutts from the pound. They lose all the unwanted pleitropic effects of sustainted breeding to meet human aesthetic and utilitarian considerations, and they are grateful.

            • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

              Bravo!

            • Eskimo man

              No dogs go off without warning. It is always the owners fault, and not a particular breed. I agree that it is good to get dogs from the pound, but I much prefer to have puppies so I can bring them up right. All the different breeds choose certain types of people that complement that breed, and not the other way around. Only certain responsible types of people are suited for the ownership of a Pitbull, as they are very powerful. They are one of the most loyal breeds going around, and they just love children. I wouldn’t let them play alone with a child though as they are very energetic and a bit rough in play.

              • DE-173

                I would spay them out of existence if I could. Too many people mauled by pit bulls. I had the misfortune of walking across the street from a Peterbilt that parked across the street one night. ACROSS THE STREET. Didn’t say a word, but that was enough to arouse the Cujo in the cab. I’ll never forget that snarling.

                • Eskimo man

                  If you spayed all breeds that bit or snarled at someone, there would be no dogs left. It is a known fact that in any council area, the most popular breed in that area leads the attack list. Where I live, the Pitbull does not even appear on the list. So its got nothing to do with a particular breed. 90% of dog owners should not be allowed to have a dog, as they have not got a clue how to treat them. Dogs are an extension of their owners, just like tools, tennis racquets, or golf clubs. The way you are thinking, is the same as racism. There is good and bad in all, not just one breed or race.

      • TERRY

        These 2 studies to which you refer – could you give us a little more detail? I find both of them absurd – “90% of Americans believe dogs have an eternal soul.”

        Shirley you jest.

        • Objectivetruth

          Don’t bark at me. And dont call me Shirley…….

          I don’t recall where I read it, I believe another Catholic website.

          But think about the whole preposterousness of a belief that dogs go to heaven, the same heaven we struggle and strive for. If it were true, I’d rather be a dog then a human. Obviously, because dogs don’t have free will, there’s no judgement, let alone sense of sin. 12-15 years of chasing squirrels and…..poof…..eternal bliss. Even our Holy Father Francis is telling us we are putting too much emphasis on pets, than having children.

      • Willam Nat

        Just one result of this:

        1. If animals have eternal souls then they are just like human beings
        2. It’s commonly accepted that animals can be “put to sleep” if very ill
        3. It’s therefore okay to put people “to sleep” i.e. euthanasia.

        I can give another dozen examples of what happens when animals and people are believed to be of equal worth.

      • Vince C.

        I hope so!

    • Guest

      This is quite a digression from the topic.

      • DE-173

        How so?

        • tamsin

          I liked Anne’s juxtaposition of

          1. the proposed baptism of humans without reference to Satan, and

          2. the fictional baptism of animals who are, by definition, without sin.

          DE shows these two dots are connecting in real life.

          In other words, when we stop distinguishing between human and animal, when we embrace animals as children, we embrace a conception of man as animal without sin, without Hell, and therefore without Heaven.

          I read the Guardian article; Anglicans are proposing literally the words “We will play our part in helping you guide these children along the way of faith.”

          “way of faith”? as in, one walks on a way to somewhere and there is a non-way that will non-arrive at that same somewhere? Mysterious.

          • DE-173

            “In other words, when we stop distinguishing between human and animal, when we embrace animals as children, we embrace a conception of man on a continuum with animals without sin, without Hell, and therefore without Heaven.”

            I have to be honest, I missed that deeper implication. I just thought there was garden variety lunacy at play here, where an increasingly narcissistic people anthromorphize animals, because they give unwaivering affection without much thought beyond the next treat or because paper training is easier than potty training, but you have seen something more insidious at play in the spiritual realm. Bravo.

            • tamsin

              Yes, it is garden variety lunacy. At best it is only nurturing run amok.

            • ForChristAlone

              Priceless

          • Anne Hendershott

            Thank you Tamsin – Appreciate this! Sometimes I can be too obscure for my own good – But, I have read P.D. James’ horrifying book several times and each time I become even more terrified by such a society that not only christens kittens, but also has an elaborate ceremony to “force” the group suicides of the elderly and infirm. A great book that I highly recommend everyone read at least once. I return to it in my thoughts whenever I hear of things like the latest “revision” of the Church of England.

            • DE-173

              Read “The Shore of Women” by Pamela Sargent. It’s a bit racy at times, but it chronicles a society where men are excluded and there is a diabolical, sapphic totalitarian matriarchy. It seemed far-fetched when I read it 20 years ago.

            • John Byde

              The church has just “voted” for female bishops too. The biggest progressive mistake of churches such as the CofE is that they think that if they become more “with it” then they will attract new members. It has never worked so far and never will. Older members are scared away and young members usually want the real thing. Our protestant churches here in Switzerland are committing suicide in the same way too by extolling the virtues of sodomy. It’s all very sad – the message of the gospel seems to have fallen by the wayside.

      • tamsin

        I think it’s quite on topic. See below.

    • TERRY

      I’ve heard of P.D. James, I never read any of her stuff and this makes me thankful for that.

      I am currently reading “How Right You Are, Jeeves” by P.G. Wodehouse.

      • John Byde

        Right on, Terry! Many people have found PG Wodehouse the perfect antidote to an increasingly insane world. And believing in Jesus, of course!

        • TERRY

          Anyone who can say “all work and no play makes Jack a Peh Bah Pom Bahoo” is my kind of guy.

          My sainted dad introduced me to Wodehouse about 55 years ago and the older I get the funnier he gets. I truly pity people who don’t appreciate him.

  • cestusdei

    I am sure that Satan will be delighted with the Anglican move lol.

  • corybantic

    Protestantism…where anything goes. As long as you say it’s “inspired.”

