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  • Jesus Wants Gays to be Happy

    by Harold Fickett

    frson

    This month Piers Morgan interviewed Kirk Cameron, asking what he would tell his teenage son if the boy were to confess he was gay.

    Morgan promptly volunteered his own response.  “I would say, ‘That’s great son. Just so long as you are happy.”

    Cameron did better than most in defending his view that marriage can only exist between a man and a woman.  He did not, though, address what was uppermost in Piers Morgan’s mind: the question of the individual’s happiness.

    As Catholics and Christians we undermine the faith when we fail to address the legitimate concern for the individual that has motivated so many to accept gay marriage.  “What would you say to your son?”  We hardly ever answer that question directly, but begin sputtering.

    Then we usually speak in abstract terms about the created order—men and women were made for each other; next, the historical reality of marriage as a bulwark of civilization; and finally we cite the teaching of the Church that homosexuality is “an inherently disordered condition.”  That’s all true, but it sounds like an excuse for  denying a young man or woman sexual pleasure and comfort.  Food. water, sleep, and sex are the four things all humans naturally crave.

    Think about being a boy or girl in early adolescence  realizing that he or she is attracted to the same sex.  Life just became much more difficult than it might have been.  Whether this came about through a genetic disposition, a skewed process of character formation, trauma, or for reasons unknown, that hardly matters.  That young person is now faced with having to deal with sexuality in ways that are more difficult than his heterosexual peers.

    Gay activists want us to believe that the only reason a gay person experiences awakening to same sex attraction as difficult is because of societal prejudice.  If we can create a culture in which homosexuality is seen as just another way of seeking and finding love, then the challenges associated with homosexuality will disappear.

    Unfortunately, if what the Scriptures and the great tradition of our faith reveals is true, the utopian future envision by the homosexual community’s agenda can never come into being.  Even if we all close our eyes, cover our ears, and like the Seinfeld characters shout at the top of our lungs, “There’s nothing wrong with it!” it’s not going to happen.  The witness of the image of God in which every person is made will declare to those with same sex attraction that they do suffer from “an inherently disordered condition,” just as we all know when something about us isn’t right.  Homosexual relationships declare, “We were made for each other!” but that, in the nature of the case, is untrue.

    The voice of conscience can be silenced, of course, through repeated betrayals.  It’s possible to establish a “new normal,” at least in the sense of no longer experiencing guilt.  This doesn’t mean we have triumphed over conscience; it means we are living in despair.

    Because of this, we have to begin the conversation with a person awakening to same sex attraction by saying, “Jesus wants you to be happy.  He knows that you are already elated as well as bewildered by what you are feeling.  That you are wondering what, if anything, is wrong with you.  That you may well be angry about having these feelings, and their consequences, whether you choose to act on them or not.  Christianity asks that you renounce the sexual pleasure to which you are attracted.  This is a harsh discipline, and it may mean living without the pleasures and comforts of marital love.  That’s the bad news; and it really is bad news.”

    “With God’s grace, however, you can find the life God wants you to live and has, indeed, prepared for you.  Because what God reveals to us about how to live is always in each person’s best interest.  It is a prescription for happiness, not misery.  It is a pathway to the fulfillment of your humanity, not its negation.  That is the good news of Christianity and it is as much for you as anyone else.  Whatever renunciation you are called upon to practice, you will be repaid with joy.”   (As testimony to this, see the great article, “The Truth about Same Sex Attraction,” by Steve Gershom.)

    “If you live life as an active homosexual, on the other hand, you may have the greatest time in the world for a time and perhaps even years together, but this will ultimately lead to misery and destroy the promise of your humanity.   We are not simply talking about heavenly rewards, here.  We are talking about what you will experience in this life, albeit down the road far enough that you cannot see it yet.”

    The ultimate misery of homosexuality is, in fact, what every longitudinal study reveals.  An active homosexual life most often results in shortened life span, prevalence of disease, drug and alcohol abuse, and relationships that are brief and emotionally hurtful, with little hope of fidelity, and a high occurrence of violent abuse.  The chances of a person committing suicide are also greatly increased.

    The gay community will now start screaming–sorry, that’s what the data says.  We can agree to the lie you want to propagate all day long and in every legal manner imaginable, but the truth simply won’t go away.

    If I did not believe this, I would never—and I do mean never—recommend to someone attracted to the same sex to do his or her best to live a straight life, and, if that proves impossible, to live a celibate life.  (Same sex attraction often exists alongside opposite sex attraction, and, as Camille Paglia often remarks from her own experience as a lesbian, the boundaries of sexuality are rarely as fixed as the homosexual community likes to pretend.  Some people with a degree of same sex attraction can, in fact, live successful straight lives, and they are far better off doing so.)

