Homosexuality: A New Approach is Needed

If we are going to save our culture, it is important that Christians change their approach toward homosexuality. Fighting the GLBTQ (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer) agenda in the legislatures and courts will not succeed as long as the GLBTQ activists define the debate. We must treat same-sex attraction and sexual identity disorders (the so-called transgendered and queer) as what they are—preventable and treatable problems.

Such a change in attitude has happened before with alcoholism and abortion and needs to happen again.

In the 19th century alcoholism was considered an untreatable and deadly condition that destroyed lives and families. Many people came to believe that prohibition of the sale of alcoholic beverages was the only solution. The 18th amendment passed, but failed to achieve its goal. After repeal, alcoholics were treated as a joke in films or even heroes, but a quietly growing movement—Alcoholics Anonymous, a 12 step program based on spiritual insights—provided the answer. There are still alcoholics and drunk drivers, but now there is hope and help. Millions of men and women are living full lives in recovery.

Before Roe v. Wade, pregnant unmarried women were treated as pariahs, hidden away in shame until they delivered and surrendered their babies for adoption. Such treatment drove some to seek illegal abortions. After the Supreme Court’s decision, the pro-life movement was formed. At first many pro-lifers categorized the women having abortions as selfish and heedless, but soon the movement’s attitude changed. The pro-lifers realized that the mothers were the second victims of abortion—driven by fear, pressured by others. They needed help. A network of pregnancy help centers sprang up across the country. Sidewalk counselors stand outside abortion clinics to be sure that every woman contemplating abortion knows that real, practical help is available. Post-abortion counseling groups minister to women traumatized by their abortions. Those involved in the abortion industry, those who saw the carnage and emotional damage first hand and repented of their involvement, are speaking out against it. The pro-life movement now presents a message of mercy and love, not condemnation and shame.

A similar change of attitude is needed as regards same-sex attraction (SSA) and sexual identity disorders. Before GLBTQ activists began to demand full legal and social acceptance for their agenda, including the redefinition of marriage, persons with SSA or sexual identity disorders were either ignored or treated as comic relief—stereotyped as limp-wristed fairies. Society saw the problem but didn’t ask and those with SSA were not supposed to tell. The Church told them very clearly that what they were doing was wrong, but didn’t offer a path out of their problem. This in spite of the fact that a small group of therapists were working on understanding the causes of same-sex attraction and using various types of therapy to help those experiencing these problems to change their behavior and in some cases their sexual orientation.

Had these efforts received the kind of attention they deserved a great deal of suffering could have been avoided, however instead the GLBTQ movement grew and now besides demanding the redefinition of marriage, they are pushing for legislation to prevent treatment.

However, in spite of the lack of support, progress in the understanding of SSA has been made. While there is no single cause for SSA or sexual identity disorders, there is no evidence that people are born that way and can’t change. Case histories reveal similar patterns of early attachment disorders, failure to identify with same-sex parent or peers, traumas, and deficits, and a high rate of childhood sexual abuse. There is nothing compassionate about an attitude which just leaves such persons alone to act out, while their underlying problems go unaddressed. Those with SSA and sexual identity are far more likely to suffer from other psychological disorders, suicidal ideation, depression, substance abuse problems, relationship instability, victimization, and for the men sexually transmitted diseases. Although one hears about it less frequently and in spite of advances in treatment, the AIDS epidemic continues unabated among men who have sex with men. ‘Transgendered’ males, that is men who want to be or think they are women, are at the highest risk.

Therapy is not about pushing down same-sex desires and trying to stir up other sex attraction, rather therapists help their clients discover the roots of the problem. According to Joseph Nicolosi, a leader in the field and author of Shame and Attachment Loss: The practical work of reparative therapy:

We do not accept the fatalism of the “born that way” concept. Instead we propose an alternative model—addressing and resolving the underlying conflicts that have, in our view, laid the foundation for the symptoms of same-sex attraction (p. 17).

Just as there are AA groups in every community, pregnancy help centers in every city, and sidewalk counselors in front of every abortion clinic, there need to be support groups and therapists in every part of the country dedicated to helping men and women with SSA and sexual identity disorders find their way to freedom.

Pope Francis sought to address the problem of how to deal with a priest with SSA. He said that he couldn’t judge. If a priest or indeed anyone is living chastely in thought and deed, even if tormented by temptation, then we should not condemn him for his temptations, particularly when these spring from childhood traumas and deficits, but the problems faced by persons with SSA are not restricted to disordered patterns of sexual attraction. A man who is sexually attracted to other men will often have problems with authority. If he has not forgiven his father, he may have problems understanding what it means to be a father to all. He may be prone to non-sexual self-comforting behaviors. His attitudes to the Church’s teachings on sexual sin may be distorted.

While persons with SSA didn’t choose their temptations, there is nothing merciful about leaving them to struggle with such temptations alone, or pretending that resisting them is easy. Such men need specific help. If the Church has failed in the past to provide such help, we need to repent and remedy the situation. We should be praying for those struggling with this problem. They are not our enemies, but our friends, relations, and co-workers.

We can do so with assurance and if we do our part the grace will be given. In the 6th chapter of his first letter to the Corinthians, St. Paul lists the various sexual sins including, but by no means limited to those promoted by GLBTQ activists. To those who committed such sins, he offers a sure hope:

And so were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God (I Cor. 6:11).

Dale O'Leary

By

Dale O’Leary is the author of The Gender Agenda and One Man, One Woman. Her blog can be found at http://daleoleary.wordpress.com/

  • Deacon Ed Peitler

    On the whole, the main thesis of this piece is one that I agree with.

    But I have to take issue with a subtle bit of modernism that appears in the form of sentimentalism. It suggests that we eschew the human emotion of shame as unhealthy. In my mind, the disease of western modern man is the ABSENCE of shame. Now, I am NOT advocating that we try to induce shame in others when their behavior is objectively disordered or immoral. But what we have done in modern society is attempt to eradicate shame from the inner experience of the human species. In our effort to eliminate the experience of shame, we attempt to make natural what are unnatural acts and moral what is immoral.

    Shame is a natural emotion. It comes about when we recognize that we have done something to create a breach in an essential relationship – with God, our community and ourselves. The scripture’s depiction of Adam and Eve covering their genitals with fig leaves and hiding from God is an expression of their shame – they knew that they had done something to sever an essential relationship with the One who loved them into existence.

    So, while it is never charitable to try to induce shame in others, we must ALLOW others to experience the shame that is rightfully theirs. What is critical is that our response be as that of Christ’s which is to love them BACK INTO the relationship so that the breach can be healed. If we eliminate their shame, the offender remains lost – perhaps forever.

    • jacobhalo

      Good point, deacon about shame. Obesity (gluttony) is now a disease-no shame now. I guess the church has to subtract gluttony from the deadly sin. There are now 6 deadly sins.

    • Pay

      I think you have a point and I would add that the problem not addressed in the piece is that not all are open to what she is proposing. There is a hard current of people who want to overturn society. They do not accept anything she states. The approach to this Lobby cannot be only what she proposes.

      • smokes

        The Democrat Party-led LGBT Lobby is driving morality, itself, out of the public square and the Church is being brushed onto a dustpan in the process. Understanding hardly enters into the conversation. This is a putsch!

        • Pay

          Yes, the problem is there is a concerted effort to define down deviancy. Up is down and down is up. These propagandists have to be taken on and every argument is valuable. We plant seeds. There is not only one approach.

    • Uuncle Max

      Well said, Deacon Ed.

      I remember a few years ago I heard a homily at the Latin Mass in Lewiston, Maine by a visiting priest. He said something I’ve never forgotten – “The biggest sin of our times is the loss of the sense of sin.”

    • Adam__Baum

      I don’t think that there’s anything subtle here at all. Basically, she blames “society” for mistreatment of alcoholics, unwed mothers and same-sex attracted/homosexuals, considering all social opprobrium as gratuitous and invidious creations of society.

      Consider alcoholism. My great Aunt married an alcoholic, over the strenuous objections of my great-grandmother. Among the the myriad of indignities she suffered as the result of her decision was the exchange of a Sunday dinner roast for a bottle. I don’t know if there were any twelve step programs available in 30′s and 40′s, nor do I know if my Uncle sought or would have sought them. I do know the effects of his behavior as frequent emotional turmoil and economic privation visited upon my Aunt and her children-all things anticipated by my Great-Grandmother. She wasn’t a member of the WCTU, but understood that “drunks” could be violent, profligate, unreliable and even dishonest-not good marriage material.

      Maybe people of my great-grandmothers time couldn’t adequately distinguish the difference between the sin of drunkeness and the addicted state of alcoholism, but social opprobrium had it’s place, even in Northeastern Pennsylvania Anthracite mining towns, where alcohol was the only readily available relief from the perils of shaft mining, where a ” successful career” meant suffocation from anthrasilicosis (black lung) and where even moderate chronic use produced alcoholics by the boat load.

      Consider this line: “stereotyped as limp-wristed fairies.”. Is this a spontaneous imposition of society or a part (perhaps even a crafted part) of same-sex attracted individuals. From the picture, I think the author is old enough to remember Liberace and the lesser flamboyance of Charles Nelson Reilly and Paul Lynde. Now, all you need to do is watch “America’s Next Top Model” and “RuPaul’s Drag Race”, to see “limp-wristed fairies” embracing, exagerrating and developing the “stereotype” in ways their predecessors could never do in public.

      I’m all for compassion, but in the same way twelve-step treatments start with the acknowledgement of a problem, the individual with a sexual disorder needs to say “I have a problem” and when it comes to sex, almost nothing is problematic now.

      If there is a societal deficiency these days, it’s the tyranny of indifference and now a state-enforced indifference thanks to people like Krispie Kreme Christie and Moonbeam Brown. We don’t regard ANY expression of human sexuality to be invalid, it’s a matter of unquestionable personable preference. This includes the “serial monogamy” that has been made acceptable by Protestantism, “polyamory”, pornography, and autoeroticism. What you see know is just the latest flower on the same plant.

    • Michelle

      There is also the issue of false shame, or attributing to oneself the sins of parents, abusers, etc. If a child is molested, for instance, they tend to blame themselves, not the one who abused them. Such a child grows up wrongly believing they’re different and less than other people, a situation that can lead to same-sex attraction. This is different from the true shame you’re likely referring to that comes from one’s own sin. True shame is God’s internal nudging to repentance.
      Someone who acts out homosexually, then, likely has false and true shame. That makes both compassion and proper boundaries important because, like you said, enabling is also merciless. But those with same-sex attraction who desire to follow Christ in chastity need support. Courage and NARTH are available and need to be promoted.

      • Tom

        Id be cautious about promoting NARTH. They claim to be scientific but are very ideologically driven and very biased in their statements. Even Exodus International eventually backed away from them.

    • Theorist

      Shame is very much alive today as long as it is for the reason of being a hater. In proportion as feeling ashamed has increased so too has humility, reason, and magnanimity receded into self-satisfied egalitarianism. Americans killed God and replaced him with MLK and Lincoln.

      • James1225

        ” Americans killed God and replaced him with MLK and Lincoln.”

        Many Americans practice secular humanism whereby the religious concept of a deity tends to be irrelevant. Although MLK and Lincoln were themselves religious, what they accomplished is recognized by people of every worldview.

        • MJK

          really? too confident an assertion, sir

          • James1225

            It was a fairly noncontroversial statement. What did I say that was too confident an assertion?

  • donnellymj

    RIGHT ON – IT MUST BECOME THE RESPONSE BECAUSE IT IS TRUTH!

  • Ramon Antonio

    Congrats! At last I read a voice of genuine compassion first with ourselves and then with our fellows in the search for the Truth.

  • lifeknight

    To create support groups would imply that there is something WRONG with what they are doing or feeling–which is correct. The thoughts and deeds associated with homosexuality are intrinsically disordered (Benedict XVI). Until there is recognition that sodomy and lesbianism are both unnatural, there will be no attendance at support meetings that enhance abstinence or change in behavior.
    The agenda is clear here. The homosexual movement is about normalizing the abnormal in our society. We are being forced to accept acts and social associations that defy God and nature.
    As in the abortion debate, a woman who has had an abortion speaks with great credibility. So too, in this arena, the men and women who come “out of the closet” of homosexual sin and CHANGE their lives –are the best spokesmen. Sadly, only a very few are strong enough to make that personal decision public.

    • Florin S.

      Aug. 27th, I prefer to say that homosexual act are not ‘natural’ – there is a natural use for everything God created, a purpose – a key was formed to fit into a lock just as male and female bodies were formed to ‘fit’ each other…the sin is not to use our bodies as God intended them to be used…but even if we take God out of the equation, we cannot deny that male and female bodies were made to complement/to fit each other…

      • James1225

        “but even if we take God out of the equation, we cannot deny that male and female bodies were made to complement/to fit each other”

        What things are made to do is irrelevant. The human race has sovereignty over nature. Nature may make something for one purpose. Humans can use it for another.