    • Guest

      Not all protestant traditions – don’t lump them together. :-)

      • corybantic

        Sooner or later, all of them will. Before 1930, NO christian denomination believed in contraception, after the Anglican Church okay’ed it at the Lambeth Conference in 1930, all Protestants followed suit and allowed for the evils of contraception. Look at the Presbyterian church, did they always accept homosexual “marriages?” Nope, but now – as far as they are concerned – it’s totally christian to celebrate and conduct same-sex “marriages.” The largest Protestant group in the U.S., the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), recently held their annual meeting and, up for discussion, was whether or not they would change their views on homosexual “marriages” and transgender issues. Why was this even up for discussion?

        Did Episcopalians accept openly gay “bishops” before Gene Robinson, why not? What happened that forced them to change? The Methodist church defrocked a Pennsylvania minister because he officiated at his gay son’s “wedding.” Amid public outcry, the Methodist church recently reinstated him, why?

        The answer to all of these question is simple: “Because the bible tells me so.” 35,000 different christian denominations all reading the same 66 books and yet, they are all yielding different interpretations. If in fact the Holy Spirit inspires when one read Scriptures, then – either the Holy Spirit is confused or, 34,999 denominations HAVE TO be wrong.

        Protestantism, the only way it multiplies is by dividing.

        • Ford Oxaal

          Ultimately, the Protestants more and more reject Baptism itself — having already rejected the second part of Christ’s admonition in Matthew 28:20 for the Church to teach the nations to obey Christ’s commandments. They reject Christ’s command by asserting superstitious and foolish anti-scriptural notions like “once saved, always saved”. Yet many good Protestants want to be Catholic without knowing it — they instinctively reject the Protestant “motto” of “justification by faith alone, good works avail nothing”. They instinctively know that good works — love of God and neighbor — even to the point of crucifixion, is why God became man. Only Satan could be behind the confusion of the contradictory and anti-Christian Protestant motto, with Luther as the unfortunate pawn declaring ad nauseam that good works are the tossing of dirty rags before God. Are we really to believe the Good Samaritan was tossing dirty rags before God? And it is all so silly, because both Catholicism and Protestantism agree that the road to heaven starts with a gratuitous act of God. But Catholic theology just gets started where Protestant theology quits and goes home — Catholicism begins a life of grace with Baptism — a gratuitous gift from God — a second birth — and then goes on to gain merit through good works — trying to grow the mustard seed and finish the race like St. Paul did with a humble and contrite heart. Protestantism ends a life of grace right there with Baptism — claiming to be all done now. The day is coming when the ever shifting sands of Protestantism will indeed reject the objective, sacramental reality of Baptism itself. This article points out another step along that path.

        • bonaventure

          You just wait until the October Synod. Man, you’ll be barfing when you’ll hear what Bergoglio will allow to be discussed…

          • corybantic

            Hardly. The Vatican recently released their findings for the October synod entitled, Instrumentum Laboris, which is the offical “road map” for the synod. In it, they reiterated and restated the established Catholic teachings in regards to the family, contraception, abortion, homosexuality and divorce…nothing new, much to the chagrin of anti-Catholics worldwide.

            • bonaventure

              Remember what happened shortly before the Second Vatican Council? The then “instrumentum laboris” for the Council was all ready and laid down by the curia for the world’s bishops and Council Fathers to just put their signature to it.

              And then everything changed.

              The Instrumentum Laboris is just a document drafted by a group of curial administrators. In other words, if Francis “Who Am I to Judge” unites in opinion with enough other bishops (like, those who have the “smell of the sheep”), everything can change — for better or for worse.

              • corybantic

                What was the name of the Instrumentum Laboris-like document that came out before VII? How did that deviate from established Church teachings?

                What changed after VII? The Mass? The Communion of Saints? Marian devotion? The Real Presence in the Eucharist? The teachings on homosexuality? The teachings on contraception? The teachings on the heresies of Protestantism/SSPX? The Trinity? What changed?

                • bonaventure

                  Who said that anything deviated from established Church teaching at Vatican II? I only stated a fact: that the curia before Vatican II had everything ready, then came in the world’s bishops and said “no, we want to have our own discussions and produce our own results.”

                  So let’s make this very clear: I refer to a dynamic which happened at Vatican II, and which may repeat itself at the October Synod: whereby everything seems to be put in place by the curia, but the bishops do not really follow the laid out plan but go their own way to discuss the issues at hand and offer their own ideas, regardless of what’s in the Instumentum Laboris.

                  • corybantic

                    Did the world’s bishop deviate from established teachings after VII?

                    • bonaventure

                      If you go back to my original post above (“You just wait until the October Synod. Man, you’ll be barfing when you’ll hear what Bergoglio will allow to be discussed…”), I just wrote that Francis might allow the discussion of issues that would make an orthodox Catholic vomiit.

                      I never said that the Vatican II Fathers deviated from any established teachings, but that they did not follow the plan for discussion as was laid down by the Vatican curia before the Council. That’s all. And that may happen again in October, i.e., deviation from the instrumentum laboris’s plan — not its doctrinal content.

                      Having said that, it is worth reminding that Francis actually already allowed discussion about issues that would make an orthodox Catholic sick to the stomach: the very fact that he has even opened the discussion about homosexual “marriage” in the questionnaire (and therefore is allowing the discussion about homosexual “marriage” to continue at the Synod) is, one may argue, already a deviation; not a doctrinal deviation, but certainly a pastoral deviation which may have tremendously negative consequences.

                      In my humble opinion, this topic should have never been on the agenda, since this is a synod on the family, and there are no homosexual “families,” unlike mono-parental families, and reconstructed families (after a divorce). The latter two examples are dysfunctional models of families, but they still originated as a family, while homosexual “marriage” never is, never was, and never shall be anything close to being a “family,” let alone a “marriage.”

