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  • How the Catholic Left Is Boxed in by Abortion

    by William A. Donohue

     

    They just can’t shake it. It’s a noose. It’s destroying their credibility. It’s the abortion albatross.

    Try as they may to find matters that rival the life issues, the Catholic Left continues to come up empty. When the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops voted overwhelmingly on June 13 to affirm the Church’s teaching on embryonic stem cell research, the Catholic Left could not summon the courage to congratulate them.
    Of the four Catholic Left groups that have been making some noise this presidential season — Catholics United, Catholic Democrats, NETWORK, and Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good — only the latter even mentioned the bishops’ vote. And the best it could do was to reprint a ChicagoTribune story on it.
    Interestingly, Catholics in Alliance posted another story the same day it ran the AP piece, only this one was from the Washington Post titled “‘Pro-Life’ Drugstores Market Beliefs.” It was a mostly critical column on the alleged dangers of allowing a pro-life drugstore to open in Chantilly, Virginia; the operators refuse to sell condoms, birth-control pills, or the Plan B emergency contraceptive/abortifacient. Given that Catholics in Alliance has not exactly been vocal in supporting the Church’s teachings on sexuality, it makes one wonder why it chose to run this particular piece. More important, it makes one wonder which side it takes.
    There is every reason to question Catholics in Alliance on matters like these. After all, this is the same group that two years ago issued a voter’s guide on the mid-term elections that continuously referred to pro-life candidates as “pro-life” candidates, scare quotes included. Nowhere in its 12-page booklet did it condemn partial-birth abortion — but it did take the time to justify voting for pro-abortion candidates. The following year, it took out a full-page ad in the Washington Times explicitly condemning me, and a few others, for fighting the “War on Christmas.”
    Catholics United is another group on the Catholic Left seeking to get some traction in its effort to relativize the life issues. So far it has been an abysmal failure. Even pro-abortion leftists who are not Catholic know that abortion is not just one of many public policy issues for the Catholic Church, and that is why attempts to maintain otherwise run the risk of being laughed at in public.
    Every now and then we will be contacted by Catholics United to see if we will oppose a conservative-leaning individual or group that has done something anti-Catholic. We do. For example, we’ve gone after some Minutemen operations that have gotten out of line with Catholic Latinos. But when we ask Catholics United to join with us in opposing the prohibition of crèches in schools, they always seem to come up short.
    When the Catholic League took on Pastor John Hagee, Catholics United was initially thrown off-base. Had the group been more familiar with the Catholic League — we criticized George W. Bush when he went to Bob Jones University in 2000, and we led the fight against Republican evangelicals who fought the appointment of the first Catholic priest as House chaplain — then it would not have been surprised. It was revealing that when we accepted Pastor Hagee’s apology, Catholics United went bonkers.
    NETWORK has been around the longest of these organizations. It has a great deal of interest in social justice issues, and none whatsoever in abortion or any other life issue. Indeed, it is so radical and unrepresentative of American Catholics that it has butted heads several times with the Church hierarchy here at home, as well as in Rome.
    In 1983, NETWORK took the side of a dissident nun who refused to denounce publicly funded abortions. When the Sisters of Mercy nun refused, the Vatican stepped in to force her to leave her order. NETWORK responded with boilerplate, saying it “deeply regrets the authoritarian exercise of administrative power on the part of Vatican officials.”
    The very next year, Sr. Marjorie Tuite, a founder of NETWORK, was herself threatened with expulsion from her order, the Dominican Sisters of St. Mary in Columbus, Ohio, when she signed a New York Times ad calling on the Catholic Church to reconsider its opposition to abortion. When she died two years later, she was remembered for accusing the Church of treating women unjustly for opposing abortion.
    To this day, NETWORK says the reason it does not address the issue of abortion is because other Catholic groups already do that. Yet there is no shortage of dissident Catholic groups that tackle the very same issues it supports — e.g., higher taxes — but this hasn’t stopped it from operating. More important, as already shown, NETWORK is not neutral on abortion.
    The late Rev. Robert Drinan, himself a champion of Bill Clinton’s veto of a partial-birth abortion bill, actually congratulated NETWORK’s nuns for not “scolding” pro-abortion congressmen when they met with them in the 1970s. Moreover, Father Drinan boasted that a non-Catholic member of Congress received no praise from the group for his pro-life votes, though he was chastised for not agreeing with them on their issues. In short, NETWORK has more in common with pro-abortion groups than it does pro-life groups.
    Catholic Democrats is now conducting a national search in quest of finding conservatives who are in the tank for Sen. Barack Obama. So far it has found two. No matter — what really exercises this group is any criticism of their hero. That is why it blew a gasket when the Catholic League took on Obama’s Catholic National Advisory Council. We pointed out that most of the politicians who belong to this group had a 100 percent NARAL record. This did not sit well with Catholic Democrats.
    When we subsequently questioned whether the Catholic Advisory group still exits — there is no longer any mention of it on the Obama campaign Web site — Catholic Democrats tried to get cute by saying we were “having trouble navigating the website” of their hero. When we asked them to provide evidence that we were wrong, and that the Catholic Advisory group was still on the campaign site, it could not do so. But instead of admitting this, it raised non-issues like “why the CL [Catholic League] wants to pick this particular fight with Senator Obama’s Catholic Outreach people.”
    To top things off, Catholic Democrats is proudly running a most embarrassing article by a Jesuit priest, Rev. Raymond Schroth. Father Schroth loves the fact that Muslim terrorists held at Gitmo will now be afforded ACLU lawyers. What bothers him is that the Catholics on the high court dissented from the majority opinion. He asks, “Is there any trace of their religious upbringing in their judicial decisions?” Indeed, he concludes by writing, “Thank God for non-Catholics John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Stephen G. Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.”
    Father Schroth’s argument is fatally flawed. While legislators can rightfully allow their religiously informed conscience to affect their votes, judges cannot. Lawmakers may vote for what they believe is in the best interest of the nation, and they can be removed by the voters. Judges have a different charge: They must interpret the law as it was intended to be applied by those who wrote it. In other words, they must put aside their religiously informed conscience in rendering a judgment. Moreover, they cannot be removed by the voters.
    All of these examples come down to one thing: In 2004, the Democrats lost because they got their clocks cleaned by values voters. Now Catholic Democrats are determined not to let this happen again — hence the sudden interest in “God talk” and attempts to neutralize the abortion issue. But at the end of the day, few will be fooled by such shenanigans. Even those who try to establish parity between the moral significance of global warming and killing children in the womb have to know that they’re engaged in a fool’s exercise.
    Just recently, John Kelly, Catholic outreach liaison for the Democratic National Committee, gave away the store when he wrote, “The Democratic Party realizes that life does not end at birth and must be supported and nurtured through a society built on the common good.”
    How refreshing. If the Democrats are willing to admit that life doesn’t end at birth, then they are conceding that it begins some time before birth. And whether that point is at conception, or at quickening, or at some other time before birth, it makes it morally indefensible to justify some, if not all, abortions.
    It is for reasons like this that abortion will continue to haunt the Catholic Left. They’ve boxed themselves in, and there’s no way out.
     