        • 441019

          James1225, I don’t agree. When humans go against nature, there are consequences. For example, much illness in our society is caused by eating unhealthy foods or foods that contain pesticides and additives. The “Dust Bowl” in Oklahoma and nearby areas in the 1930s was caused by farmers plowing up millions of acres of prairie land and planting wheat–the entire ecology of the area was destroyed.

          • James1225

            So you want everything to be natural? Not gonna happen.

    • Melinda Selmys

      Hi Lifeknight…sorry to have to say this, but one of the greatest obstacles that those of us who have abandoned homosexual sin face is the kind of rhetoric that gets used in articles like this. When we are strong enough to make our personal decisions public, we end up taking a lot of flack for continuing to be “objectively disordered” and for insisting that LGBTQ folks need to be treated like ordinary human beings if there is going to be any hope of evangelizing the gay community. The language of “normal” and “abnormal” suggests that there is something “abnormal” about being tempted to sin, and the article above suggests that for some reason our temptation is a mental disorder, in a different category from the kind of normal temptations that normal people feel. It’s this kind of discrimination that causes LGBTQ people to feel that they’ve been singled out for special hatred and oppropbrium by the Church.

      • lifeknight

        Hi Melinda. All serious sin is a personal decision. Sexual sins do have some extraordinary consequences that do defy what was intended. The list is long! Again, those who personally know the force of that particular temptation have a unique assistance (maybe an obligation) to help others who have fallen in this way. Who better to know that it is possible to move away from that type of sin? (I suppose there could be groups for many types of sinners.)
        One of the bigger problems I have noted is that those who practice this sin have entire “culture” from which to draw energy. It seems much harder to break out of that influence and reinforcement.

  • Steven Jonathan

    Thank you for a thoughtful and compassionate essay!

    There is a lot more to the ssa issue that must be addressed by the Body of Christ- We do need a new approach, one articulated with truthful and accessible language- and while we cannot judge the heart of a repentant man and while we must not cast any stone, we ought to include the exhortation to “go and sin no more.”

    This is not a time to soften the stance, but to firm it up with both Truth and Charity.

  • Watosh

    Deacon Ed brings up something that we have lost sight of. Shame and stigma may be unpleasant and may be misused, still they serve a purpose in society by acting to curb certain behaviors harmful to society. Like it used to be shameful for an unmarried woman to get pregnant, and this tended to act as a disincentive. Now we have removed shame and the babies born to unmarried women has skyrocketed.
    As for the argument that homosexuals are born that way, so they are normal, I recall when I was a child there was a kid born with six fingers, that did not make having six fingers normal.
    Homosexuality is not normal, but homosexuals want very badly to be considered normal. They consequently will always want more consideration, they will not stop pushing for more acceptance.

    • James1225

      “They consequently will always want more consideration, they will not stop pushing for more acceptance.”

      Can you blame them? Wouldn’t you do the same if you or someone you knew and loved were gay?

      • Art Deco

        Wouldn’t you do the same if you or someone you knew and loved were gay?

        Of course not. Whether or not an activity is good, right, or prudent is not a function of my personal association with the practitioner. (Or yours, while you are at it).

        • James1225

          I think that it is one thing to condemn people that you don’t know for their homosexual lifestyle. It is another to know the people involved and understand their situation. People know themselves better than people like you or the Magesterium or the Pope know them. They know what is right for themselves and deserve the right to live their lives their way.

    • Melinda Selmys

      You’re equivocating here between “normal” in the sense of “as it is with the majority” and “normal” in the sense of “acceptable.” Also, your example is weird. Sure, a kid with six fingers is not “normal” but that doesn’t mean that we would recommend that their sixth finger be chopped off. The sixth finger is normal for them. Also, shame and stigma have been shown to fuel disordered behaviours for many people — think, for example, of the drunkard who drinks to escape the shame that he feels at the consequences of his drunkenness, or the overeater who eats in order to escape his sense of shame at being fat. Shame locks people into patterns of addiction. It is the opposite of mercy, of forgiveness, and Christ died in order that we could be freed from it.

      • Watosh

        I am just saying that normal means normal. Some say that because they claim to be born as homosexuals that therefore that means that they are normal. And it would appear by the behavior of many Americans and their politicians they have been definitely freed of any sense of shame, yet they seem locked in patterns of addiction to things like bombing and lying. Our politicians certainly have no shame so they repeatedly lie to the public and don’t feel any shame in so doing. Now saying being born with six fingers is not normal, is simply making an observation, not a recommendation that their sixth finger being chopped off. However should they decide to have their odd finger removed there are surgical procedures that will enable them to do this, they don’t have to either keep their odd finger or have it chopped off, it is up to them. You know some people who do not like the shape of their nose will have a nose job. Melinda is resorting to emotion rather than logic, which is why Adam was wrong to listen to Eve’s take on eating the apple. (I am giving Melinda another windmill to tilt at.)

      • Pay

        Having six fingers is not normal. Not normal objectively or subjectively. This type of equivocation is common in the homosexual community. It is an attempt to redefine normal.

        • Alex Guenser

          And having six fingers is perfectly acceptable. Just as being homosexual is. So if the only point was that homosexuals and people with six fingers are rare, then okay. So what? Most people who bring up what’s “normal” are attempting to redefine that because something is rare, it is bad. Just like Watosh.

          • Pay

            Having six fingers is pathology. We know how the human body is ordered. That is exactly the problem with gay propaganda. It attempts to redefine health and pathology so that their deviant ideology may triumph.

            • Alex Guenser

              Wow, this doesn’t even make sense. Pathology is the precise study and diagnosis of disease. Having six fingers is pathology? What did you even mean to say, that we know the pathology of having six fingers?

              Wow, your propaganda doesn’t even make sense. No need to redefine health or pathology, but it would help if you knew it and could use it in a complete sentence.

  • Sam Scot

    “Before GLBTQ activists began to demand full legal and social acceptance for their agenda, including the redefinition of marriage, persons with SSA or sexual identity disorders were either ignored or treated as comic relief—stereotyped as limp-wristed fairies.”

    Dale, I applaud your basic approach, but what you describe above does not correspond to what I saw over the past 40 years. Same-sex lobbyists pursued their quest to destroy marriage, the military, and the Church, not as a result of mass cruelty from the general society, but in the face of tolerance and surrender. The more gentle and accepting the culture became of homosexuality, the more aggressive and vicious the homosexualists became, to the point of persecuting Christians who refuse to join the chorus of praise for their sin. It’s not virtue that’s intolerant of sin; it’s a demonic attachment to sin that can’t abide the infuriating example of virtue.
    It’s been a compromise among sinners: The more Western society became addicted to sterile relations between men and women, the more it decided that marriage is meaningless and that sodomy is “no big deal.”
    We need to help heal the psychological traumas that result in homosexualists’ fury, but not delude ourselves that normal mores somehow caused them. Yes, “gay” lobbyists seem enraged. But they’re crazy. Our culture’s actual crime is our failure to uphold normal life.
    Children who develop same-sex attraction rarely come from normal households. “Normal” means with parents married for life, who spend time with their children, helping their character develop through love and self-sacrifice, where the children learn generosity and virtue. And where they are protected from bad example and sexual predation by adults and other children.

    • Deacon Ed Peitler

      Nailed it!

    • Florin S.

      Aug. 27th…but those gay activists are a minority of the whole…the sad thing is that just a few can bully others into complying….one atheist can demand that there be no external signs of Christmas allowed…and he wins because those who disagree, for the most part, remain silent. And let’s not forget that it is not the LGBT people who have caused the dissolution of traditional marriage…it is those who are married and who debase marriage in many ways who have done this. We back down because we don’t want to be labeled as ‘bigots’ … but we don’t see those who would make our culture morally corrupt backing down. We need to get a spine and peacefully counter the radicals who demand that deviant behavior be accepted as the norm; we see those who aggressively demand that we terminate the lives of millions and millions of humans in the womb call us ‘anti-woman’ if we protest…even after the Gosnell horrors, Pelosi claimed that abortion, including late term abortion, is, for her ‘sacred ground’…did she mean a ‘sacred right’ to murder? Evil exists and thrives because so many good men and women do nothing…speak out and do not cower when attacked by verbal slurs…go into the public square and bring others with you and speak out…many will come and join you.

    • loretto69

      Children who develop same-sex attraction rarely come from normal
      households.

      People who develop ssa do not come just from divorced homes or single-parent families. They often grow up in homes where the parents are married for life, take the children to mass, teach them the faith and take them outings and spend time with them. None of that guarantees that a child will learn those things, anymore than it prevents a child from having an unwanted pregnancy or a problem with drugs or alcohol or get divorced. Because even parents who try their best often fail in some area, and children are exposed to a huge array of infuences outside the home. Many a family has only discovered this when they find that despite their best efforts such things happen to them. Remember the old phrase “There but for the grace of God go I?” Remember it and be thankful that you were graced and try not to judge other families so harshly.

      • Sam Scot

        “Children who develop same-sex attraction rarely come from normal
        households.”

        Read carefully. I’ve italicized it this time. “Rarely” doesn’t mean “never,” The converse is even more striking. I’ve known a few homosexuals who come from intact families, but very, very few. Research I’ve read does bear this out. It isn’t harsh to say this, any more than it’s harsh to point a traveler to the less dangerous of two paths. We can’t control souls who have free will, but the facts do give us encouragement that the sacrifices we make to treat children with respect and love, and to teach them to be chaste and savvy, will on the whole help them lead better lives. That’s a good thing.

        • loretto69

          Thank you. You’re right. I missed the word “rarely.” I agree with so much of what you say, but you seem to be speaking from the fortunate position of one who knows, has learned, or has been taught the vital necessity for faith and virtue. Many have not and fall into sin. The problem with sin is that we are blinded to it until we begin to feel its consequences, and it is grace we need to set us free from our own bad choices and sinful behaviour. That is why I agree with the premise of the article, that a new perspective is needed, primarily on a personal level. I agree completely with our need to resist a gay agenda and not to allow marriage and the family to be redefined to meet the needs of a few. But Catholic families that deal with this issue go one of two ways. Many would rather see the church change or society than themselves or their children. A few resist and uphold the teachings of the faith, all the while learning to their dismay where their personal failings contributed to their child’s ssa. They face censure among their extended families for being rigid and uncharitable for not accepting their child for “who they are.” People with ssa and their families won’t feel shame if they don’t begin to understand the language of faith- or they will feel it and blame others for it – i.e., the church and her followers for being rigid and unloving. The reaction to this issue has to be many layered. On a policy level the strong in faith need to fight the public battle with wisdom and charity but fully in support of church teachings. On a personal level, families need to be properly catechized on the wisdom of those teachings – and believe me, this is not happening, or is happening unevenly. I believe though that like the long pro-life battle where some important victories are now being won, people will find the ways to evangelize and catechize that will win souls.

          • Sam Scot

            “The reaction to this issue has to be many layered.”

            Totally agree. For people to move from where they are to a different spot, they need to be both uncomfortable where they are and more comfortable about where they’re going. That definitely applies to families who have turned out damaged kids and to the damaged kids themselves. Charity and cheerful common sense from friends and spokesmen are essential in showing the way to reality. Not that it will prevent the furious denials and denunciations from those in trouble. They are embarrassed, and need to be worn down by kindness and the truth.

            In the article linked (I hope) below, Hilary White points out that what’s been missing from the official U.S. bishops’ approach to same-sex “marriage” is the willingness to mention the drawbacks of joining the “community” built around same-sex attraction, which Dale mentions.

            “the fortunate position”

            Heh. What position? A convert. Someone trying not to make the same mistakes twice. I am very fortunate.

            Hilary White

      • jenny

        “… a child from having an unwanted pregnancy…” is an excerpt from above. – I think that is about girls.

        I would like to add something similar for boys:

        “…. a child from unwillingly impregnanting a girl..”

      • James1225

        “None of that guarantees that a child will learn those things, anymore than it prevents a child from having an unwanted pregnancy or a problem with drugs or alcohol or get divorced.”

        Those are much worse outcomes than ssa. I wouldn’t group them in the same category. Having a ssa child does not make one a failure as a parent.

        • Timothy J Williams

          Yes, it does.

          • James1225

            That’s what you call a terse, rude and ignorant response.

            • Timothy J Williams

              No, it is simply factual. And I speak as a failed parent myself. I could have and should have done things very differently. But no matter what the price, I will not declare homosexuality to be normalcy, “OK,” a lifestyle choice, or anything other than what it is: an abomination.

              • James1225

                I’m sorry that you feel that you are a failed parent yourself. But I just want to reiterate: I am not a failed parent just because one of my sons is gay. You need some diversity training.

                • Timothy J Williams

                  LMAO! “Diversity training.” Ha ha! You are on the wrong web site, my friend. This is a web site for “faithful Christian laity.” Diversity training is for Democratic Party faithful.

                  • James1225

                    Diversity training is most needed by those who think they least need it. Christians especially need it since they erroneously view gays as “an abomination”. They are people, like you and me.