    Those who are only attracted to the same sex must remain celibate.  That’s a hard thing to tell anyone, but if we aren’t willing to say this we will have substituted being “nice” for the practice of Christian charity, which is always realistic and tough-minded.  A celibate life is, in a sense, a life of perpetual fasting.  It’s not impossible, as we know from religious and others who have done it, but it’s a challenge—a prospect that might have crushed my spirit if I had faced it as a fourteen year-old.  Every possible pastoral resource ought to be employed in dealing with this condition.  Teenagers who bully others for their gay tendencies ought to have the wrath of God brought down on them.

    Still, I do believe what I have said about the disordered nature of homosexuality.  I believe the collective lie of gay marriage will bring about increasing infringements of religious liberty and soon enough outright persecution.  As the leaders of the Velvet Revolution like the late-Vaclav Havel preached, the only way to counter and free oneself from tyranny is to “live in the truth.”  Seven states and counting have now committed themselves to living a lie by legalizing gay marriage.  This has been done under the aegis of “civil rights.”

    The state cannot grant a right not given by God, because God is the source of rights, not the state.  Once we decide that rights are governmental entitlements, as we are doing now in practice, we must simultaneously commit ourselves to oppressing the truth for the sake of maintaining our collective lie.  That is a truly horrifying prospect, as anyone who has studied life under totalitarianism knows.

    We’d better start saying, “Jesus wants gays to be happy”; and we’d better start explaining how this is true, as well as the horrific consequences if we turn away from this truth.

    The views expressed by the authors and editorial staff are not necessarily the views of
    Sophia Institute, Holy Spirit College, or the Thomas More College of Liberal Arts.

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    • Michael Paterson-Seymour

      I am, myself, same-sex attracted and the thing that best helped me to see it in perspective was a passage in Aristotle’s Nichomachean Ethics (Book VII: 5) that I encountered in my last year at school, where he talks of “morbid states” [νοσηματώδεις], such as “the habit of plucking out the hair or of gnawing the nails, or even eating coals or earth, and in addition to these, sex with males [τῶν ἀφροδισίων τοῖς ἄρρεσιν]; for these arise in some by nature and in others, as in those who have been the victims of lust from childhood, from habit.”

      On a first reading, I thought his comparisons, frankly, bizarre, but, on reflection, I realised he had captured perfectly the pointless and obsessive character of these activities. Gay Pride? Oh! Please.

      He really is  the “philosopher of common sense.”

    • Deacon Ed Peitler

      This article misses a central point.  Pier Morgan and Kirk Cameron should both have had the same answer i.e. they both would want their son to be happy.  Where the distinction lies is in the source of happiness.  Morgan believes that happiness derives from doing what I want; Cameron should realize that happiness derives in all cases from doing what God wants since it was for God that we were created.  (“To know, love, and serve God in this world and be happy with Him in the next”).

      There is a postive reason why we should follow all the commandments – because that will make us happy because we will be doing what God wants and not looking to doing what we want.  Violating the commandments NEVER will make us happy.   

      The homosexual lifestyle, since it is intent on seeking one’s own happiness ends up in disillusionment; serving God always ends up in being truly happy which is what heaen’s all about.  So I would say this to my son: “Are you here to do God’s will or your own?  If the former, you will find happiness; if the latter, you will not.  Plain and simple, my son. Apply this to everything you do.”

      • Bob

        Thanks, Ed. This is spot on the secret to happiness. I’m going to use this in my next catechetical class.

    • Vishal Mehra

      “An active homosexual life most often results in shortened life span,
      prevalence of disease, drug and alcohol abuse, and relationships that
      are brief and emotionally hurtful, with little hope of fidelity, and a
      high occurrence of violent abuse.  The chances of a person committing
      suicide are also greatly increased”

      The activists will reply that all these problems could be mitigated by societal acceptance and safer sex practices.

      • pauljames87

        I have run into the exact problem that you mention when talking about these things. The fact that they persist in societies, such as the Netherlands which has long been accepting of LGBT persons and their choices, doesn’t faze them. It’s absolutely impossible to argue unless someone has some suggestions?

    • Sherry McMahon

      This article puts the right focus on what really makes a human being truly happy – as opposed to counterfeit “happy”. Heterosexuals also need to understand that God really does want us to be happy but when we make up our own rules, it just doesn’t work.

      There are two excellent resources on homosexuality. One is a booklet put out by the Catholic Truth Society (Ignatius Press).  If I remember correctly, it is written by a man who had been a gay activist. It is beautifully written and very helpful, especially in talking with family and friends who have same sex attraction.