    The views expressed by the authors and editorial staff are not necessarily the views of
    Sophia Institute, Holy Spirit College, or the Thomas More College of Liberal Arts.

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    • Joe H

      Mr. Donohue speaks the truth here.

      I am deeply sympathetic to left-leaning Catholic organizations. I believe they are right to call attention to the social and economic issues that the more conservative wing of the Church may ocassionally neglect, or even worse, support policies that are clearly contrary to Catholic social teaching.

      But this support for/silence on the abortion issue is inexcusable. There is no pragmatic basis for it; it is obvious that if the abortion issue were truly taken off the table by the apperance of a pro-life (and hopefully pro-gun) Democrat, the Republicans would be beaten in any contest.

      And there is certainly no moral basis for it, since a society that is hostile towards its most innocent and vulnerable members couldn’t possibly have a greater or more pressing problem.

      There is no reason why the defense of innocent life cannot be upheld while making the case for social justice at the same time. It sickens me that the Catholics who usually understand the real depth of the social and economic crisis fail to struggle against the culture of death and make excuses for it. It is an embarassing moral and intellectual failure that has serious political repercussions – in refusing to defend the unborn, these Catholics discredit themselves on every other issue. I don’t blame the centrist or conservative Catholic who is repulsed by the entire left-Catholic agenda on the basis of this “one issue.”

    • Joe H

      Mr. Donohue speaks the truth here.

      I am deeply sympathetic to left-leaning Catholic organizations. I believe they are right to call attention to the social and economic issues that the more conservative wing of the Church may ocassionally neglect, or even worse, support policies that are clearly contrary to Catholic social teaching.

      But this support for/silence on the abortion issue is inexcusable. There is no pragmatic basis for it; it is obvious that if the abortion issue were truly taken off the table by the apperance of a pro-life (and hopefully pro-gun) Democrat, the Republicans would be beaten in any contest.

      And there is certainly no moral basis for it, since a society that is hostile towards its most innocent and vulnerable members couldn’t possibly have a greater or more pressing problem.

      There is no reason why the defense of innocent life cannot be upheld while making the case for social justice at the same time. It sickens me that the Catholics who usually understand the real depth of the social and economic crisis fail to struggle against the culture of death and make excuses for it. It is an embarassing moral and intellectual failure that has serious political repercussions – in refusing to defend the unborn, these Catholics discredit themselves on every other issue. I don’t blame the centrist or conservative Catholic who is repulsed by the entire left-Catholic agenda on the basis of this “one issue.”

    • Jeannine

      Great comment, Joe H! You are so right about the abortion issue!