                • Augustus

                  Ah, so the truth finally slips out. Fellow travelers of the gay lobby are really Stalinists who think their opponents need re-education.

                  • James1225

                    I let this comment go at the time because it didn’t seem to deserve a response. But I just have to wonder. What does diversity training to get people try to get along with those different than them have to do with Joseph Stalin? I don’t see the connection.

                    • Pay

                      Because it is forced indoctrination. It is propaganda. It is wrong.

                    • James1225

                      How do you find my comments so quickly? I don’t see you listed as one of the people following me.

                      People shouldn’t need indoctrination to learn how to get along with other people. But schools, companies and the armed services have found it necessary to raise people’s awareness.

                    • Pay

                      It is indoctrination and propaganda.

    • 441019

      I agree with you. If homosexuality is normal, as we are being told by the gay activists, why was it that in my entire high school, which was a Catholic all-girls high school, there was not one lesbian? (unless it was someone who was “secretly” a lesbian) Among almost everyone that I knew as I was growing up, there were no homosexuals. However, now that homosexuality has become considered normal and acceptable in society, there seems to be a great increase in it.

      One of the stated goals of the Communist Party, in the book “The Naked Communist” (from the sixties), was to make homosexuality seem normal, healthy, and natural. Of course, their goal was to conquer the U.S. from within, and one method was by destroying the family and traditional morality.

      • Tom

        I didnt think there were any homosexuals in my highschool either, but I discovered differently after those students had graduated. Even one of my best friends turned out to be gay.

        • 441019

          You’re right–there may have been some homosexuals in my school that I didn’t know about. My son had a classmate who turned out to be gay. He (the classmate) had parents who had very high academic standards for their children and he was expected to study a lot–I don’t know if that had something to do with it. However, homosexuality seems to be much more common today.

          • taizegoose

            Human sexual orientation is fairly constant over the history of the human race. LGBT Christians, more and more, are trusting what they read in the Bible: Fear not/Do not be afraid (365 times in total in the Bible). More and more straight Christians are less fearful of those who are different, too

    • Alex Guenser

      Children who develop opposite-sex attraction rarely come from normal households.

      How do you propose to allow homosexuals equality – equality in marriage and law and the military, and non-discrimination, while preventing the destruction of those things from some of the extremists?

      • Sam Scot

        Not sure I follow. “Children who develop opposite-sex attraction rarely come from normal households . . .”? Er, actually they very commonly come from normal households (as I described “normal”). In fact, they also come from abnormal households. Opposite-sex attraction is practically everywhere you look, shockingly—kind of the norm, you might say. (I apologize if I’m missing something.)
        On your second question, I don’t propose to allow perversion special privileges—which its lobbyists falsely describe as equality—at all. In order to protect goods like marriage, the law, the military, our children, and so on, we need to tear down the tyranny that is trying to force such unlivable absurdities on us—wall by doorjamb by major appliance, if necessary.

        • Alex Guenser

          They do? Can you show statistics on how often children who develop opposite-sex attraction come from families whose parents are married for life, who spend time with their children, helping their character develop through love and self-sacrifice, where the children learn generosity and virtue.

          Opposite-sex attraction is the norm, and occurs in households with good parents and bad. The same for same sex attraction. Just like interracial attraction occurs in households with good parents and bad, and the same for same race attraction. Your upbringing hasn’t been shown to have measurable impact on sexual orientation – the greatest predictor of adult sexual orientation is childhood toy preference, in fact – about age 2 to 3.

          Thank you for being so derogatory, showing your disdain, to make it known you are not actually interested in treating homosexuals with equality at all. That you believe they should be substandard, in marriage, in the military, should be discriminated against. Thank you for admitting this, because before it seemed like you were trying to play the victim. Instead, it’s obvious that you are the one who is trying to enact tyranny in forcing gay couples out of the things straight couples have, with violence if necessary.

          If your only method of “protecting yourself” is to attack same sex families, then you really are tyrannical. I hope one day you see that my family is no threat to you. And I hope that one day you will see that preventing my step-son, fiance and I from being treated equally, and calling us derogatory names, and by attacking our struggle for equality, you do nothing to protect marriage, the law, the military, or your own children. You only attack me.

          • Sam Scot

            Tough love. I didn’t attack you, and I wouldn’t. I described acting on same-sex attraction as a perversion, which it is. All sin is a perversion of our real human nature.
            You won’t believe me for now, but that’s okay. The question is how good you are at going “out of your selfishness” (a Pope Francis phrase). Personally, I’m working on it.
            Human addiction and sin, mine and yours, always takes the same form. If we get attached to something that doesn’t work because it’s disordered, we start blaming the problems it causes on other people, and on human institutions—because it seems too big a project to get out of the hole we’re in. But that’s an illusion.
            Pope Francis again: “The gate that is Jesus is never closed, . . Some of you might say to me, ‘But Father, surely I am excluded, because I am a great sinner. I have done so many things in my life.’ No, you are not excluded! Precisely for that reason you are preferred, because Jesus prefers the sinner, always, in order to pardon him, to love him.”

            • Alex Guenser

              Acting on interracial attraction was viewed as a perversion too – and anyone who fought against the struggle for equality by calling interracial couples perverted and about “special rights” and “tyranny” simply for wanting equality was definitely seen as attacking. Do you believe that?

              Going out of my selfishness – that’s something I work on daily with trying to consider my fiance, my step-son, and others needs before my own wants.

              I agree that human addiction and sin take the same form. My relationship right now with my fiance works very well, and I see a lot of similarities in my parents relationship. We have had struggles, of course, as all couples do. Mostly due to lack of communication: when I do something that bothers him, if he lets it bottle up, his resentment grows and he lashes out in wrath. But as my parents have learned and we are learning, it’s much better to communicate what you’re feeling before you let it turn to anger.

              I’ve always thought that if my relationship was disordered – that if we were abusive, or that we weren’t good parents to my step-son together, or if I didn’t listen to him – that I could see it easily. But being in a real relationship it can be hard – I see how others can say they blame themselves and deserve the abuse, or that the kid is the one to blame, or that the other partner is always in the wrong. If a relationship that you become attached to is disordered, then you really need to see why that is. And that goes for all relationships, not just spousal ones – even relationships with Christ!

  • jcsmitty

    The Catholic support group “Courage” helps those with same sex attraction live chaste lives.. Sadly, when I tried to put some info in our church bulletin to alert parishioners about this group’s existence, our pastor rejected it.

    It’s very sad indeed that Gov. Chris Christie signed a law prohibiting reparation therapy in New Jersey. A similar law was proposed (passed?) in California.

    Just as with abortion, gay marriage and the sexual revolution (couples living together, e.g.), individual priests would rather not discuss homosexuality at all. Sin abounds when we don’t shine a light on it.

    • jenny

      I encounter a similar problem … priests do not find interest in exposing such issues: I think that if they had children , their own children with such problems, they would feel the pain in a very direct and personal way, and therefore, would welcome such discussions.

    • 441019

      I have the impression that today, priests don’t want to say anything controversial. If I attend Mass on Sunday, the priest, in the sermon, only says neutral things. The priests never mention homosexuality and rarely mention abortion. They don’t even mention modesty.

  • Florin S.

    Aug. 27th, I agree with this…Jesus always showed mercy and compassion and we should do the same.

  • Reasonable_Opinion

    Ms. O’Leary outlines the current paradigm very well and offers the beginnings of a good Catholic response–therapy to address the underlying issues and a trusted network of friendship and fellowship for those SSA people seeking to live a life of chasity. She and others would do well to mention Courage International http://www.couragerc.org as one of–if not the sole “Catholic approved” apostolate in this area. Founded in 1983, all Courage lacks is a higher public profile and the support of Catholics everywhere. With an outstanding Episcopal Board and Executive Director, great things are happening at Courage (and EnCourage, outreach to parents and others of those with SSA).

  • jhmdeuce

    “Pope Francis sought to address the problem of how to deal with a priest with SSA. He said that he couldn’t judge.” But he can judge that the man is not suited to be a priest and should be laicized.
    The method of understanding portrayed in this article is considered “hate” by homosexuals. As in any liberal discussion of “oppressed” people, it is only the “victims” of the adjudged oppression who moderate the discussion.
    This is spiritual warfare. The truth needs to be stated and the moral lines drawn, by the Church, to prevent the idea that sodomy is in ANY way acceptable.
    Christ, and the Cross, is always the only answer.

    • mtq

      jhmdeuce – you have touched on something that has been bothering me for some time. The language used promotes the attitude. Abortion = Murder , NOT “free choice”. Fornication = an Illicit Sexual Act, NOT “freedom”. Until we stop using “politically correct” language in place of clear, concise, accurate adjectives to describe sinful/criminal activity, the confusion and chaos will not cease.

      • jhmdeuce

        We can stop using politically correct terms for sin, but, unfortunately, the hierarchy will not. They are, after all, politicians; professional Catholics. Most of them are so heavily invested in the progressive march through Christ’s Church, that they can no longer discern the truth. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing.
        The Pope, again unfortunately, is of that progressively tinged hierarchy. His old Archdiocese is a shambles. His desire to appear as a simple man of the people is nothing more than shameless exhibitionism. He is a late 20th century, South American Jesuit. That should say it all.
        The last few popes seemed to wonder about of what their office consisted.
        Pius XII and his predecessors had no problem exercising Petrine Authority.
        They KNEW they were pope. Moreover they BELIEVED in the fiber of their being that they were the Vicar of Christ, the successor of St. Peter.
        Any perceived obeisance they received, any pomp they displayed was not for or towards them, but towards Christ. In all humility they accepted honor for Christ and they taught and corrected and exercised a teaching facility as Christ.
        Francis is more dangerous than his errant bishops.
        Venerable Fulton Sheen, pray for him, and us.

  • hombre111

    Save our culture? Why this obsession with gays? If, as we all believe, the family is the heart of our culture, the Church might do everything possible to help married people and their families flourish. If someone is a single parent, where is the wisdom and support? I am a priest today because a parish reached out to my poverty stricken family with and alcoholic father. The Church passionate about flourishing families should fight the division of our society into the haves and the have-nots, because so much of the pressure on families is financial.
    But we won’t do this. Fighting gays means I can feel superior and my attitudes and habits don’t have to change.

    • Art Deco

      Save our culture? Why this obsession with gays?

      Why not pose that question to those components of the bar, the social work apparat, the creative arts fraternity, and the educational apparat for whom their attitude toward sexual deviants is the occasion for endless self-congratulation and petty harassment of the opposition. Why not ask the gay lobby why it is so self-centered and self-obsessed, dedicated to making itself obtrusive and dedicated to the distortion and disfigurement of institutions in order to gain little baubles of affirmation for itself???

      • hombre111

        After surviving somehow for ages beyond counting in the closet, the gays have finally come out in the open. It would have been suicide for most of them to do it, even fifty years ago. Now comes the tap dance between the gays, those who consider them a moral abomination, and those who realize that they are as human as you or me. In no way are they the ones who destroy our institutions. I put that down to the heterosexuals practicing serial polygamy, the master class who destroy families by paying lower and lower wages, and the global warming deniers who are burning our planet down.

        • John200

          Dear Father Hombre,
          Thank you for the image, that is, a tap dance between:
          1. homo”sex”uals,
          2. those who know that homo”sex”ual behavior is an abomination,and
          3. all of us (ie, those who realize that homo”sex”uals are human).
          You are confused, and now you should be able to see it.

          Then we learn that our institutions are destroyed by:
          1. heterosexuals,
          2. lefty’s favorite boogey man, and
          3. lefty’s even-more-favorite boogey man.

          You ought to be able to see it.

          • hombre111

            As I said, homosexuals form about 10% of our society. Why are they getting all this attention? You are putting them in the center of the stage. Whew. Talk about giving people power.

            • Pay

              Why are they getting the attention? You mean like the non stop coverage on TV, movies, radio, magazines, books, news, plays, newspapers, schools, government agencies, legal rulings, voting ballots, and much more? You mean that attention?

            • John200

              Hombre,
              Your first paragraph is as bad as your previous post, the one I responded to. Leave that aside, I already answered it, and others have helped you to move forward.

              Your second paragraph is a great improvement. It is as if the second person knows the faith and can follow in the direction of the light.

              Good job, that.

              • hombre111

                So, focus on a good life and let the gays be gays, and you will be doing your bit for our culture.

                • John200

                  Father Hombre,
                  Thank you for dismissing me in such cavalier fashion. But let us inquire together… you, who claim to be a priest, and I, who might be priest, deacon, lay, heretic, or, I reckon, anyone at all.

                  You seem to think homo”sex”uals should do things that steer toward hell. Do you think a faithful Catholic should pass unnoticed while that goes on?

                  I often wonder if you are really a priest. I also wonder whether you proofread your own words.

            • Art Deco

              Actually, a broad definition puts it at about 2.8% of the adult population. See Laumann, et al. The Sexual Organization of Society. Alfred Kinsey’s methods were recognized as invalid by serious social researchers at that time and the discredit of his metrics has been part of popular discussion for at least 25 years.