          • tanyahe

            He is referred to as – Holy Father Francis

        • cpsho

          If we want to restore Unity of Christians then we need to restore the Deuterocanon to all Christian denominations.
          To restore the Deuterocanon is to restore 75% of Christian Unity; it is to save millions of souls.
          popeleo13.com/pope/2014/06/30/category-archive-message-board-69/#more-561

          • corybantic

            Agreed.

      • RufusChoate

        You’ve missed the last 500 years of the “Reformation”. Please review and comment. Spectacular heretical failure with more to do with the craven desire for power of little men than any prompting of the Holy Spirit.

        Try reading Acts 5:35-5:40

  • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

    And yet, Bergoglio discouraged conversions from Anglicanism in his diocese. And Francis just recently received the public “blessing” of the head of the “church” of England. And we will continue to “dialogue” with the Anglicans, as if there were anything to discuss with them.

    • Art Deco

      If oecumenism consisted of quiet discussions among a few theologically trained officials, it would not be corrosive. There was something to discuss fifty-odd years ago and still is with certain provinces of the Anglican communion (in Africa, for instance). It’s just that oecumenical dialogue is of no account to the Church of England or its North American affiliates. They go on their silly way and flip the bird at the Church in the process. Since they are not discussing anything in good faith, we need to cut ties at every level but the lowest. Some local-level co-operative projects is all the official contact there should be, and there you’re just slinging hash, not talking theology or ecclesiology.

      • cpsho

        we dont need a unity of ecclesiastical politicians; and we dont need a unity of those playing to the public gallery of sinful men.

        But rather a unity embedded in the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit
        of Jesus and the Spirit of the God and the Father of our Lord Jesus
        Christ; may His name be praised, be exalted, be glorified forever.
        http://popeleo13.com/pope/2014/06/30/category-archive-message-board-69/#more-561

    • ForChristAlone

      Next Bergolio will entertain discussion with the Wikkans…no difference there….

      • tanyahe

        You seem very disrespectful calling the Holy Father Francis just ‘Bergoglio’. You need to pray for him more and yourself about manners. Even the Lord has manners

        • ForChristAlone

          But Bergolio sounds very friendly, down-to-earth, chummy and so authentic. We need to stop with all the formalities of Pope this or Pope that…all too stuffy for a pope of the common man. You you prefer that i refer to him as “Frankie?”

          • tanyahe

            No, I think you are disrespectful.

            • DE-173

              You are missing a very important and subtle point about the dangers of the potential to diminish an office.

              I once had a parish priest who was fond of simply being called “Bill”. It didn’t work well after the novelty wore off.

              • tanyahe

                are you talking to me or for Christ alone?

                • DE-173

                  There is a reply indicator clearly showing it was meant for you.

                  The dimunition of the office comes from the occupant. That’s why you never had people greeting John Paul II with “here’s Johnny”.

                  • tanyahe

                    Well good thing you aren’t the pope’s advisor. Whenever there is an office , no matter how you “feel” personally, you should respect the office. That is just good manners, which usually means good upbringing.

                    • DE-173

                      Actually, I’d say the same to you. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY should have lackeys for advisors. You respect the office by delivering truth, not fealty.
                      Nice try on the “feelings” thing, but unlike you, I’m not guided by emotion. Too much of the Pope’s extemporaneous speech requires revision, clarification and exception. Everybody has weaknesses. I’m not among those that assume “Bergolio” is the new spelling of “Borgia”.
                      After the Pope has to reiterate the Church’s opposition to socialism, a little buzzer should have gone off saying I was unclear. You would think a trained chemist would appreciate a precise formulation.

                    • tanyahe

                      You are right, I wouldn’t be the best person in the world to advise anyone on anything, which is clear from this dialogue. But manners are manners, and respect, no matter what you think about the person, when they have an esteemed office, deserves respect . I’m quite simple minded, so as far as chemistry is concerned-adios -that’s my buzzer calling me

                    • DE-173

                      “It must be observed, however, that if the faith were endangered, a subject ought to rebuke his prelate even publicly.”
                      St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 45

                      “Augustine says in his Rule: ‘Show mercy not only to yourselves, but also to him who, being in the higher position among you, is therefore in greater danger.’ But fraternal correction is a work of mercy. Therefore even prelates ought to be corrected.”
                      St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 4, Sed Contra.

                    • tanyahe

                      fraternal correction should be doled out after our own examin “When we have to reprimand others, let us first think whether we have committed that fault; and if we have not committed it, let us consider the fact that we are human beings and we could have committed it. Or whether we have been guilty of it in the past, even though not at present. And then let us be mindful of our shared weakness, so that mercy, and not animosity, precedes the correction we give.”-St Augustine, On the Sermon on the Mount
                      But that’s not really the point I was going after, but consideration for the office of Pope, what he means to the Catholic Church. Even if you think he is doing a bad job, the Holy Spirit is ultimately guiding him, more so than me. So I wish you peace, and I do mean it, and hope you have a blessed rest of the day.

                    • ForChristAlone

                      The world you are describing (sadly) no longer exists. And by the way, it is not I who debased the office of Supreme Pontiff. I think that one who holds such a lofty position as leader of one billion Catholics needs to be in awe of the majesty of the office. And while you might have gotten your panties all in a tussle, I was simply using hyperbole to make a point; I really do greatly respect the papacy and all it means (perhaps even more so than the current occupant).

    • Arimathean

      In Argentina, the Anglican Church and its archbishop are rather conservative, unlike the UK and the US.

      • RufusChoate

        Being Conservative is still not sufficient justification for them to remain in error without valid orders or full apostolic succession.

        • Damian

          Even the Orthodox consider Roman Catholicism invalid.