      The other one is a booklet put out by the Catholic Medical Association. It can be ordered through their website at “cathmed.org”. It, too, is very well done.

      Happiness from “pleasure” can never begin to measure up to the true joy in living the way God shows us. The way is not easy but the rewards are immense and everlasting. We ought not keep that information from those we love.

    • Peter Freeman

      Not to miss the rhetorical forest for the tree, but these “What would you tell your son?” questions are bogus hypotheticals. Of course the answers begin with “sputtering,” because it is an almost impossible question to answer. What I would tell my son would most likely not start with a robotic recitation of the catechetical partyline (unless I thought that would be what my son most needed to hear). But what I would tell my son would first address who my son was and the context with which he made this revelation. I’d like to think that by the time my son felt he needed to inform me of his sexual appetites, I would have gotten to know him on a deep, personal level, and I would intuitively know the best way to respond. The “sputtering” most likely reflects less an awkwardness or embarrassment in expressing one’s beliefs than it expresses an attempt to improvise an audience analysis on a fictionalized version of someone very close to you. These questions transform what would be a more intuitive response into an over-rationalized shot-in-the-dark addressed not in private to one of my most intimate friends, but in public before a sea of overhearers. One almost feels like the most appropriate response to Piers Morgan would have been: “Private conversations in my house are none of your business. But this is what I would want my son to believe…”

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Esolen/1184164082 Tony Esolen

      I’d tell my son to calm down … and not to assume that what he feels right now is what he’ll always feel, or that what he feels is altogether unlike what other boys feel.  In other words, I’d tell him to slow down and not jump to any such interpretation.  Lots of teenage boys are attracted to anything that shows some flesh and is alive.  In other words, the conversation would have to be personal, as Peter says, and sensitive to the vagaries and confusions and fears of adolescence. 

    • Bob Moran

             Not Gay, Not Alone                           

      Same sex attraction is what I have got.
      Do no call me gay, because I am not.
      I do love all gays and I wish them well,
      But if I do what they do, I’ll be in Hell!    

      Gay is the enemy of all that’s good.
      Gay is against everything I should.     
      Gay is the friend of plenty that is bad.
      Gay is not gay; it’s very, very sad.

      Gay is wanting to do sex the wrong way,
      And doing it, when you should pray.
      Gay is when you do sex the wrong way,
      and then bragging that it’s more than okay.

      I say all this because I have been there.
      And I don’t want to go back, I swear!
      Jesus has found me, and he’s brought me home.
      Back to where I need never be alone.

      The Catholic Church is now where I live.
      I want to follow Jesus and learn to forgive
      all those who have set me on the wrong way,
      And to forgive myself for going gay.

      Having had boys, Mom wanted a female.
      And it wasn’t easy for me to be male.
      She told everyone what she really had wanted,
      And Dad just seemed completely daunted.

      But I was loved, and with Faith endowed.
      I pretty much grew up on a pink cloud.
      Until one May day when only thirteen
      I had gay sex and was in the gay scene.

      I knew it was wrong, but came to think
      it was love, with the help of lots to drink.
      So over the decades I sought out guys.
      And absorbed ideas that really were lies.

      Then I quit drinking and went back to Rome.
      I hoped the Church would guide me home.
      But what I got was permission to sin,
      So I stayed pretty much where I’d been.

      I tried a number of worldly cures,
      But found they were really only detours.
      It was finally only Mary above
      that helped me to know and feel God’s love.

      The love that gave me Courage to be chaste,
      So that my life would not go to waste.
      Courage that I might do His holy will
      and desire my disordered will to kill.

      A twelve step fellowship helps me not slip.
      I do not get much from Church leadership.
      Except from the courageous Courage priests
      who facilitate our chaste, group love feasts.   

      I pretty much go to Mass everyday.    
      And often I do the rosary pray.
      Jesus has found me, and he’s brought me home.
      Back to not gay and not ever alone

      • Christina

        Glad to see you seem to have found your way to the group “Courage”. My prayer is that some day my child too finds this group. meanwhile I pray for the day when every area has available Courage and for us parents EnCourage.

        Life isnt easy, but with Gods grace we can do his will.

    • Howard Kainz

      If this happened before 1973, when the American Psychiatric Assn. decided that homosexuality was no longer a disease, I would have tried to get psychiatric help for him.  After 1973, I might do some research to see if any thoughtful practicing Catholic psychiatrists are available. Homosexuality is a still a pathology which deserves our sympathy and is often treatable.

      • Sherry McMahon

        There is an outstanding Catholic psychiatrist in the New York area at the Westchester Medical Center.  His name is Dr. Richard E. Gallagher. 