      I disagree with you about the means for achieving social justice. High taxes, big government programs, and income redistribution schemes aren’t the only ways to alleviate poverty. Catholics are free to believe that there are other ways to exercise the preferential option for the poor.

      Catholics aren’t free, though, to promote abortion and to remain Catholics in good standing.

      I, too, sometimes wonder why people who claim to defend the rights of the oppressed also defend abortion “rights.”

      Perhaps this stance relates to other aspects of progressive ideology which have to do with family life. For example, social justice in the Catholic view includes the idea that children have a right to have a mother and a father, thus ruling out artificial insemination, IVF, cloning, and gay marriage. Catholic social teaching emphasizes the importance of marriage and views the family as the basis of society. I don’t think that I have to spell out the many ways that these Catholic principles are also under attack today.

    • Bridget

      The strength of the family is the bullwark against a decaying society. Liberal Catholic Democrats push social agendas that are generally anti-family under the label of “social justice”. BUT, FIRST and foremost, isn’t “social justice” allowing defenseless babies the right to live? Slicing & dicing embroyos in the “hope” of medical cures is unethical by most standards. Can we destroy a baby in order to let someone living have a more comfortable life? Oops, I forgot, big government programs advocated by these Democrats is the answer to all family problems. Very clever of them to put it under the Catholic “Social Justice” document. Don’t be fooled by them?

    • Deal Hudson

      These groups, for some reason, think they can convince people they do not support Obama and the Democratic Party. It’s one thing to follow the rules of a non-profit and not endorse a candidate institutionally, but another to pretend you don’t have preference, which they all do. Their existence is dedicated to the election of Obama, clear and simple. For them to deny it, is silly and unnecessary. As I have said before, there is no shame in supporting a candidate, the shame comes in pretending to be neutral when you are not. Oh, and I forgot the shame of pretending to be against abortion and gay marriage when you are really not, that too will be part of the smoke of this election cycle.

    • Joe H

      Jeannine,

      I’m glad you found my post agreeable, but I didn’t say anything about “high taxes, big government programs, and income redistribution schemes.”

      I did say I sympathized with left-leaning Catholics because of the attention they bring to the problems… the solutions are indeed another matter.

      Following what I believe to be the approach of Catholic social teaching, I reject individualism and market absolutism as well as statism and excessive economic regulation. These ideologies, while seemingly opposites, actually feed off of one another. Statism thrives when communities degenerate and individuals become increasingly self-interested at the expense of society. Unfortunately these are the dominant ideologies in America today, and the fact that alternatives to both are even possible is often lost.

      I favor the regeneration of communities as economic as well as spiritual units. If the word socialism must be associated with “big government”, then call me a communitarian. Individuals must subordinate themselves to community; and communities must have freedom from state coercion.

      As I have always thought an ideal Catholic position ought to be, I am neither “right” nor “left”, “liberal” nor “conservative” in the common meaning of the words. I try to take the position I think best satisfies the common good, retains human dignity, and contributes to the culture of life.

    • Robert Mosby

      The basis of progressive ideology is rejection of the foundational notion of truth. Soi disant progressives tend to prefer power improvisations as a means to their ends, ends reflecting preferences often at odds with doctrine. So the idea that there is a full content to Faith that is actually true and is sometimes at oddds with their preferences is rather an inconvenience to improvisation than a blessing of life.

    • Ann

      I disagree totally about the individual having to subordinate him or herself to the community.

      God loves us as INDIVIDUALS who become PART OF HIS BODY THE CHURCH.

      The individual is called as an individual! “There are many parts but one body”

      Each part must be their own individual valuable self or the Body of Christ suffers.

      Conversion is about the INDIVIDUAL. One must reform oneself, entering into a right relationship on a personal level–and by so doing, one becomes more Christlike and THIS is what will rejuvenate a community.

      Community is not a living being. Individuals are living beings.

      The individual is not subordinate to a community.

    • Joe H

      Ann,

      The church IS a community – a spiritual community, and to count yourself a member of it is to subordinate yourself to it at the same time. The Church hierarchy has made clear that you can’t, for instance, politically support abortion and remain a part of the Catholic community. If you aren’t going to adhere to Catholic values, you don’t belong in the Catholic community.

      This whole notion of the individual relationship with God, sans community, is just Protestantism. You might be a Protestant – I don’t know. For me, the Catholic tradition going back to the very first Christians has clearly been a communal tradition.

      To be subordinate isn’t to cease to exist. Libertarian hyperbole would be cute if it weren’t so demented. And membership in the Catholic Church, and ideally any community, is 100% voluntary. Meaning, if you don’t like it, you’re free to leave. But if you choose to stay, you’re going to have to live by certain rules and participate in certain activities. That means you subordinate yourself.

    • Joe H

      What about everything else I said?