        • Adam Baum

          “Now comes the tap dance between the gays, those who consider them a
          moral abomination, and those who realize that they are as human as you
          or me.”

          You disreputable, brazen liar. Nobody considers PEOPLE evil, only acts. It is you who maintains that people are defined by, and indistinguishable from their acts.

          • Pay

            The key is to minimize “gay” ideology and behavior. You know it is no biggie.

        • HigherCalling

          It would be difficult for a small minority of the population (homosexuals @ 3.8%) to do the damage we see being done to our institutions today. So yes, heterosexuals, who comprise the vast majority of the population, are to blame for our failing institutions. But you leave off an important qualifier. The heterosexuals who practice serial polygamy, who unwittingly support the use of artificial contraception, who praise the bloody extermination of the most innocent of our citizens through abortion, who reject the principle of subsidiarity where it is absolutely essential (education and health care), who have abandoned the natural law, who back every violation of the natural order and moral law…, all have one key thing in common. They are all Liberal. It is Liberalism that is destroying our institutions. It is Liberalism that is destroying the family. It is Liberalism that is destroying the planet. It is Liberalism that destroys everything it touches, just as the Church has said from the get-go, because inherent in Liberalism is falsehood. So next time blame is placed on heterosexuals for destroying marriage, family, and whatever else suits your agenda, please add the all-important qualifier: Liberal.

          It would be absolutely impossible for anyone following Catholic orthodoxy to cause damage to the core institutions of family and marriage. Only Liberalism, particularly today’s Liberal Catholicism, can cause that kind of damage, because for the Liberal Catholic, subjective “goodness” trumps objective truth. It is only on the ground of uquestionably doing good that people can do so much evil as destroying marriage and family. Falling away from Catholic orthodoxy means falling away from truth. Even great and oh-so tolerant and advanced cultures now prefer to question truth but never question their own unfailing goodness. They have fallen away from truth in a thousand directions, and every one of them has led to falsehood. Liberalism is destructive, it is the source of the Culture of Death, and it is a sin.

          • Deacon Ed Peitler

            Ain’t this the gospel truth

          • hombre111

            I think liberals have many things to answer for. But there is plenty of room for blame on both sides. The fact that some conservatives cannot see the evil they create, but choose to blame one side only, shows a serious inability to look in the mirror.

            • Adam__Baum

              “I think liberals (aka socialistists of all parties) have many things to answer for. ”

              Let’s see: Hundreds of millions dead. Abortion and euthenasia millions of others in concentration camps and gulags. The suppression of the individual as chattel for the masterminds of the superstate. The destruction of faith, family and anything else that allows the individual to prosper and flourish without the aid of their golden calf.

              Sin will always be with humanity, Liberalism, with its idolatry of the state, the collective and coercion is an incubator of mass sin.

              More accurately:

              The fact that all liberals will not see the evil they create, nuture and complete, but choose to blame everyone else, shows a serious inability to look in the mirror.

            • HigherCalling

              You might notice that I never brought up conservatives or conservatism. American conservatism IS Liberalism in that both are borne of the same false philosophical source. The battle is between Liberalism and orthodoxy — or more precisely, between falsehood and truth, between evil and good. If we believe Catholicism to be true (that both Christ and His Church are exactly what they claim to be), then we must also believe that to fall away from Catholicism is to fall into falsehood. The political and social liberalism that tolerant and compassionate do-gooders reflexively defend is the inevitable outcome of religious Liberalism that the Church rightly calls sinful. The dangerous thing that is happening in the Church today is that modern liberals have allowed their politics to trump their faith — indeed, their politics now defines their faith. They’ve defined a Catholicism that never was, they’ve designed a Christ Who never was, all in the name of doing good, without ever questioning their compassion or testing their tolerance against the truth.

              • hombre111

                “Exactly?” God talk is poetry, not the language of rational analysis. It is analogy. Metaphor. For instance, when we call God “Father,” do you mean a real father? When we say the Church is the Body of Christ, what, “exactly” is that? What do we do when “mother Church” turns out to be a bunch of old men who guard the institution instead of the children?

                • 441019

                  @hombre111: God IS our Real Father. It is not analogy. If you can’t see Him, that doesn’t mean He does not exist. Jesus Christ taught the apostles, when they pray, to call God “Our Father.” If Someone has created you and loves you, that makes Him your Father. A biological father doesn’t always love his children.
                  Suppose there are two brothers who have a wealthy, loving father, and who are kidnapped or lost at a young age and grow up in poverty. One brother decides to search for his father. After much searching, he finds his father and is happily reunited with him. The other brother decides that he has no father, since he has never seen him, and never tries to look for his father. The second brother is like the atheists of today–who say that God is only a myth and a superstition. Yet they have never tried to find God or find Truth.

          • 441019

            @higher calling — You’re right. But there is some type of brainwashing going on in our culture today that is making people liberal–maybe it’s the media, maybe the educational system, probably both. All three of my adult children are liberal, even though they were not raised that way–they were sent to Catholic schools.

        • Deacon Ed Peitler

          Swear off the Kool-Aid.

        • Pay

          You are kidding? The idea that two men can pose as mom and dad and have children in their custody is a moral crime. That impact on civilization is worse than we can really imagine.

          • hombre111

            Oh, please. Absent fathers. Violence toward spouse and kids. Serial polygamy. Both parents too busy to take care of their kids. Drug or alcohol addicted parents. Poverty. These are the things that are bringing our civilization down.

            • Pay

              Nothing compared to inverted deviant things like posing as mother and father.

            • Adam__Baum

              Two wrongs don’t make a right, neither does a litany of leftwing grievances make a wrong right.

              You want criminals? How about men in collars who parasitically feed off the Church while undermining it.

            • Deacon Ed Peitler

              Oh, I can see you don’t approve of the Obama administration either.

              • hombre111

                Correct.

            • Art Deco

              1. Inept business practices are not defined offenses in any penal code. They are punished by markets, not prosecutors.

              2. The homicide rate has declined by half in the last 20 years, and the means of homicide are immaterial (except to someone who recites gauchiste talking points as an avocation).

              3. There are actually 1.6 million in state and federal prisons. Very few of them are innocent. The mean prison sentence is 2.5 years. About 60% of all dispositions by penal courts make use of various alternative to prison.

              4. Unemployment is not ‘sky high’. It is elevated in large measure due to defective labor law. It is not bringing civilization down. It is an abiding social condition.

              5. The definition of poverty is elastic and, in any case, it is an abiding social condition, not the dynamic source of social entropy.

              6. Why is the depiction of sexual acts a threat worth mentioning and the practice and promotion of sexual perversion not?

            • 441019

              And also the promoting of homosexuality in our society. These things are results of our country turning away from God. The media–television, movies, magazines–and our educational system have a lot to do with it. And poverty, in itself, is not evil. I came from a very poor, large family. My sister and brothers all turned out to be great people and great parents.

        • Art Deco

          I notice you could not be bothered to answer my question.

          1. There is no value whatsoever to making an exhibit of oneself.

          2. Yes, it had occurred to me that homosexuals are ‘human’. You evidently thought I thought they were rabbits. The question is not whether or not they are human, but whether they are to be treated cloyingly and indulgently or told that confessions are at noon, five-thirty, or by appointment (and that office settings and family gatherings are not the appropriate locus for confessions).

    • Pay

      The obsession is by those who would foist this new ideology of evil on society. Children have rights! They should not be exposed to this charade and experimentation.

    • Adam__Baum

      “Why this obsession with gays?”
      We might ask you the same thing.

      I thank God every day, I have two good, orthodox priests in my Church, who spend their days ministering to the sick (I know because my RN wife sees them in the hospital daily) rather than embracing sin on the internet.

    • RichardW

      “Fighting gays means I can feel superior and my attitudes and habits don’t have to change.”
      With all due respect, Father, this article is *NOT* about “fighting gays!*
      I would rather ask why you, Father, are speaking as though helping gays is somehow in conflict with helping families?

      • hombre111

        “Fighting gays.” I was responding to the words of a previous comment. Help families and leave the gays alone. I was talking to a married young woman with sixteen years in Catholic schools. The Church’s attitude toward gays was one of the reasons she left, and she represents so many from her generation. Win the battle, lose the war.

        • Pay

          Oh Please. She left because of the Church’s attitude? Is that not narcissism? Self love? She is so in love with her own correctness she would say no to the Church.

          • hombre111

            You miss the point. She is an example of so many in her generation, maybe the majority, who are tolerant toward gays and appalled by the attitude of the Church.

            • Pay

              No I got the point. I am pointing out the recklessness and solipsism of her position. That she, and others, are appalled at the truth is not an indictment of the Church but of their own narrow and selfish view.

            • Adam__Baum

              If the Church is so offensive to you and your ilk, stop feeding off it.
              Be honest, quit the masquerade and get a job at someplace that supports your ideals. Be a Tarbucks barista.

              • hombre111

                :>) Heh. (<;

                • Adam__Baum

                  Have you considered that you might need help?

            • Deacon Ed Peitler

              you’re an accommodationist

              • hombre111

                Deacon Ed, you look nifty in your tux and bowtie. I guess maybe I am. I sympathize with the Old Guy on Fiddler on the Roof, who argues with God, makes his stand, and then says, and yet…and yet…

                • Deacon Ed Peitler

                  I take that as a genuine compliment. The picture was at a formal fund raiser – dinner and concert – that I organized in my role as my diocese’s Dir of Catholic Charities to garner money to serve the poor. The tux was obtained from the thrift store we operated (again with proceeds going to the poor) which I picked up for $5 that came out of my own pocket. I don’t own my own tux since in my ministry as a deacon, there is hardly a need for it since I tend to hob nob with those who wears rags for clothes. That would be too unseemly.

                  • hombre111

                    There is always something wonderful to be learned about another person. Congratulations for your work with Catholic Charities.

            • Karla Sub

              So, clearly, there are a few things going on.

              1.) A fundamental misunderstanding about what the Church’s *true* attitude is towards those who identify themselves as homosexual.

              2.) The young woman’s perception of how that ‘attitude’ is directed towards those who identify as homosexual.

              3.) This young woman’s inability to separate the ‘negative’ message towards homosexual acts with the teaching authority of the Church about sexuality.

              What is needed, surely, is compassion, but also a solid grounding in *why* the Church teaches what she does about human sexuality, and the boldness to proclaim it without compromise. To do otherwise would be to risk souls. Prayers going out to all those who were short-changed when it comes to the rich deposit of the faith.

        • Steve Frank

          “On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, ‘Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, ‘This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.’ From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him”. (John 6:60-66)

          Where did we ever get the idea that Christianity was supposed to be popular? In fact, I would be as bold as to say that if people are not leaving a church then that church is doing something wrong. The truth always generates opposition.

        • Deacon Ed Peitler

          So she thought sodomy was a good thing? And you told her what?

    • Facile1

      How does one VERIFY INDEPENDENTLY a claim to ecclesiastical authority when the person of interest blogs under an assumed name? Claiming ecclesiastical authority is at best a disservice to the reader and at worst demonic.

      • hombre111

        What authority? I am an old retired guy.

    • mominvermont

      This “obsession with gays” begins with the gay rights activists. They are obsessed. They are the ones who are trying to dismantle marriage and degender it. It is our duty to defend pro-gender marriage while at the same time, as O’Leary pointed out, ministering to the emotional and spiritual health of people with SSA.

      As for the financial aspect, marriage is a huge contributing factor to financial health. So, supporting true marriage is an important way to combat poverty.

      We are not “fighting gays.” We fight bad laws proposed by gay rights activists. There is a huge difference.

    • 441019

      It is the gay movement and the media that are obsessed with gays–not the ordinary person. The gay agenda is being aggressively pushed on our society (and our children). Have you ever read, “The Overhauling of Straight America,” by Marshall Kirk and “Erastes Pill”? It’s an article (later made into a book) that lays out a planned campaign for changing the attitude of the public towards homosexuality. The first recommendation is “talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible.”

  • Paul McGuire

    Nobody is trying to ban so-called “conversion therapy” for adults. The bans in California and New Jersey are aimed at protecting minors from being forced into such damaging therapies by their parents. The reach is limited even further because only licensed mental-health professionals are prohibited. Nothing in either law attempts to restrict the rights of priests and other religious leaders from preaching their beliefs that individuals should live lives of chastity. Minors should not be engaging in sexual activity to begin with so the call for chastity should be the same for all minors.

    Once someone is an adult if they choose to subject themselves to such therapies they are perfectly free to do so.

    • Pay

      Are there bans against encouraging children to self identify as “gay”?