          • ForChristAlone

            a pity

          • Guest

            They are wrong about a lot.

          • Willam Nat

            And what the heck does that have to do with anything?

            • Damian

              Should make you pause before you castigate Anglican orders.

    • Damian

      Don’t like the way you have put quotation marks around ”church” of England. How arrogant you must be.

      • Objectivetruth

        He’s correct. There’s only one Church, the Catholic Church. All Protestant denominations are ecclesiastical communities, not true churches.

        • Damian

          Anglicanism is not Protestant. Everyone with a proper education knows that.

          • Guest

            They are not Catholic.

          • Art Deco

            Come again? They do not have valid holy orders. They are protestant.

          • Willam Nat

            Where did you receive YOUR education? They are Protestant. Read about the founding of the AC by Henry VIII.

            • Damian

              Can you show me where this is found in anything Henry wrote or said?

              • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

                Well… he seems to have Protested against the notion that he was not the absolute center of the universe.

                • Damian

                  Yes, I would spit on his grave if I knew where it is.

                  • DE-173

                    Save your spittle, he deserves something else.

              • DE-173

                Can’t really believe much of what Henry wrote, since he signed his name to book called “A Defense of the Seven Sacraments”, before he discarded one.

          • Michael Paterson-Seymour

            And yet the Sovereign’s Coronation Oath refers to “the Protestant Reformed Religion by law established in England.”

            • Damian

              Um, the Coronation Oath is not an Anglican formulary. The unfortunate wording is political and 16th Century.

              • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

                The whole Anglican “church” is nothing but “unfortunate, political wording” from the 16th century.

                • Damian

                  Not as much as the ‘unfortunate’ sexual abuse of Roman clergy in the 20th and 21st.

                  • DE-173

                    Why are you here? We know we are and have sinners, but the Anglican Church was born of sin.

              • Michael Paterson-Seymour

                But the Coronation Service, of which the oat is an integral part is one of the authorised occasional services of the Church of England.

                The oath, far from being a 16th century formula, was introduced in 1688 (1 Will & Mary c 6)

                • Damian

                  May be true, but long time ago during the religious wars of 17th Century Europe.

              • DE-173

                The head of the Anglican community doesn’t use an Anglican oath?
                Interesting.

          • Objectivetruth

            I have a proper education and I know that Anglicanism is Protestant.

            • Damian

              Just where do you get that from? Show me any Anglican document that claims Anglicanism is Protestant and not Catholic.

          • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

            Good grief! My father was a convert from Anglicanism to Catholicism. Along with hundreds of thousands of other such coverts, he would certainly dispute your assertion that “Anglicansim is not Protestant.” It is, in all respects, the very essence of Protestantism.

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          Dominus Jesus of 6 August 2000 uses the word “church” for those churches outwith the Roman communion that have preserved “a valid episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,” calling the Orthodox and other Oriental Churches and the Old Catholics (Ultrajectines) “true particular churches.”

          • Objectivetruth

            I was referring to Protestant denominations.

          • Damian

            And the Anglican Church was spoken of as a ‘sister church’ to Rome in the Documents of Vatican Ii.

            • Art Deco

              Anglican holy orders are not valid. Get it through your head.

              • Damian

                The bull by Pope Leo xiii was issued at the time of Catholic emancipation in England, and at a time when Anglicanism was reasserting its Catholic roots in the 19th Century. The Catholic Church had to protect itself and its identity and the only way it could be accomplished was by rather crudely asserting an anathema to the effect that Anglican orders were null and void…and the Catholic Church has been embarrassed by that since as there is a problem stating that the matter was political and the pope at the time was in error and mischief.

            • Guest

              Which document? Where specifically does it say sister church?

              • Damian

                I don’t have the book in front of me, but have seen it a number of times, and it is frequently referenced in ecumenical circles. Probably in the documents on Church Unity,,,

                • Objectivetruth

                  So you’re just trotting out garbage hoping it will stick.

    • Willam Nat

      Who’s this “Bergoglio”? A pal of yours in Liverpool? Surely, you would not refer to the Pope by his former last name. Especially, when you brandish “Dr.” before your name. What are you a doctor of, Williams?

      • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

        I am referring to his actions while bishop in Argentina. Thus, it is not only correct, but required, to refer to those as the actions of Bergoglio, rather than of Francis.

    • Damian

      I think I will put your title ‘Dr’ in commas as you have done for the Anglican Church.

      • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

        ouch!

      • Guest

        Why? If he earned his title it is genuine. Is the English group genuinely a church? They may be a community but are they a Church as the See of Peter defines church?

    • John

      I recently converted to Catholicism from Anglicanism, and part of my initial openness to Rome came from the fact that Rome was willing to have those dialogues. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss them, if I were you. I still pray that fruit may come out of them, and that we all may be one.

    • John Byde

      Quite. We are into innoculating ourselves against contagion now, no “dialogue”

  • phillyfanatic

    Well Lewis was right. Jesus too. Satan IS the Father of Lies. Liberals all over the world are deluded whether in religion, govt.,or family practices. The demons are howling with glee as the dunces in the liberal mainline churches simply forget one cause of murderous sin. Soon they will delete , the world and our propensity to sin. Liberals simply are insane.

  • standtall909

    Everyone is wanting in the worst way to get rid of Satan. It’s too backward for ‘modern’ society, so let’s just not deal with him and he will go away. LOL……..and he is LOVING it!

  • Bill Russell

    Given the downward slide of Anglicanism, once Satan is omitted, the next to go will be God. After that, water will go for ecological reasons, and finally baptism will be dropped altogether, since there will be no people left.

  • Dr. J

    Faithful Anglicans, the Catholic Church is ready to welcome you home anytime.

  • robert chacon

    It shouldnt be surprising that the Church of England has decided to dismiss the devil here. Theyve been dismissing God from so much of everything else!