    • JC

      I think this is getting off the topic of this article and back to the topic of Joe’s own column a few days ago (which I largely agreed with). However, I would like to interject that, ultimately, Ann is right. We got to God as individuals. St. John of the Cross teaches that both vita activa and vita contempliva are merely means to a contemplative union with God–and, once one gets there, the rest is irrelevant. Bl. Teresa of Calcutta said the same thing: “In the end, it’s between you and God.” That is not Protestantism.

      What about the ancient hermits? St. Jerome famously condemned one of his colleagues for leaving the hermetic life for an episcopal seat.

      The main difference between Libertarianism and Subsidiarity is the emphasis on the individual *as such*. IN Catholic teaching, society is a collection of *families*, not individuals. Government exists to let the family do its job.

      That said, and getting back to Dr. Donohue’s point, that is why “family values” are fundamental, and _Mater et Magistra_ teaches that the fundamental assault on the economy and the family alike is contraception.

      I’m sure if you polled all the people Dr. Donohue’s writing about, they may *claim* to some extent to be “pro-life” on abortion, but they’re probably all very much supporters of artificial contraception.

    • Tim Shipe

      Bill,

      We need to engage more on what you say about judges :

      “Judges have a different charge: They must interpret the law as it was intended to be applied by those who wrote it. In other words, they must put aside their religiously informed conscience in rendering a judgment.”

      This runs contrary to my reading of our social doctrine- no one’s job is above the Natural Law- particularly not a Judge! What you propose here is another form of legal positivism. I’m not attacking you I’m challenging your position on this as an orthodox Catholic myself- you can check out my credentials at timshipe.com- I am one of those rare breed pro-life Democrats- entirely consistent with the Magisterium and pretty much right in line with the USCCB since I find that the U.S. Bishops and the Holy See are the best source for expert opinion on how to apply the Church’s entire social doctrine into meaningful political outcomes in many varied circumstances.

      My recommendation for you is to check the “Analytical Index” at the end of the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church- look under “Natural Law” and you will find all manner of references like this found in #142 -

      “.. It [Natural Law] lays the indispensable moral foundation for building the human community and for establishing the civil law that draws its consequences of a concrete and contingent nature from the principles of the natural law.”

      As good as the original Constitution framers were they couldn’t have foreseen everything coming down the pike, and they were imperfectly inspired, and the democratic process is also similarly good but flawed- recall the Jesus was condemned as the consequence of Pontius Pilate’s legal positivism and the temporary will of a majority of Jesus’ own people. The so-called Catholic Left and Catholic Right need to read Professor Rice’s book on the Natural Law.

      When I hear Justices Thomas and Scalia proudly assert how their CAtholicism makes absolutely non impact on their 9-5 work on the Supreme Court- I shudder- certainly there are times and there are cases where the Natural Law will have to come into play- and if one shirks their duty to God’s Eternal Laws for the sake of holding onto their temporal station or employment- then they have gained the world but lost their soul. Many such souls I fear are being lost today Left and Right- Catholics who should know better- if Catholicism is just a warm fuzzy feeling at the end of the day with no real relevance to one’s work as a political or judicial leader, then why bother- just be a nice guy.

    • Tim Shipe

      For me, the Catholic Left is far off from where they should be on Life and Family issues- but the Catholic Right should start taking the plank from their own eye- instead it seems both sides are too busy crying foul and throwing down insults.

      If you aren’t going to deal openly with the papal encyclicals, the Compendium of the Social Doctrine commissioned by Pope John Paul II, with the U.S. Bishops’ speaking as a unified body, and the state Catholic conferences who typically employ fulltime experts on Catholic social teachings- then why go on Catholic blogs claiming to represent the CAtholic truths for the general public and to all the “little ones” who are attempting to discover the Truth. I am not going to be right all the time- but I know that I am going to all the right sources of official teachings within my Church to try to form my conscience and political vision- are you?

    • Guillermo Bustamante

      Mr. Donohue:

      Many times I insisted in these pages that the use of the simpleton labels Right & Left, is grossly misleading, and not a matter of semantics.

      The whole body of Vatican Encyclicals on Social Justice & Human Rights can be branded as lefty, or with fashionable terms like progressive, liberal, humanitarian, etc.

      The point is not creating unnecessary divisive banners, but to unite all Christian and Non-Christian forces behind the Pro-Life flag, EMBEDDED IN THE MORAL MAJORITY.

      I agree wholeheartedly with your positions, and guarantee you that if instead of Left, you utilize the expression Pro-Abortion, you will get across the divisive lines.

      More to the point, would be accurate to name the splinter groups you named as Protestantizers, and mockers of the Rock-Successor of Peter teachings.

      Just pay attention into what the Vatican says on this subject, and avoid deadly divisions: our enemies gain ground, gratis,if we do so.

      Cordially

    • Guillermo Bustamante

      Instead of: gratis, if we do so, I meant:
      gratis, if we do splinter ourselves in such simpleton way.