    • Steve Frank

      Damaging therapies? Let me get this straight, even though no “gay gene” has been discovered, we are nevertheless told by the “experts” that homosexuality must be genetic (evidence will show up eventually we are assured). Hence it is supposedly “dangerous” and “self-loathing” to try and change one’s homosexuality via conversion therapy since to do so would assumedly be fighting against one’s genes. Yet when it comes to gender, which is absolutely defined by our chromosomes (XX, XY), the same experts will bless efforts by transgenders to mutilate their bodies via surgery and ingest powerful hormones and drugs to change the gender that was pre-programmed by their genes. So think about it. According to the “experts”, mere psychological counseling to try and change something for which there is no scientific proof of genetic determinism (ie. homosexuality) is supposedly dangerous. But attempts to “undo” ones genetically determined gender via mutilation of body parts, hormones and drugs, all to force a human body into a state foreign to it’s chromosomal make up, is considered reasonable? There seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance going on in the LGBT community.

      • Paul McGuire

        There is no contradiction there. In both instances the experts are encouraging people to live as their true selves. It sounds like you haven’t done a lot of reading about what life is like for transgender individuals so it wouldn’t be very useful to try to explain it to you.

        • Steve Frank

          There most certainly is a contradiction. The experts are performing sleights of hand when they talk about “true selves” in both contexts. For transgenders, the “true self” is defined is what a person wishes to be, not what they are genetically. A person with a male body wishes to be a female, so what they wish is defined as the true self. With a homosexual who wishes to go straight, the opposite is encouraged. They are told to ignore what they wish to be (straight), and stay with what their genes supposedly made them.

          Also, I have no doubt that life is hard for a transgender person. It must be pretty hard for a pedophile too. Whether a psychological condition is hard to deal with tells us nothing about whether it is normal, good, or changeable, so I don’t know how that relates to the question at hand.

          • Paul McGuire

            But you assume that a majority of gay men want to be straight. The fact is most gay men who are not burdened by shame pushed upon them by strict religious rules about sexuality or societal pressure to conform do not wish to be straight. They embrace their true self and find meaningful relationships with someone of the same-sex.

            • Adam__Baum

              No, you aren’t burdened by any reality.

            • Pay

              What is a true self?

              • John200

                Whatever Paul McGuire wants it to be. He will play games with you for a while, then go away.

                Listen to Steve Frank (above), it is all a homo”sex”ual charade.

            • Steve Frank

              How does my point necessarily assume that a majority of gay men want to be straight? The PC groupthink among most experts now is that conversion therapy should never be practiced, even for a minority of cases. So the inconsistency remains in their attitudes toward treatment of homosexuality and transgenderism respectively.

              To your point about a majority of gay men not wanting to be straight, although it doesn’t change my argument, I have to say that I don’t believe that for a second. The very reason that most people have come to believe that homosexuality is not a choice is because they can’t understand why anyone would choose it in the first place. Why would someone choose a sexual orientation that leaves their sexual relationships sterile by definition? It’s like saying most infertile heterosexuals don’t want to be fertile. Maybe a small percentage of infertile heterosexuals wouldn’t have had children anyway, so being infertile makes it easy for them (and the same may be true for a fraction of homosexuals too). But that’s not the norm. Most human beings want to bear children and they want such children to come from sexual union with the one they love. I can’t imagine homosexuals lack this natural human desire any less than anyone else. So yes I do believe most gay men wish they were straight, but in order not to feel bad about it, they need to convince themselves that they are happy that way. And they need to force everyone else to applaud it all in order to keep up the charade.

        • Facile1

          “True selves” or “invented selves”?

      • Pay

        God save us from the “experts”. The politics of transgender this or that and gay ideology are so mixed up with “science” that it is almost impossible to explain things in a logical manner. You must first accept fundamental misconceptions of health and disease before you can buy into the propaganda.

    • Adam__Baum

      Oh the gay fascista is so reasonable, like when a photographer declines to lend his art to the “gay weddding”.

  • PiusFan

    Please excuse me, Dale O’Leary, but this presentation is a paltry, pale shadow of the vigor of our True Faith, and seeks to appease our secular liberal taskmasters by embracing the culture of the therapeutic where everybody is some kind of victim who just needs a shoulder to cry on.

    Mothers aren’t victims when they co-conspire to destroy their unborn children? Are they still victims if they delay the killing until after birth?

    And homosexuality is a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance. Soft-peddling the truth does an injustice to truth and to all of us.

    • gsk

      @PF: Oh please. Isn’t all good spiritual direction “therapeutic”? When you ask for help to combat all sorts of sins/defects, a good director will dig deeper to find out why you are attached to particular vices. For example, we often act in a passive-aggressive manner towards those who have harmed us, and a good dose of forgiveness will clear the decks; other times we act out of fear. Discovering root causes helps to live virtue, especially when combined with grace and discipline.

      Acting on homosexual inclinations is a sin, but what Dale is addressing is the underlying disordered same-sex attraction. Sure, you can lay the whip and demand that everyone “white-knuckle” it through life with a tortured form of sexual continence, but wouldn’t it be better for Holy Mother Church to actually offer a maternal shoulder for those in distress?

      If childhood sexual abuse is involved, we would do well to remember the Scripture: “Woe to those who scandalise the little ones;” and then we should bring them the healing balm of Christ.

      Therapy is not the enemy. Used well, it is a path to wholeness.

      • PiusFan

        Proper therapy as a subordinate component of tackling sin can be of help. That’s not what’s at issue here. At issue here is a fundamental redefinition of the entire situation into a therapeutic one, one that in effect exonerates or greatly heads down the road of exonerating the sinner.

        Do you have any coherent formulation for explaining why a mother who aborts is simply a victim? And if you’re going to adopt that twisted mentality, then why shouldn’t she remain an innocent victim if she kills her child after birth?

        This is just another front for seeking to compromise with secularism. And we’ve seen in the past 50 years how good that has been turning out.

        • gsk

          No one is saying that the mother who aborts is simply a victim. She is a murderer as well as a victim. The anathemas have been hurled concerning abortion, drunkenness, and sodomy. The sin is a given. What is hereby offered is the therapy which helps to explain the underlying causes that comprise the predeliction to such sins. Or is such study useless and irrelevant. Before 12-step programs, alcoholics had little help; before crisis pregnancy centers, the wayward mothers had few options; before reparative therapy for same-sex attraction, homosexuals suffered in silence and were marginalised as reprobates. What do you have against such assistance?

        • Facile1

          I believe women who choose abortion are suicidal to begin with; and so should be treated with the same care and compassion as the seriously depressed.

          As a parish volunteer who was trained to deal with ‘people suffering from depression’, we were first trained to assess the subject’s potential towards suicide. One should always remember, the ‘suicidal’ are ‘homicidal’. One cannot love one’s neighbor better than one loves one’s self.

          Making abortion legal does not help a ‘suicidal’/’homicidal’ woman. Making abortion legal merely allows authorities (the doctors, the police, priests etc.) to ignore the very real suffering of the woman.

          I urge women who had abortions to seek repentance. Our sins are not news to God. God loved us first and has forgiven. God cannot love us any less for our choices. God loves us always.

          As for the LAW with regard to abortion, it has to change. Let us not pretend it serves women.

    • Facile1

      This critique is harsh. Only people who love the sinner have the right to call the sinner to repentance. Leave justice to GOD for He is merciful and we are not.

  • sam

    I recommend that you check out “Courage.net” website which is a Roman Catholic Apostolate founded in 198O in NYC and has grown worldwide for persons of same-sex attraction. Your premise that the Church hasn’t done much is very flawed if you didn’t know about Courage.

  • jacobhalo

    If we are going to continue to call homosexuality, etc. a disorder, we will have a big problem with any new approach. I agree that it is a disorder but they surely don’t.

  • concern00

    Thank you. A well thought out and ordered article. Once again the absence of detractors in the commentary is evidence of the veracity and strength of your case you have presented. No hate here; only love.

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  • jacobum

    Shame? Oh no! That’s not a nice word. Likewise, can’t have shame unless you have embarrassment first. But wait a minute. Embarrassment? That’s another one of those unfriendly words eliminated from the lexicon. After all, one can’t be embarrassed or shamed if one is always a “victim”. Are you not compassionate? Don’t you know that “Victims” are well…”Victims”. They are not responsible for what happens to them! So how can you be such an insensitive, callous, self-righteous bully.? Must be one of those “Catholic” fossils? This is the blueprint to justify anything and the Church Nice has bought it hook, line, and…. Comparing homosexual acts to alcoholism and abortion as a condition to be treated fits the above model well. In short, “I can’t help myself” aka “The Devil Made Me Do It”. The fact that sodomy is one of those sins that specifically cries out for vengeance in Scripture belies the delusional pride that one can negotiate with evil and win. And we wonder why there is a crisis in the Church? It’s like a pee wee football team playing the Green Bay Packers.

  • Seth Wm. Peters

    Have you never heard of the Courage apostolate? and EnCourage?

    What of the Imago Dei Institute?

    God is at work in His vineyard, but the laborers are few.

  • Monty

    There is help… it is called Courage. An approved Roman Catholic Apostolate for those who struggle with SSA.

  • Dale O’Leary

    Thanks to everyone who commented. As a point of information,
    I was on the board of Courage and spoke at their conferences and am in contact
    with Courage in Italy and Latin America. I saw first hand how Fr. Harvey persevered
    with gentleness in spite of repeated rejection from our own. I pray for his
    intercession so that every diocese in the world will have a Courage chapter.

    I read what gay identified men write to each other. Whatever
    they manifest publicly, many are in pain. They call it internalize homophobia.
    They try to kill the pain with drugs and promiscuity. They cling to the belief
    that if they could only eradicate all the negative attitudes toward
    homosexuality – especially religion – their pain would go away. We can
    acknowledge their pain while pointing toward a different solution.

    I believe that the defense of marriage requires a two
    pronged approach: explaining why male/female marriage is the foundation of a
    healthy society and explaining why homosexuality does not work for the gays and
    lesbians.

    Might I suggest Elizabeth Moberly’s Homosexuality: A new Christian ethic. She explains that SSA springs
    from unmet needs and the answer is neither to suppress the need for same sex
    love or to try to fulfill it sexually, but to meet it non-sexually.

    For those interested in understanding more about this I
    suggest my book One Man, One Woman or
    my blog daleoleary@wordpress.comThanks to everyone who commented. As a point of information,
    I was on the board of Courage and spoke at their conferences and am in contact
    with Courage in Italy and Latin America. I saw first hand how Fr. Harvey persevered
    with gentleness in spite of repeated rejection from our own. I pray for his
    intercession so that every diocese in the world will have a Courage chapter.

    I read what gay identified men write to each other. Whatever
    they manifest publicly, many are in pain. They call it internalize homophobia.
    They try to kill the pain with drugs and promiscuity. They cling to the belief
    that if they could only eradicate all the negative attitudes toward
    homosexuality – especially religion – their pain would go away. We can
    acknowledge their pain while pointing toward a different solution.

    I believe that the defense of marriage requires a two
    pronged approach: explaining why male/female marriage is the foundation of a
    healthy society and explaining why homosexuality does not work for the gays and
    lesbians.

    Might I suggest Elizabeth Moberly’s Homosexuality: A new Christian ethic. She explains that SSA springs
    from unmet needs and the answer is neither to suppress the need for same sex
    love or to try to fulfill it sexually, but to meet it non-sexually.

    For those interested in understanding more about this I
    suggest my book One Man, One Woman or
    my blog daleoleary@wordpress.com

    • Pay

      Thank you for your work. The one sentence you wrote here I think explains the entire situation. These agitators who want to invert society want to stop the pain. They want affirmation of their desires and actions thinking it will finally bring them peace. That is what this is all about. It is that simple.

    • Deacon Ed Peitler

      “internalized homophobia”

      I just sat for three hours with a man in Courage who returned to the Church five years ago. He told me that this “internalized homophobia” is a myth perpetrated by active homosexuals. In fact, he says, he has never been the object of so much hate as that which he has received from the “gay community.” We need to stop this victimization crap that some too easily succumb to. I am getting even more suspicious of your assessment of the problem than i was before Ms O’Leary.

      • Melinda Selmys

        It took me seven years of being in the Church after leaving the gay community before I realized that internalized homophobia is real, and that it’s an acidic poison that eats at your identity, your soul, and your relationship with Christ. I still believe the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts is absolutely true, and I am in a wonderful and fruitful marriage with a man who I love very deeply, but I don’t think that either my marriage or my faith would have survived if I hadn’t had the support and help of people who were able to show me how to reconcile my faith and my sexuality without compromising either one. I know dozens of other faithful, Catholic homosexuals who would agree with this statement. Your conclusion is based on far too small a sample.

  • Pat Schwarz

    How can someone be born as a homosexual? Would God as our Creator be responsible for creating a homosexual person? This is the logical conclusion to that belief.