  • bonaventure

    The devil is very comfortably at home in the western Anglican “church.”

    • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

      And in the Roman Catholic Church? See the Instrumentum Laboris 2014. There is no ‘sin’ there.

  • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

    Doesn’t this raise the question of validity?

    • msmischief

      No. Valid baptisms may be performed by anyone who intends to perform the baptism that Christ instituted, with water, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. References to the Devil are not required.

      • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

        260. What do we promise in Baptism?
        We promise in Baptism to renounce the devil and all his works and pomps.
        (A Catechism of Christian Doctrine | CTS)

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          There are no baptismal vows in any of the Eastern rites (including those in communion with Rome

          There is an exorcism in the blessing of the baptismal water, “Make it a fountain of incorruption, a gift of sanctification, a loosing of sins, a healing of sicknesses, a destruction of demons, unapproachable by hostile powers, filled with angelic might; and let them that take counsel together against Your creature flee there from, for I have called upon Your Name, O Lord, which is wonderful, and glorious, and terrible unto adversaries.

          And he signs the water thrice, dipping his fingers in it; and breathing upon it, he says:

          Let all adverse powers be crushed beneath the signing of your most precious cross

          We pray You, O Lord, let every airy and invisible spectre withdraw itself from us, and let not a demon of darkness conceal himself in this water; neither let an evil spirit, bringing obscurity of purpose and rebellious thoughts, descend into it with him (her) that is about to be baptized”

          • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

            Thank you @michaelpatersonseymour:disqus! Good to know!
            Isn’t a catholic Catec

            • Michael Paterson-Seymour

              Unfortunately, the Eastern rites are often overlooked in Roman documents.

              The only necessary form of baptism is the words “I baptize you” (the Western form) or “This servant of Christ is baptized” (the Eastern form) “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Provided the Three Divine Persons are clearly designated, equivalent or synonymous names are valid.
              A laving or ablution of the head of the candidate is required, thus, baptism by immersion (the usual Eastern practice) or by pouring water over the head (infusion) is certainly valid; aspersion or sprinkling, according to most theologians, is valid only if a drop of water actually trickles or moves, otherwise there is no ablution or washing.

              • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

                Thank you @michaelpatersonseymour:disqus. I guess sooner or later the Church must address the Anglican new baptismal rite.

  • Marcos Batista De Abreu

    I’m glad I left the Anglican Church and became an Orthodox eight years ago. Most of my friends from the Church of England who were priest became Roman Catholics immediately after the first ordination of women in 1994!

    • Damian

      All of 6o left for the Ordinariat over the past three years. Real story is how many Catholic clergy have moved to Anglicanism.

      • Mercydivine

        Damian…Why do you persecute Catholic Church?….Don’t you know that the gates of Hell will never prevail against it..
        As for John Paul II and Marcial, why can’t you believe that he didn’t know about the evil being done?
        And finally the Catholic Church is gaining memebers worldwide. As for the other churches, as they continue to water down the truth, they will continue to lose members.

        • Damian

          Anglicanism is growing rapidly in Asia and Africa. The Catholic population of Brazil and other South American countries is deteriorating rapidly for the Pentacostalist

          • Art Deco

            The Anglican provinces in Africa do not have much patience for their occidental counterparts. Eventually, the communion will dissolve.

          • Mercydivine

            Dream on…..

            • Damian

              Look, I really like and admire the Catholic Church, But you would be offended if I came on this site and made ridiculous statements about the faith, practice, and culture of Catholicism. I am so offended by the untruths made here on this blog about Anglicanism, the second largest church in the world. I really worry about where it is that you are at by what is reflected in your comments. I find it distasteful and a mystery as to why so many Catholics convert to Pentecostalism in Brazil,, but it is undeniable that it is happening in South America. Additionally, EVEN WITH ITS PROBLEMS, Anglicanism is growing even, though with small increases, in the UK.

        • Damian

          How can you possibly believe that John Paul didn’t know about Marcial when he certainly had the low down on the priest in Nicaragua who was a member of the government…the famous scene where JP wagged his finger at him upon arriving at the airport.

          • Art Deco

            The priest in Nicaragua was the foreign minister. His name appears in the papers. Not exactly an esoteric piece of information.

            Maciel had been under investigation for a two year period in the 1950s and misconduct was not discovered at that time. A great many things can be and are concealed. The Pope has 3,000 dioceses under him as well as religious orders. There’s much that goes on he does not know about.

            • Damian

              Well we all know that John Paul was ga ga for most of the second part of his pontificate, but it beggars belief that he didn’t know, or didn’t want to know that the man was married, dealing in drugs, fathered numerous children, and was taking money from evil men. Ratzinger knew, both men were close, JP II turned a blind eye and by doing so allowed a great crime to go uncorrected in the Catholic Church.

          • Mercydivine

            Are you suggesting that you know the mind of John Paul II? How do you what he knew?

  • http://www.commieblaster.com/ Paul Ben

    Heretics are just proving and enforcing more and more their heresies.

    Thank God I am Catholic.

  • DJR

    I am in favor of the Anglican organization doing this, just as I am in favor of Anglican “women priests,” “women bishops,” and “gay clergy.” As Anglicanism, and Protestantism in general, implodes in non-stop error, things like this help people to focus on truth and makes the distinction between truth and error, i.e., the Catholic Church and the heretics, ever sharper. People of good will cannot but notice, which can help draw them to the truth of the Catholic Church.

    • DJR

      To clarify my statement above, I am not in favor of the immorality practiced by “gays,” but since the Anglicans are bent on condoning it, it helps show how erroneous Protestantism really is.