      • Peter Freeman

        To be fair, though, a lot of attempts to treat or cure homosexuality before 1973 were pretty horrid affairs that did more harm than good. Consider what happened to Alan Turing, or the recent allegations about the Dutch castrations in Catholic institutions.

        • Ricdykstra1

          Perhaps it can’t be “cured” because it IS a natural state created by God!  Wouldn’t we be surprised if it were proven by science that people are BORN GAY!  If that day ever comes, the Church will have to eat its words!  If it is their Nature to be Gay, then they are what God wanted them to be!  Does God make mistakes?  Like straight people, they too have a choice to live the Gospel.  Granted, some of the things they do are sinful and against what Jesus taught, but some of the things straight people do are also sinful and disgusting!  AS someone said,” The TRUTH is often stranger than fiction!”  As far as I know no one has ever really succeeded in making a Gay man straight!

          • Thx11

            Researchers are presently of the opinion that pedophilia perhaps can’t be cured. 
            Did God “make them that way”? 
            Here is another fact for you, the researcher most responsible for removing homosexual orientation from the list of mental disorders stated after 30 more years of research that in fact in can be cured at least in some cases. 

    • Alecto

      Fine article, beautiful sentiment.  Thanks.  I know this was intended to rebut the homosexual lifestyle and gay marriage, but I think along with that message to the sexually confused experiencing same sex attractions, it should be sent out to those heterosexuals who believe that promiscuity is natural and healthy.  All sins against purity take us away from God.  Your criticisms of homosexuality could be applied with small language modification to fornicators and aldulterers as well.  For heterosexuals who cannot marry and remain faithful to husband or wife, celibacy is best is it not?  If bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, we ought not to defile them in any way. 

      I believe that is why many gays are angry at the Catholic church.  They feel that Catholics single out gays to the exclusion of adulterers and fornicators.  In the case of each of those sins, they can and do lead to far worse – abortion.  We ought to condemn all of these sins, all sins against purity, and foster love for the sinner as you so eloquently state.  Something strange is happening in our society with regard to these physical types of behaviors.  The more we focus on the body, on the goings on with bodies, the more we ignore the spiritual aspects of being human and the much deeper needs we have as spiritual beings than physical ones.  You can see how spiritually hungry and in need of love people are the more they worship the body. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Esolen/1184164082 Tony Esolen

      Alecto is quite right.  When we recover the full beauty of human sexuality, then questions regarding sodomy can hardly arise.  I’m reminded of what Chesterton said about the ”limitation” of the Christian husband to one woman.  He said that he couldn’t imagine what sense it could make to gripe about “only” one, when it was such an astonishing privilege and grace to be granted one woman to love at all.  If we could recover a full sense of the great gift of marriage, we wouldn’t feel the moral laws against fornication to be a limitation, but rather a common sense safeguard of something supremely good and holy.

      Also: a man or a boy who feels attracted to other males is often a deeply hurting soul.  He may feel that he is wholly unlike other boys or men, but that isn’t really so.  He’s desperate for male affirmation, and, from his point of view, here we come along and take from him his lifeline.  He’s mistaken about this, but we must never forget those needs; we have to offer to him something more than proscriptions.  That’s the mission of the apostolate Courage.

    • tj.nelson

      I’m not sure “Jesus wants gays to be happy” is the best title here.  It sounds a little too much like a prosperity gospel message.  In heaven we will all be happy, but on earth there is no guarantee for that – peace and joy, yes, even amidst suffering.  But happiness as most people understand it – again, there is no guarantee.  We need to be continually aware that there are many sad lives in this world – the widow who lost her husband, the orphan who lost his parents, the young man whose wife has left him, and so on.  At Lourdes Our Lady promised Bernadette, “I can’t promise you happiness in this life, but in the next.”

      So I would be careful what you promise people in the name of God.

    • Tom

      Everyone loves to speak for Jesus.  Do they like to listen to what Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Ghost did to Gays (otherwise known as Somites). Now I am a bit confused  – but Sodom and some other place (the starts with a G)  disintegrating in to ashes. So please answer me, are ashes and happiness identical. Is being burnt to dust and soot liken to being happy? 

    • schmenz

      I am trying to figure out which is more depressing, the article itself, or most of the responses to it from the readers.

      Firstly, we have an author who uses the word “gay” to describe the most unimaginable sexual perversions (could I please ask the author to use the correct words for this terrible sin?).  Then we have many responses, not one of which even mentions that what we are dealing with is a simple. if horrible, mortal sin.  If someone is giving in to homosexual temptations, in other words if someone is contemplating committing this evil act, then it is Confession, absolution and prayer that he needs, not a psychiatrist.  That anyone in this day and age, knowing what we know about these unfortunate people, would deny that unnatural vice is one of those offenses that “cries to Heaven for vengeance” is incredible.