    • Marc

      Pat, the way I’ve come to see it, is that, of course God is not responsible for creating a homosexual person, anymore than He is responsible for creating a deformed or handicapped person; the responsibility, unfortunately, falls back on our first parents, Adam & Eve who were created as perfect, and all their offspring (including us today) would be perfect and Godly had they not sinned; however, since they did sin, they lost that Godliness and perfection and inherited for us, their children, not only their Original Sin, but also the consequences of that sin (all the imperfections in our bodily, mental, emotional, and spiritual natures). Homosexuality, I think, is unfortunately just one of those imperfections, not MADE by God, but PERMITTED by God the way He permits Original Sin on our souls from the time we are conceived until it is erased in Baptism. (God doesn’t put the sin there, that would be blasphemy to think that!) The homosexual person, of course, runs the danger of using this as an excuse, however, to follow the homosexual lifestyle because they were “born that way” and “had nothing to do with it.” Until, or unless, they are able to correct their orientation either through prayer, counseling, “therapy”, etc.. they must lead chaste lives. If they are unable to correct it, then it remains the Cross (for them) that Jesus tells us to take up daily and follow Him with anyway. I hope that makes sense to you, Pat, but that is how I see it in those cases (like me) where there were no socio or environmental factors that “herded” us into this orientation sometime in our childhood years. Most of us are stuck with it, but God is not responsible for it, it is one of the numerous unfortunate consequences of Original Sin.

    • Facile1

      The evidence does not support the contention that anyone is born to commit homosexual acts. There is actually more evidence to support the contrary. BUT whether from homosexual or heterosexual acts, humans are capable of restraint. Is it difficult? YES. But it is not impossible. To say one should always act on our hormones is to excuse the rapist.

  • ann

    Perhaps in most areas of the country, the Church did not address the issue of homosexuals in the congregation, but on Long Island there has been a group called Courage that the Catholic Churches have been running since the 70′s. It helps the gay person in all areas of their life but most importantly in leading a chaste life. Which the Church teaches is the duty of straight people too if we want to follow Jesus.

  • Pat Schwarz

    Marc, agree completely with you that God is not responsible for our sinful nature. It is the consequences of original sin. Our choices come into play for personal responsibility for sin. I guess my question would be is the tendency/orientation to homosexuality present from the beginning of life?

    • Marc

      That is a great question, Pat. Medical science seems to have proven that we all start out female until at some point in our development those of us destined to be male get that X chromosome activated… Of course, if we go with that logic, that would only work one way, for male homosexuals, who have desires for other men that only females should have.. That in itself doesn’t account then, for why female homosexuals feel the need to have the desires for other females that only men should have, since they start out as female and continue on till birth as female. Also, another thing, is the fact that many (but not all) female homosexuals are very manly, or “butch”. While some of it may be a role-playing thing, and some may deliberately “groom” themselves that way, the majority of “lesbians” (I hate that word, sounds so degrading) that I know are “naturally” very man-like in ways that HAVE to be genetic, there is no other explanation for it, their size, their mannerisms, their gait, it has to be in their genes; same for many of the men who are homosexual. Whether its extra estrogen for the males that make them more feminine, or extra testosterone for the females that make them so masculine, I don’t know, but there is definitely something physiological going on that can’t be blamed on social factors. But regardless, the Church is going to have to realize one day that for many of us, it IS genetic SOMEHOW… But like I said before, even that fact does not give any of us with this orientation the “right” to pursue this lifestyle just because it feels “natural” for us, because it’s actually a disordered inclination inherited from Original Sin, and we are obligated to be faithful to our state in life (chastity) and turn this cross into a crown at the end of our lives and not an albatross that will drag us to our damnation. Courage is a Godsend for persons with this inclination. Father Harvey was my Confessor’s Moral Theologian in the Seminary, and I was able to meet him before he died. The man was truly a Saint, and a true visionary for his times in helping people like us live chastely and Godly lives in direct opposition to the temptation constantly offered us by the world that its “okay” to live this “alternate lifestyle”. It saddens and sickens me to see how relentlessly this is being rammed into our consciences by the mainstream media and Hollywood more and more forcefully every day. Satan knows he is fighting a losing battle, but he’s making sure he takes as many souls as he can with him before his defeat.

  • Holy smokes

    There is an organization called SA (sexaholics anonymous) that uses the 12 steps. Many individuals with SSA have learned to become accountable and chaste through the process of recovery. The main difference between the people who join the program and so many others is that those who join have realized that acting out on their lust is destroying their lives. It is one venue for those who want to develop sexual self control, regardless of attraction, through faith and work.

  • Sunny

    Please read The Key to the Unconscious, written by a Psychiatrist, Psychologist and Social Assistant who has worked with Pope Benedict – Renate Jost de Moraes. There you will have the latest and proven findings in the subject of unconscious (also at the pregnancy time) of SSA and many, many other problems. Her approach and treatment are tremendously benefitting people with all types of problems. I have read the book in portuguese, As Chaves do Inconsciente. There may be in other languages because Benedict has the same origin as her, German and he helped her a lot. this book tells the treatment of the first 18.000 patients. Then she has also Borderless Unconscious with 190.000 files.

    • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

      So Benedict was basing his teachings on psychobabble? Who knew?

      • Sunny

        You have not read the book or undergone the therapy so you do not know what you are talking about. That is sad.

  • James1225

    “We must treat same-sex attraction and sexual identity disorders (the so-called transgendered and queer) as what they are—preventable and treatable problems.”

    Or better still, how about not treating them as “problems” at all.

    • Art Deco

      Of course they are problems. They interfere with the construction of normal family life.

      • James1225

        That’s just an excuse that people use to justify their bigotry and homophobia.

    • Pay

      They are more than problems. They are pathology.

      • James1225

        So, actually, you’re what they call a “hater”?

        • John200

          Actually, you are what they call a homo”sex”ual troll or, more generally, a “liberal doink,” or, well, since you asked, a heretic who should be pitied.

          I have prayed for you, and I will do more. May God have mercy on your soul.

          Any questions?

          • James1225

            I’m a heretic? How many people in this world do you consider to be heretics? I might be in good company.

            • John200

              No need to count them. You are the one trolling the discussion, the one immediately at hand.

              You are in excellent company as long as you stay at CrisisMag, but you don’t seem to know it. On the other hand, maybe you are learning something in spite of yourself, as you continue…

              Trolling, trolling, trolling on the river,
              Trolling, trolling, trolling on the river,
              Trolling, trolling, trolling on the river, …

              Jump in and pick up the tune, James, sing along, you will feel better. It’s Proud Mary, the old Creedence tune. Here it comes on the guitar…

              Big wheel keep on turnin’…

              • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

                You sad, arrogant soul. You have my pity and prayer.

                • John200

                  Oh dear, Jim, you are mistaken. Pointing out truth indicates neither sadness nor arrogance.

                  Thank you for the prayer. I hope you are in the good graces of the one to whom we pray. You might consider whether homo”sex”ual trolling is bringing you into His grace. There is some truth down that road. You just go on ahead, I’ll await reports of your progress.

                  • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

                    There is little that is sadder or more arrogant than ‘pointing out truth’ when one has but little grasp of it. ’tis, indeed, a pity.

                    • John200

                      I know enough of the truth to see that you are beginning to learn it, and that you are a reluctant scholar.

                      That is why you are spanking yourself soundly in this little discussion. Why don’t you stop, listen, read, and give yourself a break?

                • John200

                  Jim,
                  YOU are making a sad and arrogant (yup, pitiful, as well) display of yourself. You are not the first homo”sex”ual troll to play this game.

                  We have seen the formula many times. You can’t stand so much as a few words against your perversion, especially because the words open a pathway between you and truth.

                  The response: No substance, just that little yappy dog act, with a few ad hominems thrown in. They do it every time. And they (maybe you, if you don’t learn anything) will do it again. And so on, and so on, and …

                  • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

                    Wow, you can even jump to conclusions as to my ‘perversion.’ Like I said, except even more so, wow!

                    • John200

                      Homo”sex”ual activity is perversion. You understand that and do not need further instruction on the subject.

                      The truth wows you, I can see that. Of course, it does.

              • James1225

                That was very creative of you. I see what you did there. I may be a troll, but I’m not a quack that calls gays “homo”sex”uals”.

                • John200

                  Dear James,

                  I’ll give you a few lines on homo”sex”ual activities.

                  Homo”sex”ual activity is not sex. It is use of the other unfortunate as an object. It is masturbation, sometimes mutual. You can see the results, they are not well-kept secrets.

                  • James1225

                    If it weren’t so sad it would be comical to think that someone like you who doesn’t have the slightest understanding of how two men or two women can happily share their lives with one another could speak as if he were an expert on human sexuality. You are truly a piece of work.

                    • John200

                      Thank you for the measured reply. It is gratifying to correspond with a person of such careful thought and judicious temperament.

                      I have a great deal of understanding, but you have already figured that out. Let it pass.

                      Troll on, brother.

        • Pay

          Truth is hate to those who hate truth. Everyone is termed a “hater” by those who are unprincipled.

          • James1225

            Ah. Truth. Homosexuals are a pathology. That is the truth. Sure it is. What you think you know about truth and what really is truth are two totally different things. Believe me. I know.

            • Pay

              The desire is unnatural. It is pathology. There is help but some are so trapped and warped they cannot help themselves.

              • James1225

                OK. That’s your argument. It is unnatural. Therefore, it is a pathology. Psychologists do not agree with you.

  • Fatherharry Graham Potter

    No matter what course you take in trying appease the aggressive gay lobby, it will not be enough for them, just as it was not enough for those who demanded admission into Lot’s house. They would not stop until they had defiled his family, so they threatened violence. Today they wish to defile marriage and turn the Sacrament into a sacrilege, because the same is true with the admission into the Kingdom, the Church. Gays and the others will not be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven with the rest of us sinners UNLESS they too accept the tag of SINNER, not just “someone with a disorder.”

  • Meg

    They have NOT competed on the free market of ideas, but rather through force by legislation. Would a gay-oriented ‘boy scouts’ succeed on its own merit? Probably not, therefore force through legislature is the only. Would gay friendly churches or businesses do well in the name of freedom? Perhaps, but rather than permitting it to evolve, forcing businesses through the IRS, legislation, fines and etc gets them where freedom will not, and even our churches and charities are very liable to be forced.

  • Paul M.

    As a recovering alcoholic in a twelve-step program of recovery and a man with same-sex attraction, I find your correlation between the two to be particularly troubling. I don’t consider my sexual orientation to be a disease (which alcoholism is), but rather a gift from God, as indeed all sexuality is. Why there is so much anti-gay propaganda circling among the religious right when pre-marital sex and unmarried couples living together is probably greater in number. Is that equally sinful in the eyes of Holy Mother, the Church?

    • Art Deco

      1. Alcoholism is not a disease.

      2. Referring to defects and misfortunes as ‘gifts from God’ is irregular

      3. Again, and in reference to the repulsive Fr. Hombre111, public discussion of homosexuality is driven by the demands of the gay lobby and people who fancy themselves its tribunes. It is impudent to complain when other people provide an answer to a demand. Many of us were content when this was a sub rosa phenomenon not given much public discussion.

      • Paul M.

        Art, your point in #1 would thereby disprove the merit of this essay because Alcoholics Anonymous exists on the premise that alcoholism is a progressive illness. If you don’t believe that alcoholism is a disease, how can AA be effective and how can the approach of a twelve-step recovery to homosexual behavior be an effective means to treating a disorder?

        • Facile1

          Art Deco is correct. Alcoholism is not a disease. There is an element of choice.

          Getting drunk is not as though one was bitten by a mosquito. Same with sexual acts. Saying our sexuality is a gift and therefore indulging in any manner of sexual acts is not a sin is like saying God gave us opposing thumbs and therefore indulging in any manner of strangulation is not a sin.

      • Facile1

        I agree with you and I responded to Paul M.

      • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

        Your assertion relative to alcoholism reveals how pointless it is to pay the slightest attention to anything you have to say. May God spare anyone near you the ill effects of your lack of understanding and pride.

    • Marc

      Paul, I used to think as you did, but in reality, being homosexual is only a “gift from God” if you accept that He has permitted you to have it (He did NOT give it to you) so that you may use it as a means of achieving great spiritual perfection with it by remaining faithful and chaste, since He makes it very clear in Scripture and as a 2,000 year UNALTERABLE TEACHING handed down directly from the 12 Apostles (who received it directly from Our Lord Himself) that it is not a NATURAL and GODLY expression of sexuality; it is a defect resulting from inherited Original Sin, no different than retardation, actually, because it is truly a RETARDATION of true sexual function. Sexuality, when used ONLY as God intends, is definitely a beautiful gift, through the sacrament of marriage (between a man and a woman ONLY); Do not let the world and pop culture sway you into thinking that VIRGINITY and CHASTITY are disordered, unhealthy, and backward, because it is precisely THAT thinking which is disordered and backward! (Please don’t allow yourself to fall into that lie, or worse, remain in and propagate it) Virginity and chastity are also sexual gifts, because they are both EXPRESSIONS of sexuality also, and if you read the lives of the Saints, particularly the great Mystics, virginity and chastity espouse you to Christ much more intimately and profoundly than the married state ever could. And yes, you are absolutely right that premarital sex among heterosexual couples is greater in number, because heterosexuals far outnumber homosexuals, and YES, that is equally sinful in the eyes of Holy Mother the Church Who guards this also as an UNALTERABLE TEACHING OF CHRIST given directly by Him to the twelve Apostles. You can be ABSOLUTELY SURE that NO ONE is “getting away with it”, because even if the clergy remain silent about it, and Catholics continue to do it (while deceiving themselves that they are still “good Catholics”), every single one of them will face Christ one day and there will be nothing they can say to Him in their defense. God cannot be fooled, and while He remains patient and waits for us to use our free will properly, He will avenge Himself at the end of our lives if we stubbornly choose not to. Please, Paul, DON’T BE ONE OF THEM! I know you mean well, and are searching to make this a “positive”; but take it from me, who have been exactly where you are, the way of Christ, as given to the Church, is the ONLY positive way in this situation; any other path will end in disaster, even if it doesn’t manifest right away! And don’t worry about the “haters” either; they too will have to answer to Christ for their uncharitableness; but please don’t label them haters if they’re only standing behind Church teaching. What makes them uncharitable,( “anti-gay”), is if they refuse to respect us – who live chastely, as Christ requires – as persons made in His Image and loved and redeemed by Him also, simply because we are unfortunately “mis-wired” this way. They won’t get away with anything either! I will pray for you in your struggle. If you pray the Rosary every day (and meditate on the Mysteries as you do so), Our Lady will show you unmistakeably the proper and Christian way through this. I PROMISE YOU THAT! God bless!