      • Damian

        Anglicanism is not Protestant as you wilfully attest. Any educated person knows that there is no where in Anglican formularies that the word is even used. It adheres to the threefold ministry of Bishops, Priests and Deacons, subscribes to the ancient creeds and the first six councils of the undivided church.

        • Guest

          It rejects the Pope. It has invalid orders.

        • Art Deco

          Anglicanism is protestant in its historic origins and its absence of valid holy orders.

          • Damian

            Even of that were true Anglican bishops have received apostolic succession at their consecrations from Od Catholic and other bishops for so long that the Bull of Leo XIII is considered irrelevant to any continuing debate.

          • Damian

            My God y sound like a primitive fundamentalist. The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury are close…I suppose you detest this.

            • tanyahe

              I don’t think anyone detests that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury and amiable towards one another. That’s what Christians are meant to be, loving others. for the sake of God. But one church is correct and the other is false, you cannot claim they are equal, because that is a lie. It’s either the Roman Catholics Church or the Anglican-Church of England Church, I’m with Peter.

        • Michael Paterson-Seymour

          Try The Coronation Oath Act 1688 (1 Will & Mary c 6) – “the Protestant Reformed Religion by law established in England.”

        • tanyahe

          Anglicanism is Protestantism, right from the get go. The root word is protest, the Church of England wanted nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church. Saint Thomas More, pray for Damian (and me too)

      • Damian

        Do you feel the same about ‘indulgences’ then?

    • Damian

      Right…like John Paul the Second not knowing about the activities of Marcial. How convenient. The man was bringing in millions to the Catholic Church. And this is material for sainthood?

      • tanyahe

        are you an authority of Saint PJPII?

        • Damian

          No…wouldn’t waste my time. But I am generally well informed. I consider the man a rogue and possibly an evil charlatan.

          • Dr. Timothy J. Williams

            Please, go back to your pub in Ulster, and down another pint or ten.

            • Damian

              I would be happy to be Irish, but Im not a drinker, and am happy to be an Anglican with other Anglicans who haven’t left their brains out of what it means to be a Christian today, ‘Dr’. Williams.

          • tanyahe

            That’s a terrible thing to say. I only hope I can be half the “rogue” you claim him to be, I want to be a saint.

  • intellectone

    The devil is be proud of the Church of England’s “enlightment” and “innovation”.

  • tanyahe

    Another tenet of the Christian faith being cast away to make people “feel” comfy. If the Anglicans continue, there won’t be much left to believe in.

  • St. Elizabeth of Hungary

    Ah, I wondered where all the graduates of The Chicken Little School of Theology were gathering these days. Of course, silly me! those who love to cry, “The church is falling! The church is falling” would gather in a place called “Crisis”! If there isn’t a real one, let’s create one, shall we?

    First of all, notice, please,
    that the author (an almost stereotypical polemicist) doesn’t link to
    the materials. Neither did the principal source, the Daily Mail (a
    publication that makes the National Enquirer look like Pulitzer
    material).

    Those of you who seek the truth (and think for yourself – gasp!) may have a look at the rite by clicking on this link:
    http://www.churchofengland.org/…/baptism%20pack%20for…

    The rite still requires the threefold
    renunciation of evil. What has inspired the lies is that the rite
    doesn’t anthropomorphize evil as Satan or the Devil. This is a
    distinction without a difference that a pack of liars has seized on to
    play their silly games.

    I refer you to pages 6 and 13 of what I suspect is the document in question.
    “1) Do you reject evil?
    2) And all its many forms?
    3) And all its empty promises?”
    4) Do you turn to Christ?
    5) And put your trust in him?
    6) And promise to follow him for ever?

    Also page 7:

    Do not be ashamed of Christ. You are his for ever.
    All Stand bravely with him.
    Oppose the power of evil,
    and remain his faithful disciple to the
    end of your life.

    May almighty God deliver you from the powers of
    darkness,
    restore in you the image of his glory,
    and lead you in the light and obedience of Christ.
    All Amen.

    This is hardly a mushy liberal rite.

    But, gracious, please don’t let me stop all you graduates magna cum laude of Chicken Little Theology. If you see an occasion of sin where others see increasing opportunity to invite a largely unchurched generation back into church and into the saving grace of Jesus, well, as Pope Francis says, who am I to judge?

    But please have your crisis without me.

    As for me an my house, we shall serve the Lord.

    • DE-173

      “The church is falling! The church is falling” would gather in a place called “Crisis”! If there isn’t a real one, let’s create one, shall we?”

      Nice try, but the Church of England isn’t falling, it fell at it’s creation.

      You don’t serve the Lord by arrogating a Saint’s name as a pseudonym.

      Try using a real disqus ID before engaging in Chicken Little posting.

    • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

      The deviations and departures usually start little and their insidiousness lie in the subtlety …
      In our salvation history, you cannot have evil without the one who was unfaithful from the very beginning, the murderer and the father of lies.

    • Anne Hendershott

      The word “evil” was removed – and remained “out” in most of the test-marketing. Under some pressure from parishioners, the leaders have reinstated “evil” for now but there are many who will be voting who are not happy to be keeping the word evil in the ceremony. Satan will not be returning to the ritual.

      • Guest

        Thank you addressing the provocateur.

  • Thersander

    Anglican Church continues down the path to apostasy and ultimate irrelevancy. Not sad really since it is inevitable.

  • nugeme

    God will always have a church. It might not be the one you are in now, but He will always have one- guaranteed.

  • Charlie500

    Satan’s greatest feat is getting people to not believe in his existence and the non-awareness of spiritual warfare,

  • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

    Pope Francis and the devil needs to be considered in the entire context of his pontificate.
    It appears to me his mention of the devil is meaningless and a smokescreen.

  • mollysdad

    The adoption of this new rite will destroy the validity of any baptism in which it is used.

  • stella

    Well…. Good Luck with that move!