      We have to help these people.  They will not be helped by being told such absurdities that they are “born that way” or that it is a natural thing, or other such nonsense.  That will not help them escape from this lifestyle, one that could very well bring them physical death (at the very least Hepatitus-B) and certain spiritual death.  Pray for them.  Help them.  But for the love of God don’t tell them they are “just fine” the way they are.  Those who confirm these people in this awful life will one day have to answer for this.

      • Bob

        Homosexual desires are a great burden and an incredible cross. And we all have desires that are crosses and burdens such as materialism, drug abuse, obsession, fornication, hatred, adultery, etc. the homosexual that picks up his/her cross and carries it everyday with the help of Christ is nothing less than a saint. The heterosexual that picks up the cross of lustful desires and fornication and carries that cross and takes those illicit desires to Christ for help is nothing less than a saint. If I was committing adultery and a homosexual tells me what I am doing is a lie and against God’s will, that homosexual is doing the Christian work of Charity. So is the heterosexual telling a homosexual that sodomy is a great sin, closing one off from the love of God. We are to help each other with our crosses to get us all to heaven, heterosexual or homosexual.

    • hombre111

      All I can do is point to several homosexual couples I know…some gay, some lesbian.  They are past the promiscuous lifestyle mentioned in the piece, as if that were the only choice homosesxuals make.  The men and women I have known have lived together for as many as thirty-five years, sharing deep love and companionship.   I helped two lesbians celebrate their twenty-fifth and even blessed their bed.   I think that is what the longing is all about–deep companionship.  Heterosexuals can be as promisuous as gays, with all the consequences.  But when couples of whatever persuasion come togethe and promise mutual fidelity, wonderful things happen.   For Pete’s sake, make an effort to know some really sound and faithful homosexual couples.  It will change your mind about things.

      • Peter Freeman

         I don’t think any rational Catholic would deny that homosexual couples can be monogamous or devoted to each other, or that they can’t love one another deeply. That’s not really the question for us. The question is the proper matter for a sacrament. There are women who would make great homilists, but the Church cannot ordain a female body. There are staple foods that are just as nourishing as bread and wine, but the Church cannot consecrate them. There are men and women who could sacrifice themselves for same-sex partners out of romantic love, but the Church cannot marry them. If it cannot marry them, then it can never encourage, promote, or condone physical intimacy between individuals of the same sex. Christ left us the template for our Sacraments, and our duty is to preserve and perpetuate those Sacraments as we received them. It doesn’t matter if our minds or hearts are changed: the Sacraments remain the same.

        • hombre111

          Mmm, maybe.  But I suspect that the situation will be different in about fifty years. 

          • Peter Freeman

            The situation might be different, but the Sacraments will still remain the same. The matter and form of the Sacraments do not change with context.

            • hombre111

              Matter and Form?   The richness of the sacramental experience crammed into the narrow categories of the pagan philospher Aristotle.   The splendor of the Eucharist’s remembering and celebration reduced to a priest’s handful of words over bread and wine.   But I abandoned Aristotle years ago and so the concept means little to me.  Like trying to define the unfolding variety and depth of life by using nothing but one word or one line definitions in a dictionary. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Esolen/1184164082 Tony Esolen

        On the contrary: the more you look into what homosexual men actually do — quite aside from the unnaturalness of sodomy — the more you see that the one sin is related to others.  I have been told by a reliable source, a homosexual man, that pornography among homosexual men is universal — not just common, or even very common, but an “ordinary” part of the life.  I’m told by another reliable source, an expert in infectious diseases, that what is euphemistically called anal intercourse is extraordinarily dangerous — AIDS is only one of the diseases one invites by abuse of the organ. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Esolen/1184164082 Tony Esolen

          AND: When homosexual men — like Michelangelo Signorile — inform us in no uncertain terms that their aim is to change utterly what we mean by “fidelity,” and when a “moderate” apologist like Andrew Sullivan admits that that is what we’ll have to do, I listen.  I credit them with being honest.  Homosexual behavior among men is a corruption of male friendship.  Once we understand that, we understand that standards we apply to men and women do not apply there.  For God’s sake — I don’t mean that as an interjection — find out something about the psychological / moral complexes that beset these people. 

          • Brian A. Cook

             Does Signorile represent every single solitary homosexual person?  Is every single solitary homosexual person part of some sinister satanic masonic conspiracy?