  • Catherine

    I find it extremly disconcerting that Pope Francis would say “who am I to judge” in regard to Priests who struggle with same sex attraction. Many, many young boys were molested by priests who couldnot control their same sex attraction The first obligation is to protect children. A pope must judge, if not he should not be a pope.

    • Facile1

      A call to repentance is a call to penance, not punishment.

      Leave justice to GOD for HE is merciful and we are not (which includes the Pope.)

      We are commanded, therefore, to LOVE GOD FIRST (Read Matthew 22: 34-40 The Greatest Commandment.)

      It is only when one truly loves GOD FIRST can one put one’s love for anything else in its proper place — whether it is the love for one’s government or the love for one’s church (paganism); the love for one’s children or the love for one’s neighbors (humanism); the love for one’s sexual partner or the love for one’s self (narcissism).

      LOVE GOD FIRST and go in peace.

  • justathought

    I think the “Q” is supposed to refer to questioning. One moment it is genetic, the next it is a matter of choice, which in itself is enough of a contradiction to demand an explanation. No single gene has been found to substantiate the born claim. Perhaps there’s a combination of genes, but the letter “B” for Bi indicates that the subject isn’t entirely genetic either. Hormones are used to transgender, but never seem to make people straight, indicating the nature of this isn’t by itself hormonal, or chemical.
    Whatever is going on, allowing any single group to take total ownership of an issue which has become public policy, using tax dollars to reeducate the public, is not a good thing.

  • Pierre

    Loss of the sense of sin ?

    Yes, and you are, most of you, guilty of that very sin – spiritual pride – judging others as you’d not have yourselves judged.

    You are a shower of utter hypocrites, vipers, pharisees – and won’t have your evil ways.

    You will all stand before the Mercy Seat and be shown the same mercy you show others.

    And I will be there to remind each of you and ask that very mercy.

    • Pay

      What arrogance. You should consider rethinking this. It is ugly, untrue, and an indictment of yourself.

      • IntellectOne

        Jesus did not leave anyone helpless and too stupid to not make a judgement about intrinsically evil actions (grave sin). Why do you think He said that the Father will send you the Holy Spirit. You should ask the Saints, such as Saint Peter Damian, whether you should tolerate this intrinsically evil enviornment. He will set you straight. Jesus said, anyone that touches one of these little ones will have a millstone around their neck and thrown into the sea. How do you think homosexuals mulitply? You would have to be bind and dumb not to know that God will not tolerate homosexuality nor the pseudo same-sex marriage. God’s Statement was very clear when he sapped and fried Sodom and Gomorrha. God was the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow and always; for ever and ever. .

        • Marc

          Jesus made it very clear to St. Catherine of Siena how grievous homosexual behavior is, so horrible in fact, that even Satan and the other demons are completely disgusted by it, because it goes against nature. He said that although they tempt people to sin this way, at the moment the sin begins, they flee because it is so reprehensible even to them to witness it.

        • Pay

          Why did you post this to me?

  • Pierre

    And aren’t you just a fine fellow – ‘Deacon’ blue with your tabby bow and cheap suit.

    That’s not the way those sent out to preach the gospel were asked to dress. Pharisee. Judas.

    • Deacon Ed Peitler

      I take that as a genuine compliment. The picture was at a formal fund raiser – dinner and concert – that I organized in my role as my diocese’s Dir of Catholic Charities to garner money to serve the poor. The tux was obtained from the thrift store we operated (again with proceeds going to the poor) which I picked up for $5 that came out of my own pocket. I don’t own my own tux since in my ministry as a deacon, there is hardly a need for it since I tend to hob nob with those who wear rags for clothes. That would be too unseemly.

    • barbieahayes

      Brothers and sisters, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraphs 2477 and 2478, tells us to have respect for the reputation of others and tells us that good Christians ought to have a favorable interpretation of the thoughts, words and deeds of each other. Therefore, please let us not jump to conclusions about the way a person dresses. Let’s be wise and humble. And of course, if the conclusion is forgone, then let us be kind in the chastisement.

  • Jack

    There is no nice way to say this but most ex-gay groups are called “gay dating services” by those who leave them. For years the local phone line for Homosexuals Anonymous rang in the bedroom of a male couple’s apartment who met each other at the local chapter of HA. As far as Dr. Nicolosi of NARTH, they consider “success” to be the mere stoppage of homogenital sexual activity. They do NOTHING to address the need for emotional intimacy with someone of the same sex. Even EXODUS is dissolving itself, admitting that they never really worked.

    FWIW, most ex-gay therapies and support groups have, at best a success rate of only 3-30%, and even “success” is loosely defined (consider NARTH above). Would you engage the services of a lawyer who won only 30% of his cases, or a surgeon who had only 30% of his patients survive his procedures?

    Also, transgenderism/transsexuality is NOT the same thing as homosexuality. Please do not conflate them.

    • Marc

      Jack, I have tried all the “avenues” out there. For most people, this dis-orientation is so ingrained that it is impossible to change it (short of a direct Miracle from God, of course). I don’t know if you read any of my earlier posts on this, but the bottom line is, the way Christ gave to His Church through His Apostles is the ONLY way to manage this unfortunate cross (and it IS a cross from top to bottom and arm-tip to arm-tip!) and achieve Christian perfection and eternal salvation. Outside of Mass and the proper reception of the Sacraments (Communion ONLY when not in mortal sin), the daily Rosary (with meditation on the Mysteries) is the fastest, surest, and safest way to achieve this, because the Rosary is available to us 24 hours a day, and Our Lady will never misguide us, but will illuminate our consciences properly through it, and will keep us on the one, narrow — CHALLENGING!! — but right Christian road that will get us to our ideal destination when the time comes. Any other “avenue” than that traced out for us by Christ will end in complete disaster.
      As for the transgender issue, those that I know who have gone through the “transformation” are STILL unhappy and unsatisfied, because the surgery can only change the body, it cannot change the SOUL, which is the true “us” that is made in God’s Image. Science will never be able to fix that. The LGBT phenomenon is first and foremost a spiritual issue (inherited Original Sin) that manifests itself physically in the bodies of those afflicted as one of the unfortunate consequences of the defect of that Original Sin.

  • ray hutchinson

    The problem about this single sex relationship is in the word. Marriage is a blessed sacrament and should not be used for the single sex relationship.

    Without much creativity or imagination, I suggest the relationship could at the very least be called…..’gayriage’.

    This might be acceptable to many and cause a lot less confusion and offense

    • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

      You have pointed out a good lesson for the Church. Some social form that would encourage stability and fidelity in gay relationships has been sought for at least half a century now. A way other than the linguistic and legal framework of marriage would very possibly have been beneficial for gay persons, couples, and families, as well as for society more generally. Not only did the Church fail to give support to such efforts, however, she resisted mightily, penalizing people who proposed such efforts. So here we are.

      It’s a not uncommon situation. In Bernard Lonergan’s pithy formulation, the Church tends to find itself “in the unenviable position of always arriving on the scene a little breathlessly and a little late.” We do, though, tend to get there, and to catch our breath, sacraments celebrated in new contexts, the Word proclaimed a bit more widely.

      Every now and then, though, it would be nice not to be playing catch-up.

  • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

    I think Ms. O’Leary is dreaming. This issue has two immutable components. 1) Homosexual acts are a sin, and an abomination in the eyes of God. Satan is at the root of it. When catholics of conscience stop defending that proposition, we have already lost the battle. Regardless of the phycho-bable to the contrary. 2) The homosexual agenda is primarily a political one. Designed to reform society to suit their image of tolerance and acceptability. Their main target is children. Brainwashing them into accepting homosexuality as just another life-style choice. They are already three quarters of the way there on that one. Mainstream secular society has already swallowed the kool-aid, and now governmental and judicial entities fully support their agenda. My point? We need to hold firm on the solid catholic teaching in this area. No matter what the consequences. And we need to stop making excuses for sinful behavior.

    • IntellectOne

      You are absolutely Right Father Duffy!

      • Marc

        Yes. It is so discouraging to see how rapidly and thoroughly Hell has made such triumphant inroads in this, and also with (if not especially) abortion. I am truly flabbergasted that God’s Mercy hasn’t given way to His Justice yet. No other era in mankind’s history comes close to matching the crimes of this day and age. Truly this can’t go on much longer without God directly intervening somehow.

        • 441019

          Marc, I am convinced that we are now in the “end times,” and that God will soon intervene. We are seeing natural disasters such as floods, wildfires, earthquakes, and even volcanoes in various places in the world–these could be signs from God, but they are not being recognized as signs or warnings from God. The Virgin Mary has appeared hundreds of times during the past century, in many different locations in addition to Fatima and Lourdes, and the message is always that mankind must stop offending God and pray and do penance, or that there would be a chastisement or chastisements of the world. If you do a search under “thewarningsecondcoming,” you can find a website which contains messages from Mary, Jesus Christ, and God the Father, given to a visionary in Europe, regarding the times in which we are now living and things that are going to happen. (I don’t know whether I am allowed to include a “link” in a comment.)

    • 441019

      I agree, Father Duffy. I believe that homosexual acts are a sin. However, if two men or two women want to live together, no one is stopping them. But that is not enough for the gay activists–there is obviously an agenda to change society so that homosexuality, including gay marriage, is considered normal and acceptable. As you said, the main target is children. The media, the political system, and the educational system are all pushing for acceptance of homosexuality and gay marriage, and they are winning–because people are being conditioned to believe they are “bigoted” if they don’t approve of it.
      Even from a purely medical standpoint, sodomy is an unhealthy and dangerous lifestyle–but we never hear that from the mainstream media. I am very concerned about children and young people, who are being misled.

      • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

        The sad fact is that the battle against the unrestricted homosexual agenda is lost – politically, culturally and morally. The only thing left for Catholics to do is hold our own ground spiritually. As this is primarily a spiritual battle. And to never assent to this abomination, even if it means persecution, or worse.

        • 441019

          You’re probably right. And I believe it WILL mean persecution–but we should always stand for what is right, even in the face of persecution.

          • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

            Today’s catholics are totally unprepared for what is coming very soon. Persecution, imprisonment and martyrdom. And not just on the issue of homosexuality. Also: religious freedom; abortion; genetic engineering; euthanasia; legalized pedophilia. Ultimately, it will come down to whether we will deny Jesus Christ or not. And most likely that crucible will come in the form of acceptance or refusal of a Government imposed microchip implanted under the skin.

            • 441019

              I’m sure you’re right. I have been following a website that has messages of divine origin given to a European visionary. If you’re interested, you can find it by searching under thewarningsecondcoming.com. The messages warn about the antichrist and say that a one-world religion will be set up (it will be both a one-world government and a one-world religion). Ultimately, as you say, we will be asked to deny Jesus Christ.

              • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

                I have been reading the messages to Maria Divine Mercy for years. She is is the penultimate prophetess of our times. We need to heed the warnings contained in these messages. And prepare ourselves spiritually for the mission God has for us in the end times.

    • jenny

      I do not think Ms. O’Leary is dreaming…I think she is very realistic about how to approach a homosexual .
      She talks clearly about understanding the cause and looking for solutions.

      • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

        Jenny. This issue is on one hand very complicated, and on the other, quite straightforward. As far as the latter, homosexual acts are a sin. And there is no excuse for sin. And there is no excuse for using sinful behavior in an organized political agenda to transform society to accept that sin. Especially when it comes to corrupting children. As far as the former goes, yes, there are a variety of reasons a person engages in sinful behavior – personal weakness, childhood trauma, mental illness, substance abuse, demonic oppression. So I agree that on an individual basis, each sinner needs to be approached in a particular way, with christian love and charity. And that goes for all sins, not just homosexual behavior. That is how Jesus approached sinners when He walked the earth. Except for the pharisees – He reserved his rancor for them because they were corrupting the faithful.