    • Todd

      There is a similar approach in many believers to find in Catholicism what aligns with their own beliefs and makes them comfortable. Sometimes such finds assist them in condemning others.

      Suffice it to say that no single human being or group of people is morally perfect when sorting out the clutter of one’s beliefs and choices. Corollary: every Catholic is a cafeteria Catholic, so to speak.

      That’s not a bad thing, necessarily. It just reflects the human condition.

      As for this piece, I think Mr Donohue is concerned, as a Republican who happens to be Catholic, with Democrats who happen to be Catholic. Many pro-lifers identify politically first, and by religion next. Or later.

      Again, not a bad thing, necessarily. It’s part of the landscape of humanity.

      The advantage to being a Catholic first is that one’s first priorities are in order. We hold to the tradition of the Church, and we wrestle with parts of it that seem difficult, inconceivable, or personally troubling. In politics, that would be condemned as flip-floppy or soft.

      Catholic political conservatives may find themselves in a tighter box at times than liberals. They’ve identified with a legacy of war, torture, and mismanagement that has drawn the ire of a lot of Americans. It might be one thing if abortions were down ninety, fifty, or even twenty percent under the W administration. But if abortion is your only issue, I have to ask why are you standing up for corruption and incompetence when you have so little to show for it?

    • Colin

      There is a good discussion going on here, especially in Todd and Tim’s comments.

      Certainly, as Catholics, we are called to reject out of hand intrinsic evils such as abortion. We are also called to support a preferential option for the poor, eliminate racism, remain in solidarity with immigrants, and to work for peace and justice around the world. As the US Conference of Catholic Bishops writes:

      “A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter

    • Kathy

      Colin,

      Obama says a lot. I think his actions in Illinois speak much more loudly than his words. His blockage of the born alive baby act speaks volumes.

    • JC

      It’s funny. People condemn the use of “simpleton” “labels” like “Right” and “Left” and then assume that someone who doesn’t like the Democrats must automatically endorse the Bush Regime.

      I have only voted Republican in the general election once: 2004, because the thought of Kerry as president was too disgusting, there was no third party candidate, and Bush made a lot of promises in 2004 regarding things he’d do with a Republican Congress (which he did not, ultimately, do).

      I have always viewed Bush as a pro-life fraud. The Republicans could have done a lot of stuff in 2004-2006 to advance conservative principles, and all they did was expand Big Government and promote a questionable and unpopular war.

      I voted for Keyes in the 1996 and 2000 primaries. I voted for Buchanan in the 2000 election.

      Catholic social teaching says a lot of things. What it does *not* say is that we have an obligation to vote for the “major party” candidate. Quite the contrary, _Evangelium VItae_ says to vote for the candidate who is most pro-life, even if that candidate is unpopular.

    • Tim Shipe

      I have attempted to engage some CAtholic thought on what I consider to be some critical flaws in the Republican/Conservative approach to pro-life politics/policies. It seems like Bill et al are very comfortable going after that part of the Catholic Left that is ambiguous or hostile to outlawing abortion- that is fine with me- I’m a Democrat but I believe in the both/and approach- no law of the land should allow for innocent human lives to be intentionally harmed/killed. But I also look at all the root causes- and try to find ways to address the “why” of abortion choices. I reject the promotion of contraceptives, and I reject the relativizing of Marriage. I am looking at economic incentives, safety nets, regulation of certain advertisements that unduly influence the behavior of young people- e.g. alcohol ads for sporting events- increasing binge drinking leading to unwanted pregnancies etc..

      My targeting of Republicans is on their rejection of Natural Law reasoning at the judicial level- they have abandoned Natural Law for “Originalist” interpretion theory- as such they will not definitively rule on abortion- only leave it to individual state decisions- and that qualifies the Republicans as the pro-life party? If this was slavery would this settle it?

      And what about creating and destroying human embryos? Republicans are not going after Fertility Clinics or private institutions- why not?

    • Saralee Wisner

      Colin,

      Not all the issues mentioned in your post are morally equivalent. Without protecting the right to life from conception to the grave, social justice is meaningless, politically-expedient talk. As to Obama’s adoption initiatives, one wonders about these as well. John & Cindy McCain have already put that into action by adopting a little girl from overseas.

      As to vigorous sex education,it is well-known to those who pay attention both to research, as well as to what is going on in the culture, that this has never worked–it has only served to encourage promiscuity, especially among the more-vulnerable young. The consequences for our society have been devastating.

      If Obama cares so much about the plight of poor, why has he given so little of his own money to works of charity? He favors all kinds of social programs, but like most liberals, he wants the taxpayer to fund them. There’s no chance that this “social justice” crowd is going to dig deep into their own pockets to help those less fortunate than they are!