        • hombre111

          What some homosexual men actually do.   As I said, I tend to judge things by the decent homosexual couples I know, men and women.   And pornography is the great epidemic among heterosexuals as well, making it perhaps the most profitable part of the Internet. 

      • Bob

        All sin is a distortion of the Truth. Two men can have deep, life long, extremely close bonding heterosexual friendships. When that male to male friendship works toward leading each other to Christ, then there is a deep purity there, a truth, if you will, and men naturally seek out this brotherly bond. One man can love another man as a brother in Christ. But the distortion (or lie, if you will) happens when this natural male bonding is guided by a man’s fallen nature and tendency towards homosexuality that leads to the “distorted truth” of sodomy. But even the brotherly love that I described is not the same as the love of a man and a woman. Nature shows us the complimentary emotional bonding that only a man and a woman can have. This is undeniable. Two men in a relationship can never have the same complimentary emotional bonding as a man and a woman, because they are two men. When they try to mimic this male/female relationship, it is only a distortion, or lie.

        • hombre111

          Like I said, get to know some real homosexual couples.   You sound like someone arguing that a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich are unnatural because your theory tells you so. 

          • poetcomic1

             Long term same sex relationships in themselves are fine for SSA people. They almost invariably no longer have sex together but indulge in either paid sex, ‘open relationships’, and commonly mutual masturbation with pornography.  Your close friends will carefully hid this out of shame.  The exquisite tempura painter, George Tooker, became a Catholic late in life and he and his long time partner just dropped the compulsive-fantasist sex from their lives and struggled for celibacy. 

            • hombre111

              Just checked this out with a good friend who is gay and quite prominent in his community.  He said what you said is baloney.   He and his partner just celebrated their 35th.. How many heteros can say that? 

              • Bob

                Bottom line is sodomy is against nature. A man’s genitals were not meant to be used in such a disordered way. It is interesting how for thousands of years of Judeo-Christian teaching, sodomy has always been called a grave and mortal sin. In 2012, our morally relativistic society throws that teaching out the window and says anything goes. A lot of gay people I know are really nice people. But If they have been consciously informed that sodomy is a mortal sin and they choose by free will to commit that sin regardless, God have mercy on them. Like all of us who know something is sinful, but we choose to do it anyway. Our self-centered pride and desires have pushed us away from the will and love of God.

          • Bob

            I do know some real homosexual couples. One couple had been together for ten years and all outward signs seemed to be as you described, a committed couple. But the one partner died and the surviving partner three weeks after the funeral was living with another gay man. Doesn’t seem like a very long grieving period for someone so committed to a former relationship, does it? I think the main attraction between gay men is physical/sexual, or lust, not any type of emotional bond. Two men are not naturally complimentary in the sexual act as a man and women are. Neither do two men bond with the same emotional bonding of love and complimentariness as a man and women. This is the order of nature. Anything against this order (man with man) is therefore disordered. If someone justifies man with man, then why not man with son? Or mother with son? Slippery slope……

            • hombre111

              Hmm.  Interesting.   I think we all fall into the a trap that says, “Everybody must think the way I do. All men must think the same because they are men.”  But there have been studies that show that gay men do not have the same brain structure as straight men.  The same studies show that lesbians think much more like straight men.  

              I guess what I am saying is this:  More and more we come to understand that homosexuality is not so much a choice as it is something locked in the genes and in the brain.   As one gay man told me years ago, “Do you think I would honestly choose to be a social outcast?   This is the way I have been as long as I can remember.”

              If we do all have one thing in common, it is our desire for intimacy and closeness.   This is one of the particular agonies of the celibate priesthood, whose similar desires never go away and who struggle to learn how to be alone but not  lonely.   But this is a charism, a call from God.  I doubt if we can say that a homosexual is similarly called.   As the article said, Jesus wants homosexuals to be happy, which means happy like everybody else.                                                                                                                                                                                                       l  

              • Bob

                “homosexuality is not so much a choice as it is something that is locked in the genes and brain.”

                The same can be said for heterosexual men, that they have the great desire and attraction to have sex with and spread their seed amongst 1000 women. This is not a choice, but can also be said that it is something genetically inherent. But should the heterosexual man have sex with 1000 women? Are there consequences to this, emotional betrayal to the woman, for example? Morally is this wrong? Or should this strong “genetic” desire be controlled? Should the desire of homosexuals to have sex with their same gender something to be controlled because it is disordered against nature and it’s laws?

                • Bob

                  …….what about the man that feels he is genetically wired towards beastiality or necrophilia? Is it good for them and morally permissible? The question for the homosexual actively living the gay lifestyle is are there moral truths or is all morality relative to one’s feelings, desires. Is sodomy immoral absolutely, or does it depend on an individual’s feelings, wants, and desires?