        • Fr.Duffy Fighting 69th

          Oh, and He was specific about the fate of those who corrupt a child…better a millstone were tied around their neck…

  • IntellectOne

    Notice the devil is even smarter than Dale O’Leary, he has her blinded.

  • Pat Schwarz

    The comments feed on my computer is unreadable with double exposure. Only me?

    • Marc

      Yes, Pat, only you; probably a consequence of your inherited Original Sin! LOL

  • Theorist

    We should either or both say that gays are irredeemable and therefore
    not worth our time or that we only wish to take away their privileges so
    that they can attain unimaginable privileges in God’s eternal empire.
    Also we should say that Christianity wishes to unite man and improve man
    and this means that it must change and therefore alienate man too.
    Perverts are men (and women of course I use the word “man” in the
    universal sense) and therefore they will be alienated however if they
    refuse alienation then they refuse unity and therefore we should ask
    them why they wish to abuse and oppress their fellow men. If they should
    affirm that they do oppress others to live as they want, then just say
    that this proves that they are oppressive and tyrannical and therefore
    have no place in a pluralistic society, much less a Christian one.

    • Theorist

      Liberals and gays want to defend the underdog, the proletariat, the oppressed, etc., but Christians want to defend all classes whether they be rich or poor, gay or straight, and therefore we have and will always have the moral high ground as opposed to the cynical pharisees in San Francisco or Washington DC.

  • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

    Have you read ANY psychological studies since 1970? I would hope you do not adhere to 70s understanding on something as complex as cancer or convenient as cars. Step boldly into the 21st century — there is freedom in Christ up here.

    • Pay

      The problem is the so called studies are so politically and ideologically fueled one needs proper discernment and authentic wisdom to draw correct conclusions. BTW, cancer studies are hardly free from the same biases.

      • Kathy Verbiest Baldock

        yeah, okay. Gay people manipulated the APA. Education is free — your ignorance is costly, not only to others, but you as well.

  • HigherCalling

    Good points, Barbie. Evil has morphed into various shapes through history. Liberalism, defined as the rejection of any authority (especially the religious authority of the Church founded by Christ), is the shape it has taken for the last 500 years. It is dangerous in its present shape because it expresses various single truths that are designed to hide the fullness of truth. Like all heresies, Liberalism places either too much or too little weight to various truths and alters the proper ordering of truths. Thus Liberalism, while enticing to the morally adolescent person, is unbalanced and disordered, and it can only end in falsehood. Anyway, if you haven’t read this little book on the subject, it is well worth your time.

    https://media.benedictpress.com/images/1224/1224x.jpg

    • barbieahayes

      Wow! I have never seen this book before and have just looked up the reviews at various book vendors. Amazing insight from so long ago! Thank you for alerting me to it’s existence. I can’t wait to read it as my bruised heart needs some consolation. It took me a long time of trying to reach those who are infected by liberalism to realize that they will not see. Even those in my own extended family would rather rip my eyes out than listen to the truth. It is something demonic.

  • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

    “Those with SSA and sexual identity are far more likely to suffer from other psychological disorders. . .”

    Do you have any evidence to present for this assertion? My understanding is that this statement would be true if you changed the tense from are to were. It used to be true that a whole host of psychological disorders attended same-sex orientation. Today, no research of which I am aware posits any statistically significant correlation.

    Those psychological disorders did not emerge necessarily from psychosexual
    orientation itself, but from the very cultural meanings that had been attached
    to such orientation. Eliminate widespread socio-cultural intolerance and consequent shame, and psychic health emerged. If we want to improve human flourishing even further, in other words, the key is to overcome thinking like yours.

    • Pay

      Ah, the old It is society’s fault. If only everyone affirmed deviant desires and actions as good then they would have no mental problems. Gay propaganda.

      • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

        No, Pay, just suggesting that arguments be presented without making ‘factual’ claims that are, in fact, untrue. The author claimed that there is a higher incidence of addiction, depression, and suicide among homosexuals than is true of the general population. This isn’t true. And since it isn’t true, one shouldn’t say it. This isn’t to say that he’s wrong to take the basic position he takes here. But being sloppy in assertion of truths undermines the credibility of one’s claim to be affirming Truth.

        Are you really in favor of telling lies on behalf of the Truth?

        • Pay

          The only lies I read our yours. The literature agrees with the author not you.

          • http://methodicanarchist.keepandshare.com/ Jim Englert

            No, it does not. If it did, you would cite it.

            • Pay

              As a start: Gay Male Partnerships No Defense Against Suicide

              Neil Whitehead, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
              January 2010 from the NARTH website.

              But the real point is not battling studies but common sense and reason. Acting in a deviant way and not getting authentic help is a recipe for unbalanced thinking and acting. No surprise.

              • Alex Guenser

                NARTH is not a reliable source of information. The article you cite is a misrepresentation of the findings of this study:

                http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00127-009-0177-3

                Which do not state that “acting in a deviant way” or “not getting authentic help” has anything to do with it, that is your prejudice speaking.

                • Pay

                  It is not reliable to you because you do not like the truth.

                  • Alex Guenser

                    No, it’s not reliable to anyone because it’s a biased organization – and it’s bias is in it’s own name.

    • Alex Guenser

      The correlation is there…

      http://psychcentral.com/lib/higher-risk-of-mental-health-problems-for-homosexuals/0006527

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072932/

      …but the causation has not been shown, and some studies show other correlations that lead to believe that there is more to it than the correlation actually being the causation.

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/12/13/same-sex-marriage-may-have-mental-health-benefits-study-finds/

  • Tom

    The article claims that “While there is no single cause for SSA or sexual identity disorders, there is no evidence that people are born that way and can’t change.” I dont know or care whether people are born that way. But in terms of evidence about whether they can change, how about the testimony of the leader of the world’s largest ‘ex-gay’ organisation, Allan Chambers, when he finally conceded that he’s not known anyone to completely loose their same-sex attractions?

    • Pay

      Probably because he is in the gay culture. Not that hard to see why he holds erroneous views.

      • Alex Guenser

        So even ex-gays who lead a life married to the opposite sex are in the gay culture? So the only people who aren’t in the gay culture are those who are entirely straight, and therefore have no knowledge of being homosexual? Sounds like they are the ones who are more prone to holding erroneous views.

        • Pay

          The propaganda will never change the truth.

          • Alex Guenser

            But anti-gays and ex-gays will always try anyway.

            • Pay

              No, the Gay propagandists so much want affirmation they will do anything to achieve it.

              • Alex Guenser

                Just like interracial couples, right?

                Hey, here’s a challenge. Say you don’t affirm my engagement to my fiance. And then we’ll see what I do to achieve your affirmation.

                • Pay

                  No, nothing in common with race at all. That is a red herring.

                  You want the affirmation of society and all of society’s levers. It will not change anything.

                  • Alex Guenser

                    So interracial couples don’t want affirmation so much they will do anything to achieve it? How did you manage to make the distinction between the two groups wants when their goals are identical? Prejudice?

                    It’s not a red herring, it’s a comparison. A red herring is meant to distract you, while this is meant for you to keep both in mind.

                    I don’t want affirmation of society any more than interracial couples want that. And all of society’s levers? What on earth does that mean?

                    What I want is equality and non-discrimination. And that will change plenty – it even has already.

                    • Pay

                      Race has nothing to do with behavior. Race is morally neutral. Why keep comparing the two other than you want moral equivalence where none exists?

                      There is no true equality when you compare unequal things. Marriage only concerns male and female. To arbitrarily claim there is “equality” by throwing in two men is absurd. Two men cannot form a marriage.

                    • Alex Guenser

                      If race has nothing to do with behavior, then gender has nothing to do with behavior. Gender is morally neutral.

                      I keep comparing the two because they are very comparable.

                      There is a comparison when you compare inequal things. If you compared equal things, your comparison wouldn’t be a Venn Diagram, it would be a circle.

                      Marriage only concerns humans. To arbitrarily claim it is only about male and female is as arbitrary as claiming it’s only about one race. Two men can form a marriage. Two women can. Male and female can. Black and white can. Two whites can. Two blacks can. Race and gender have nothing to do with marriage.

                      And neither have anything to do with your pathetic claim about “wanting affirmation and will do anything to get it.” They want to be treated equally, regardless of race or gender. And it’s getting there.

                    • Pay

                      Gender is morally neutral but marriage demands male and female not the same gender. So why compare unnatural things to natural male/female relationships?

                      You cannot compare unequal items and draw the correct conclusions. Equality, in the respect we are talking about here, includes only male/female as that is what constitutes marriage. And among male/female that would exclude other things that would make it equal as well. Father/daughters are unequal in regard to marriage. As one example.

                      We do not compare adults and children and claim they are equal simply because they are human. If we are talking about driving a car then unequals must be treated unequally.

                    • Alex Guenser

                      Marriage doesn’t demand any specific genders – or races. I know plenty of people marrying, and their marriage didn’t demand them be opposite genders, their marriage was and is just fine.

                      Unnatural? Do you know the meaning of the word?

                      I see you don’t know what a comparison is. You can’t compare equal things, that’s not a comparison. You can compare similar things and draw conclusions from the similarities.

                      There is no reason equality in the respect we are talking about here only includes male/female. It includes equality regardless of gender. Because regardless of gender, a couple can constitute marriage.

                      We do not compare adults and children and claim they are equal because they are human, but we do compare them and say they have the right to speech. They may be unequal, but they both deserve the right to speech. Just as gay couples and same sex couples, men and women, blacks and whites, all deserve equal rights to marriage.

                      Saying otherwise is entirely arbitrary, and you haven’t even posted an argument for it.

      • Tom

        He was president of the world’s largest “ex-gay” organisation for over ten years. How could someone so central to the interplay between homosexuality and Christianity, hold erroneous views about the core of it? I guess you are saying he was blinded to reality?

        • Pay

          He, like so many today, can be easily misled by cultural forces. Whether any particular person can completely lose their desire for wrong things is not really the issue.

          • Tom

            He has long been a committed Christian, and he has worked in a ministry that deals with homosexuality day in and day out. If even he is misled about the topic, then there is little hope for the average person.

  • http://anziulewicz.livejournal.com/ PolishBear

    Well, good luck telling Gay people, “We understand your hearts and minds better than you do.”

  • Ronnie Maccallister

    The gay-affirming media mandates that no message -no insight or information – see the light of day presenting the gay lifestyle as the personally-destructive, harmful blight that it is. No message or viewpoint shall ever emerge regarding the mountain of evidence revealing the laundry list of self-destructive behaviors which parallel the gay lifestyle.

    Vicious, militant gay activists in the media will absolutely SAVAGE any person who ever challenge the propagandist talking points of affirmation for it (Mark Regnerus, ex.).

    A recent gallup poll revealed that Americans think 1 in 4 people is gay. That is absolutely astounding in support of the effectiveness of dishonest gay propaganda.

    I would absolutely HATE to be a homosexual in this current sociopolitical climate. For, God forbid, if I ever got bored with it, or wanted to leave it out of reasons of conscience, or maybe wanted to reconcile my sexuality with my faith. I might end up being another Jamie Rodemeyer, who was enshrined and elevated as the poster boy for the “It Gets Better” project – being held up as proof of it’s effectiveness – only to take my own life because of the reality of the fact that it doesn’t ‘get better’.

  • Pingback: Sins of the Fathers? | Spiritual Friendship

  • jenny

    Along the line expressed above, I have a true story about a priest, my sister and a man having sex with a animal.
    As the priest was telling my family about a young man who was caught having sex with a animal, and expressed his disgust by shaking his head … he did not go any further with what could be the cause of a such unusual act, nor with pointing to a possible solution.
    …. while my sister said with a very sad and full of compassion voice:
    “….. who knows what has happened to this young man that made him afraid of women…”
    Wow, in one sentence my sister pointed toward the possible cause ” something happened to him…”, and also, a possible solution, that of fixing his relation with women at the emotional level.
    So, moving from simple accusation/disgust, we may try to understand the cause , and come up with a solution regarding unusual sex acts…..
    I really thought that my sister knew more theology than the priest, even if she was 15 and the priest was 70+…..

  • MJK

    Unfortunately, the piece is rife with sentimentalism, which is just awful.

    There’s also a clinical and therapeutic tone to the piece that eclipses any serious religious approach. It would be a godsend if folks would stop using secular rubrics to convey their religious and Faithful insights and guidance. Using the language of therapy and sentimental humanitarianism corrodes and corrupts religious insight and guidance; also, with a religious and faith tradition well over 2000 years old it’s bewildering why folks rely on pop psychology and psycho-therapeutic jargon to make points that neither “discipline” would ever truly condone. Stop using the language of secular humanism…please…

  • Pure Ignorance Here

    Wow! You clearly have absolutely no idea what it feels like to be gay. You think I choose to be “fought against” to have my human rights denied?

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