      The higher taxes that Obama advocates for wealthy individuals & corporations will ultimately hurt both the middle class and the poor. Corporations deal with it by eliminating jobs–not the big CEO’s–but the “little” guy or gal down the line. Retailers deal with it by raising prices on goods & services. And small businesses deal with it by going out of business. In the end, everybody loses. How is this supposed to help the economy, or promote social justice?

      As to racism, it is difficult to understand how radical, black-liberation theology encourages understanding & respect among the races. This is the ideology–which has nothing in common with Christianity, Catholic or Protestant–that is being promoted by Obama’s radical associates. He may have left that church, but the question still remains–why did he stay in it for 20 years?

      All these issues are a legitimate concern for the voter, and they WILL come back to haunt him in November…

    • Tim Shipe

      Saralee-

      I would challenge your take on taxation on wealthy individuals and corporations hurting the middle-class and poor.

      I would recommend that you read Bill Gates Sr.’s book- Wealth and Our Commonwealth: Why America Should Tax Accumulated Fortunes- This book lays out a whole different historical scenario on taxation rates here in the U.S. than is discussed in modern conservative circles. The facts may surprise you.

      Another book to read is – Crunch- by Jared Bernstein- he is an economist who shows how most increases in tax rates on the rich and highly profitable corps will not result in job losses- it may result in doing away with some of the excessive perks and salaries at the executive level- but a bigger cause of job loss in the corporate world is the fact that Wall St. loves lay-offs- Wall St. likes higher unemployment rates because it keeps the pressure to raise wages and cut into corporate profits down. The system from DC and Wall St. is skewed to favor the biggest investors and the executive class- so if we are going to raise taxes to pay for the $1 trillion plus we need to upgrade our nation’s infrastructure- not to mention the billions going into maintaining an active global military empire- then we had better tax those who have the ability to pay- the reason the higher income folks are paying a higher percentage of overall taxes these days is the fact that the current global economic model is benefiting fewer people who are making an absolute killing- leaving the Middle-Class and below largely out of luck- income/asset disparity levels are way out of whack- and all the essentials that we have to pay for at the middle income level- energy, health care, education, food, insurance, are all increasing far beyond the rise in our incomes, even if we are paying less for luxury items and electronics thanks to Chinese slave labor.

      It would definitely help to study the Economic Life as taught in our social doctrine- Ch.7 in the Compendium of the Social Doctrine- note #355:

      355. Tax revenues and public spending take on crucial economic importance for every civil and political community. The goal to be sought is public financing that is itself capable of becoming an instrument of development and solidarity. Just, efficient and effective public financing will have very positive effects on the economy, because it will encourage employment growth and sustain business and non-profit activities and help to increase the credibility of the State as the guarantor of systems of social insurance and protection that are designed above all to protect the weakest members of society.

      Public spending is directed to the common good when certain fundamental principles are observed: the payment of taxes [739] as part of the duty of solidarity; a reasonable and fair application of taxes;[740] precision and integrity in administering and distributing public resources.[741] In the redistribution of resources, public spending must observe the principles of solidarity, equality and making use of talents. It must also pay greater attention to families, designating an adequate amount of resources for this purpose.[742]

    • John Jakubczyk

      Colin,
      You are being a little disingenuous with your post. Obama is an unapologetic pro-abortion enthusiast. He supports federal funding of abortion, wants universal health care to include abortion, voted against the partial birth abortion ban, voted against the Born Infants Protection Act, and opposed any efforts to pass protections for women and children.

      He has a 100% rating from NARAL and is quoted as saying

      “Thirty-five years after the Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade, it’s never been more important to protect a woman’s right to choose… Throughout my career, I’ve been a consistent and strong supporter of reproductive justice, and have consistently had a 100% pro-choice rating with Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America… As President, I will improve access to affordable health care and work to ensure that our teens are getting the information and services they need to stay safe and healthy.”

      He also told NARAL

      “A woman’s ability to decide how many children to have and when, without interference from the government, is one of the most fundamental rights we possess. It is not just an issue of choice, but equality and opportunity for all women.

      “I have consistently advocated for reproductive choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. I oppose any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court’s ruling in this case.

      I support legislation to expand access to contraception, health information, and preventative services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. That is why I co-sponsored the Prevention First Act of 2007, which will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. It will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.

      “Finally, I support the enactment and enforcement of laws that help prevent violence, intimidation, and harassment directed at reproductive health providers and their patients.”

      So Obama believes in

      abortion

      emergency contraception

      distributing more contraception to teen age girls without parental consent

      federal and state funding of abortion services

      appointing pro-abortion judges

      universal health care including abortion paid for by the taxpayers.

      This guy’s opinions and philosophy are so ANTI-Catholic that anyone who cannot see it must be wearing blinders.

      Remember this is a guy who tells you to expect the government to make the “change.” After all he never pulled anything out of his pocket except the crumbs to support the poor.