                • hombre111

                  If nature made a homosexual that way, why is the desire for intimacy with another homosexual against nature and its laws? 

                  • AA Nick

                    C’mon hombre. I’m a recovering alcoholic. God did, indeed make me this way. If, however, I make the decision to pick up another drink, all bets are off. And, it’s my fault.

                    We are fallen creatures. Eden was a long, long time ago, and utopian plans to immanetize the eschateon have and will always fail. We have Jesus, the prophets, and the Church, as well as deep insights from Natural Law.

                    And, the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”

                    I do agree with a number of posters that the perversion of heterosexual marriage and relationships places those defending marriage in a more challenging spot. Pope Paul IV in Humanae Vitae nailed this one. Just as the sex-abuse crisis took some of the wind out of us, the degradation of heterosexual love makes it all that much tougher to address the emotional aspects of homosexuality.

                  • Bob

                    False syllogism. Who says that homosexuality is genetic? Many studies can show that it is caused by behavior and environmental external factors. Once again, a pedophile or necrophiliac can claim nature made them that way, so how then can their behavior be against nature and its laws? If the desire towards pedophilia is genetic ( and yes, NAMBA does claim this), then the actions of a pedophile are justified according to your reasoning.

                    • hombre111

                      Bad reasoning.   More and more scientists are saying homosesxuality is generic.  Brain studies have shown marked difference between the brains of gay men and straight men…marked differences betwen the brains of gay women and straight women…and traits in common between gay men and straight women, and gay women and straight men. 

                      As for pedophilia?    A claim by NAMBA means little.    Over the last year or so, a number of people have gotten in trouble for pedophilia.  Most of them were straight men with female children or teenagers. 

                • Vishal Mehra

                  “they have the great desire and attraction to have sex with and spread their seed amongst 1000 women.  ”

                  A great falsehood.

                  There is no, absolutely no reason to believe in this statement.

          • Max

            There is no such thing as a “real homosexual couple” in the same way there is no such thing as “gay marriage”. Two men sodomizing one another is no more a “real couple” than 2 or more people engaging in any other sexual perversion. 

            2 of the reasons that St. Albert the Great gave for why homosexual acts are so detestable are:-They are disgustingly foul.-Those who become addicted to them are seldom freed from that vice.To “bless” what God calls an abomination really would be throwing pearls before swine if you actually had to power to bless anything.

      • Paul

        You can make it sound as flowery as you can but it doesn’t change the fundamental argument. It’s either you’re that ignorant about the fundamental truth about God’s plan for man/woman or you’re just an activist for the disillusioned rainbow coalition. I have friends with homosexual tendencies who are against the whole gay & lesbian agenda because it’s based on a big “LIE”. It the “sinful” lifestyle that we’re against, not the person. An that goes for both heterosexuals as well as homosexuals.

        • hombre111

          It’s the sinful lifestyle that we’re against, not the person.  Sounds like you really do not consider gays a person.  A complicated, multi-layered reality, the person.  Takes a lot more thought than the average anti-gay is pepared to give. 

          • silver34

            Those who experience homosexual attraction are people, but they are not “a people”. 

      • J G

         hombre, I have never met a happy homosexual, ever. Some do a good job of pretending, but once you pierce the facade you discover the truth. Sin never makes us happy. This is why homosexuals push so hard for “acceptance” and persecute anyone who dares to disagree with their lifestyle, especially the Church. They imagine that if only everyone agrees with homosexuality that somehow they will be happy. It is desperation and it won’t work. I always recommend the group Courage.

        • hombre111

          Most of the homosexuals I know are priests.   They keep their celibate vow, as far as I know, and seem as happy as their fellow priests.  But I also know some very contented homosexual couples.   I think it is hard to be homosexual Catholics, because the church they love does not accept them.  We all want acceptance.   By the way, when did you “choose” to be a heterosexual?   Just were?   That is what most homosexuals would say. 

          • J G

             Notice they “keep their celibate vow.” In other words they are faithful and avoid sin. The Church accepts sinners, but does not accept sin. Some men claim they are born rapists, does that mean we accept rape? Original sin manifests itself in many ways. No one forces homosexuals to commit homosexual acts. In fact it is better to describe them as afflicted with same sex attraction, so that they do not primarily identify themselves with their sexual desires. Those afflicted with ssa can be happy, but not if they engage in sinful behavior.

    • Brian A. Cook

      May I offer something?  In regards to “data,” you may want to consider double-checking and making sure that it is actual data, not junk science.  The likes of the Southern Poverty Law Center have exposed junk science.  