  • Eskimo man

    The Church of England was created by a murderer anyway. What else would you expect from such a Church of hypocrites?

    • Art Deco

      You fancy latter-day anglicans carry Henry Viii’s sins?

      • Eskimo man

        No not at all, we can only be responsible for what we do. But to be a part of this false Church created by a murderer means that Jesus is not a part of it. Protestants are following Martin Luther and Henry VIII, and not Jesus and the Bible, or His true Church. The Church that won’t change, is the Universal Church of God that has Jesus present in it at all times, and fully.

      • Guest

        No, but if you look into its history how does one reconcile that with truth?

      • DE-173

        I don’t think latter-day Anglicans bear CULPABILITY for Henry’s sins, but they are affected by them, because the ecclesiology and theology of Anglicanism were designed to accomodate his sins.
        It’s sort of like my cousin’s kids. They aren’t responsible for their father’s sin of adultery; but they were certainly affected by the familial disharmony it created and the hole in their life caused by the existence of a half-s

        • Art Deco

          It’s nearly 500 years ago. Pretty attenuated. Anglicanisms most flagrant problems are of much more recent origin (and geographically disaggregated).

          • DE-173

            You can’t fix that which is wrong ab ovo.

    • Damian

      What is all this hatred for the Church o England? Jealously? If I were inclined to Rome what I read here would convince me that there are a lot of scared people around who need to get their heads out of the sand.

      • Objectivetruth

        You’re on a sinking ship, Damian. Come……find respite and peace in the barque of Peter.

        • Damian

          Yes, I have struggled with this. I don’t like women priests and bishops, and am concerned about the gay thing. But I stay an Anglican for good reasons. The liturgy, and a conviction that the Communion is catholic and global. Mostly because I feel that Anglicanism and Catholicism are dealing with the same issues…i.e. polls suggest that the overwhelming majority of Catholics want women priests, and I don’t think you can tell a gay man that he CANNOT LOVE. So I am wary of making a change, and I am not at all convinced that the Anglican Church is not embracing the world as the Lord Christ would have it.

          • tanyahe

            You need to move to South Carolina, if you are looking for Liturgy we’ve got it. Maybe a good Chesterton book would help too.

            • Bob

              Greenville? FatherDwight?

              • tanyahe

                Well yes, and many others. we are blessed.

                • Objectivetruth

                  You are! Catholic orthodoxy is growing beautifully in the South.

          • DE-173

            “I don’t think you can tell a gay man that he CANNOT LOVE.”
            You have love and (disordered) sex confused.

      • Guest

        In all seriousness how can a thinking person believe in the C of E? The history alone is enough to see it is beyond reason. It is a mystery why anyone of intellectual honesty would want to be part of it.

        I am not saying there cannot be people truly seeking our Lord there. I am stunned that is an age of endless information why would a serious person not study and see the history of this church shows its serious errors.

        I mean it started by a King who wanted to commit adultery and it broke away from the one true Church. How do you deal with that?

      • Eskimo man

        Why would anyone be jealous of the Church of England? They’ve got nothing. I don’t have hatred for the Church of hypocrites, who say they follow the Bible but don’t. The Church of England is dead now as they are not Christian, and I don’t think they ever were. I can only pray for the poor deceived souls that are members of that Church, that they receive the truth from the Holy Spirit and return to the Universal Church created by Christ.

        • Damian

          My God you are ridiculous.

          • Eskimo man

            What is ridiculous is that protestants refuse to see the truth. They are being led away from God by devils.

            Mathew 7[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do
            men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree
            bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A
            good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can an evil tree bring forth
            good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut
            down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall
            know them.

            [21] Not everyone
            that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he
            that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the
            kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not
            we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name and done many
            miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
            depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth
            these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his
            house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds
            blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a
            rock. [26] And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall
            be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, [27] And the rain
            fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house,
            and it fell, and great was the fall thereof. [28] And it came to pass when
            Jesus had fully ended these words; the people were in admiration at his
            doctrine. [29] For he was teaching them as one having power, and not as the
            scribes and Pharisees.

      • DE-173

        It’s not “hate” for the Anglican Community, it’s a recognition that after five centuries, it is now bearing increasing bad fruit.

        That having been said, Henry was a serial adulterer and a mass murderer. Why should we not hold him in contempt?

    • Damian

      Eskimo Man, you appear to be unaware of the Holy Office and the 500 year long inquisition in Europe that took the lives of what? Hundreds of thousands of Jews and Christians up to the Eighteenth Century.

      • DE-173

        Your numbers being highly exagerrated, Henry cared not a wit about those things, just the narrow focus of ensuring an heir. Suprise! The British monarchy isn’t his descedents anyhow.

      • Eskimo man

        I am fully aware of the Holy Office, and the Inquisition. But it appears as though you are not. It is a lie to state that hundreds of thousands of Jews and Christians were killed in the Inquisition. Nowhere near that amount. In fact the protestant Inquisition, murdering millions of Catholics for being Catholic, was far worse. Check out this video, if you want to know the truth.

        The Inquisition

        http://youtu.be/18EderfKDOM

        • Damian

          Im not here to argue this issue, Protestant vs Catholic. I don’t think the presenter here is authentic, and would rather get my information from other reputable sources. This guy got in trouble a short time ago for some of the things he was saying, and the local Catholic diocese distanced him from his actions and teachings in front of the camera.

          • Eskimo man

            The Church will always distance itself from controversial issues. There are many truths that the Church knows, but will keep them quiet so as not to rock the boat, so to speak. The Church of England is led by the royal family, and yet they never seem to promote Christ. The Queen not so long ago signed a document promoting same sex marriage. They are more antiChrist than Christian.