      When he made over $270,000 in 2001, his charitable contributions were less than $1500. In 2002 he gave $1050 after he and Michele earned over 259,000. This is a guy who cares about the poor. Get real.

      a Catholic cannot in good conscience support a person who wants to keep the killing of children legal, anyone than he could support someone back in the 1850s who wanted to keep slavery legal.

    • Guillermo Bustamante

      To Tim, Todd, & Colin:

      Crucial is: please don’t confuse a NON NEGOTIABLE issue as abortion, because there are other issues.

      Let me repeat my comment en Deal’s post 06-16-08:
      Congratulations Fr. Joseph: “to submerge this evil (abortion) in a grab-bag of other ‘issues’ promotes moral imbecility”.

      Refreshes your reminder: “Until when will I have to stand you IMB

    • Joe H

      It might be between “you and God in the end” – but I’m not talking about the end. I’m talking about here and now.

      Society is as much a collection of communities as it is families – just as several individuals belong to a family, several families belong to a parish and a neighborhood.

      I’m not saying there is NO individual relationship, but people like Ann who have a little freak out when it is suggested that individuals might have to subordinate themselves to a community are, in my view, missing the point. There is no contradiction between “God loves us as individuals” and “individuals are subordinate to the community.”

      And I don’t see any evidence that the “personal relationship” trumps all, that it isn’t simply one aspect of the greater relationship between the individual, the community, the parish, the Church and God in one spiritual enterprise. The so-called “Reformation” had as its aim the abolition of all those things it said stood between “the individual” and God.

      And I agree with what Tim has been saying – to drop the right and left nonsense and focus on the social teaching, which is going to rub anyone wholly committed to either extreme individualism or extreme statism the wrong way.

    • Tim Shipe

      At a website so obviously meant to be a place for orthodox Catholics to discuss the important events of our times- with a bold name like InsideCatholic- I fully expect that we would try to find the Truth by way of testing our assumptions and opinions against those principles and viewpoints found in official authoritative resources- Scripture and the Catechism heading the list, Papal Encyclicals and the Magisterium commissioned Compendium of the Social Doctrine coming up next, and then interviews/speeches and the like from the Pope and Holy See representatives, and then U.S. Bishops’ documents and national/state Catholic conferences- with all of these explicit Catholic sources of information- we should fill our consciences with the weight of all this and then come to the table to iron out the details of this or that policy- to argue the facts on the ground according to trusted expert analysis or personal experience.

      If we do all of these things- will we arrive at some kind of real CAtholic unity that will translate much deeper than liberal/conservative, Republican/Democrat? It is my prayer that we will become a positive force as orthodox Catholics, and not remain as lackie support for one totally unacceptable national candidate or another. I, for one, have no heart to vote for either McCain or Obama- they both disturb me to the core, they will continue the bleed of pain and suffering that comes from abortion, imperialism, elitism, bogus free markets (ain’t nothing free my friends), commercialism, exploitation, moral relativism, jingoism, anti-CAtholicism- you name it to some degree one is better at some of the above than the other- but the system we have right now is rot- it requires our complete social doctrine set of moral principles to cause a true Renaissance for the unborn, born, elderly, disabled, weak, suffering, poor, struggling, native and foreigner- I believe- I believe in God’s power to work through His Church’s teachings- but we can’t slop our way through- we must be organized, we must educated and open to debate- when will InsideCAtholic start hosting conferences, meetings for CAtholics of all stripes to attempt this unity and stop the name-calling that has replaced civil argumentation?

    • James

      Regarding the pro-life pharmacies, I was so relieved to learn [biting sarcasm] that, although “the operators refuse to sell condoms, birth-control pills, or the Plan B emergency contraceptive/abortifacient,” they will definitely be selling Viagra. Whew! For a moment there, I thought that civilization as we know it might be coming to an end.

    • Joe H

      Tim,

      I am with you 100% on your last post.

      And I also agree with you about avoiding the major candidates this November.

      I resent the argument – and I’m not pointing a finger, but I have seen it within the Catholic community – that tries to box us in to voting for an imperialist psycho like McCain with the following logic:

      1) It is your moral duty to vote,

      2) It is your moral duty not to vote for the abortion candidate, therefore,

      3) It is your moral duty to vote for John McCain (assuming there are no acceptable third party candidates in your state).

      I won’t do it. The economic, environmental and war policies of the GOP violate every core principle of Catholic social teaching.

      Abortion is a great evil, perhaps the greatest evil of our time, but a McCain victory would be a phyrric victory at best – at least, and probably as usual, the GOP won’t actually do anything to stop abortion.

      Abortion IS an issue being used to tear us apart by the secular parties, and it may be time for us to form something along the lines of a Christian Democratic party in US. We desperately need a political platform that defends life and promotes the common good at the same time.

    • Andy K.

      Most already know that I, like many others, are voting third-party in November for the office of President of the United States.