    • Paul

      “My son, who told you that you’re gay? Your mom and I don’t think so. Your brothers and sisters don’t think so. Grandpa and grandma don’t think so. In fact, everybody who loves you don’t think so. But most importantly, God doesn’t think so. Who ever told you that is lying big time…”

    • THX1

      “Jesus wants gays to be happy”? He wants happy people to be happy? 
      Yes, I know the word has been twisted into an abomination and taken to mean something it shouldn’t, but as with the term “gay marriage” (and other Orwellian NewSpeak that society seems tragically all to comfortable  in accepting) there simply is no good reason not to challenge it.  Some 2-4% of society experience, to various degrees, same-sex romantic and homo-erotic attraction. Those who experience homosexual attraction are people, of course, but they are not “a people”. It is not an ontology. Kirk Cameron could have simply responded that if his son told him he “was gay”, he would have inquired as to what he was happy about, when clarified by his son that what he meant was he was experiencing homo-erotic attraction, could have then replied, “Well Piers, I suppose, as with absolutely any and every problem or problems any of my children bring to my attention, I would start by trying to help them find a way to address and overcome that problem as best I could and leave the rest in God’s hands as I always do.”As a fellow priest put it, all  are created by God heterosexual, but some experience for reasons unknown same-sex attraction, for some it is very strong, and for others not. Some decide to act on those desires, while others choose not to. Homo-erotic desire is no more the other side of the coin or the opposite of heterosexuality than any other appetitive disorder. However long the list is of intrinsically disordered sexual desires, (and it certainly seems to be increasing in these very strange days) homosexual attraction is on that list. 

    • THX1

      By definition, sexual abuse of a teenager is pederasty, not pedophilia. Anywhere from 80-90% of the cases of sexual abuse by priests were cases of pederasty. And the psychologist who worked with these people at the facility in Maryland where they were sent by the Bishops has said that in every single case, the person who had sexually abuse a teenage boy, also admitted to engaging in homosexual acts with an adult.

    • THX1

      The Church does not accept anyone’s sin. The Church was founded to lead people away from sin. It seems very odd that a hospital would “not accept” sick people. When one is admitted to a hospital it usually means that they are sick, know they are sick, and want to get better. Those who suffer homosexual desire are as welcome by the Church as anyone else. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/6RH2HD777JV5WAS56AIU4ZPZSA Mitch

      Mr. Fickett,

      If your interpretation of the will of God via your personal faith and understanding of scripture leads you to believe that homosexuality is an “inherenty disordered” condition, then that’s not a belief I’m going to try to disabuse you of via logical argument. But your attempt to buttress your claims with references to social science and clinical study is deeply flawed. I’m not part of the ‘homosexual community’ (if being married and heterosexual is a disqualifier) and I don’t believe I’m screaming, but I’m going to take issue with your presentation of the ‘data’.

      Do you permit the possibility that the fact that people who identify as gay are often met with some combination of hostility, disavowal, argument and silence from society (some of which you humanely bemoan here) and discrimination (in the plainest sense) from civic institutions might have some connection to all these characteristics of homosexual life you lament? Is it a wonder that when civic marriage is denied to homosexuals, the length and quality of their relationships should suffer? That a child who feels a core part of his/her identity is responsible for rejection from their parents and community and peers might contemplate harming themselves or even ending their lives? That people who were told they couldn’t fully reconcile their entire self with the demands of society might develop and participate in alternative (occasionally destructive) forms of behaviour and interaction, sometimes pointedly opposed to the values they associated with the exclusionary ‘mainstream’? I’ll grant you the fact that certain male homosexual sex acts carry a greater risk of some kinds of disease, but any number of other activities bring with them increased risks of bodily harm (many heterosexual sex acts, in fact many physical sports, would qualify), and yet these aren’t condemned as inherently wrong. You make these claims as if ‘gayness’ exists in a vaccum, a private ‘Pandora’s Box’ of ills and misery that takes its toll on the individual regardless of their internal or external condition.

      What you believe as a matter of faith is a separate issue, but until we really do largely eliminate societal prejudice (an extremely difficult task in itself), there’s no way to factually evaluate your claim that, even in its absence, gayness contains only misery and disorder.

      • Thx1

        The reason people who identify as “gay” i.e. experiences latent homo-erotic and romanic desire for their own gender are often met with disapproval from people in society is simply because the condition of desiring sexual gratification or romantic pursuit of the same gender, produces a feeling of revulsion in people because it is in fact in itself revolting. Basic phenomenology. People are naturally repulsed by what is naturally repulsive.