      • Art Deco

        Inquisitions in the Papal States existed, but they were not particularly bloody. The Spanish Inquisition handed over about 2,800 to state executioners between 1478 and 1834.

    • Damian

      Apparently you are prepared to overlook the crimes of the Catholic Mary Tudor who followed by two steps her father Henry VIII. Her moniker, Bloody Mary wasn’t a joke.

      • Eskimo man

        Did she disunify Christianity? Did she set the process in motion for many souls to be deceived into hell? I’m not here to judge people for their crimes. Is that all you can do, tell everyone all the crimes that Catholics have done? Release your pride and be a part of the Church that Christ wants you and all to be with.

  • Mary McMahon

    For those who deny sin , there can be is no Redemption

  • kirbette

    Can I ask the obvious here?…Why are these people getting their children baptized at all??? If they don’t deign to grace the inside of a church except for baptism, marriage and Christmas–why go through the whole charade?! No wonder so many are defecting to the Catholic Church. My God……

    • Objectivetruth

      Excellent points. The Anglicans have a sacrament that signifies nothing, and therefore is not a sacrament. It’s like playing dress up. It reminds me of Flannery O’Connor’s famous quote on the Eucharist: “If it’s just a symbol, the hell with it!”

    • http://shyanguya.wordpress.com/ @FMShyanguya

      Eh … because it is fashionable?

  • St. Elizabeth of Hungary

    This thread is absolutely amazing. It is painfully obvious that no one – no, not one! – has actually read the proposed rite which is under criticism but not honest, intellectual scrutiny. You are all much more interested in impressing each other with your knowledge of church history, patristics and systematic theology than you are in the claims – outrageous lies that they are – of this article.

    This – THIS – is why the church, in all of its incarnations – Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, and Reformed – is dying.

    Hypocrites! Scoundrels! Den of thieves of integrity! Liars! Imposters! Perverters of Truth!

    Jesus weeps. And, he has his whips ready.

    • Guest

      Save your propaganda for the credulous. No one buys your nonsense.

    • tanyahe

      Why are you here? it’s for sinners who want to discuss the Anglican Church. changing the words of the rite of Baptism; it is a serious matter. The prayers that the Roman Catholic Church have used as a prayer of exorcism, which the Anglicans have shared, is finally being dumbed down. Don’t you get the outcry? I guess when you start removing the validity of the Mass, it’s a lose lose situation. It starts to affect the other sacraments as well. So it’s happening. By the way, Saint Elizabeth of Hungary is a Catholic, glad you love her as well.

    • Anne Hendershott

      Actually I did read the several versions the Church of England has test marketed. The earlier versions deleted Satan AND the word evil. But, the faithful rebelled about it – Later versions re-instated evil but Satan will never return because Satan just does not fit into the progressive church that so many clergy desire. This is not driven by the faithful – it is driven by progressive clergy.

  • Willam Nat

    My advice to Anglicans: join the Catholic Church as soon as possible. Failing that, at least become a member of a Protestant church that is really Christian.

  • John Carter

    About 1972 Alexander Schmemann warned the Episcopalians about “exorcizing exorcism” at the Trinity Institute. Thunderous applause.

  • Razor Maclennan

    Satan nods his head in approval.

  • dcchr

    From one sinner to the many other sinners, “The Church of England and the Episcopal Church are going to hell on a downhill bike..and peddling as hard as possible”. To paraphrase Nietzsche, “God is dead and the Church has killed him”…

  • Fr. Chris Fontanini

    what would Jesus say or do? Did he not encounter evil in the desert? If there is no sin, why do we need a Savior?

  • Pingback: Anglicans set to remove Satan from Baptism

  • Micha Elyi

    Corrected headline: Anglicans Set to Remove Impediment to Satan from Baptismal Rite

  • susan

    i don’t think King George VI, Queen Elizabeth, or Elizabeth II (all in picture) would go for this idea. Satan is real. we all know in our hearts, he is real.

  • David Webb

    You know, I’m actually not concerned. Baptism is a CATHOLIC Sacrament, and now any wishing to truly and genuinely receive it’s Graces will know better to seek an authentic “dispensary” from God’s True Church, the Holy Catholic Church!

    Spread the Word!

    PAX et BONUM!

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  • Josephine

    Again, another drastic failure of Protestant Churches. Since their illegitimate departure from the One True Faith Catholicism in 1534 its been a slippery slide of stupidity. But can you really expect much from a so called ‘Christian’ Church founded on mere selfishness of King Henry VIII divorcing his wife Catherine of Aragon due to her inability to bear a male heir? Of course not! You can’t be a historian and be protestant. It is obvious that the Protestant Anglican Church was founded on selfishness of a man and rebellion to the Pope on shallow terms.

    I am not at all surprised that the Anglian Bishops would come to this sissified resolution. They don’t believe in the true Christ, or at least don’t believe that sin is the main reason He came to die for us. They would rather blot the image of the Devil out of their minds and the inevitability of Hell, and people do go there. Even Christ has made that clear (Hell and the Devil) and for an Anglican Bishop not to recognise that is devastating. And Satan is using this tactic of indifferentism towards sin most effectively to deceive everybody.

    What do you expect when sissified men do not stand up against the evil in the world such as abortion, contraception, divorce and remarriage, masturbation, fornication, adultery, fornication, homosexuality and all other intrinsic evils? You get a watered down portrayal of the Baptism that purposely ignores the essence of washing sin and renouncing the Devil. They are only concerned with pleasing the so called god-parents. So if they care they are called sinners? WE ARE SINNERS WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT! The psychological man has replaced the virtuous Christian man.
    Lore have mercy of us.

  • Gerjen

    Reference to Satan will be removed for a time. But it will likely find it’s way back as an affirmation to pledge one’s life to Satan and his works—eventually, this may be the only affirmation in modern society that modernists will not object to.

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