      I just don’t understand how I could support McCain when he contradicts so much basic Catholic teaching. Yes, I know Obama is worse. I’ve said so numerous times. But why on earth are we, as Catholics, lending our support to a candidate who, under normal circumstances, would never be worthy of our support?

      We’ve sat on our haunches for too long. It will only get worse and worse until we finally have the courage to say “enough.”

      Chuck Baldwin, Alan Keyes, Joe Schindler…these guys are actually worthy of a vote, and they’re running for the office. Are McCain and Obama?

      At this point, I can only [smiley=laugh] at those who say they are.

    • Todd

      “In plain words: a Catholic CAN NOT vote for the Infanticide Candidate, but for a lesser evil, or nullify your vote.”

      In plain words, how does it settle with you that 50% of Catholics, give or take 5%, will indeed vote for Senator Obama in November? Republicans are virtually powerless to do anything about this. In fact, if bishops push too hard at the wrong time, as they did with Amendment 2 in Missouri in 2006, they might well trigger a stubborn backlash that will further sink their efforts.

      This election cycle is a good time to pull the pro-life effort back from the front lines. If we attempt to glue it too closely to the Republican raft we might well sink the whole effort and scuttle any hope of progress on the abortion front for another generation or two.

      While abortion is indeed about the gravest evil on the market today, government is involved in other evils not nearly as grave because of quantity, but involved in a much deeper way because of direct responsibility. The voice against war and torture has not been nearly strong enough from conservatives, Republicans, or some Catholics who wear either or both monikers. Devote 90 percent or more of your efforts to abortion, by all means. It’s time to come out publicly against the Bush administration or set aside the pro-life mantle. It’s not going to take that much time or energy to pull yourselves out from the ostrich hole, take a brief stand for something your faith demands of you, then return to the politicking for the unborn. Who knows, you may feel better for it.

    • John Jakubczyk

      I suppose you all know all the answers. After all you all have been in the trenches of the pro-life movement of the last 30 years and you have seen where we have been kicked in the teeth by our political friends and taken to court and sued by our enemies. You have tried with every bone in your body to save some girl you don’t even know from killing her baby only to fail and wonder what you could have done different.

      Yet you stand in judgment over the mistakes of those who trusted and believed in a better way or a new direction or an incremental approach. Now you curse the political process and demand purity in a world so messed up that the lead story reports that 17 girls made a pact to get pregnant, while the west coast papers gleefully report the onslaught of the next homosexual revolution.

      So cast your vote for a third party candidate and feel good about yourself. Help Obama get elected so he can promote abortion worldwide. Ignore what we CAN do and pontificate about how evil Bush and his friends are.

      I will not give up. I will support John McCain because while he may not be the perfect candidate, he is far and away the better of the lot. He can get elected, unlike the minor candidates mentioned above. None of them is electable. None of them are serious campaigners. For them it is about ego.

      Obama will be a disaster, just as Clinton was a disaster. Two days after Clinton was elected on January 22, 1993, he repealed the Mexico City Policy restricting federal funding of international organizations that work to reverse countries’ abortion laws, reversed Title 10 regulations banning abortion referral by federal employees,negated the ban on funding for fetal tissue transplants, ordered military hospitals to perform abortions, and asked the FDA to “review” the import ban on RU 486.

      Clinton nominated Ginsburg and Breyer. Who do you think Obama will select? A pro-abortion liberal pro-homosexual, anti-Catholic judge.

      As for the Missouri effort, two more weeks and the pro-lifers would have won. It was a classic case of no one believing we could win and our weakness proving the point. Yet in spite of the nay sayers, they almost pulled it off.

      As for the other important issues of the day, how many of them are killing 3600 babies a day? Stop abortion and see the trickle down effect on society. Stop abortion and export the concept of real honest to goodness respect for human life. Stop polluting the womb and maybe people will understand why they should not pollute the environment.

      As for pro-life Democrats, please stop telling Republicans how evil they are while my former party continues to have blood on its hands. I remember when the party was taken over by hte pro-abortionists. I also remember how pro-life voting democrats one by one surrendered their convictions, sold heir souls and pandered to the pro-abortion Left. Gore, Biden, Kennedy, Durbin, Gephardt, all turned their back on the children to remain in or seek to advance in power. Then there were the Cuomos and the Moynihans and O’Neils who time and again talked about the being “personally opposed” in order to defend their pro-abortion policies. And who can forget our own Fr. Drinan who went out of his way to defend the abortionist politicians and voted that way himself. What have any of them done to help the unborn?

    • Kathy

      I agree with you 100%. That is why I will vote for John McCain. I know that he is not perfect but he is the better of the two candidates. Voting for a third party person to make a statement is not going to change anything and may also do harm if it enables Obama to win. To me Obama is the perfect sociopath….very charming with evil intentions. Heaven help us.

    • Marjorie Campbell

      Tim Shipe wrote: It is my prayer that we will become a positive force as orthodox Catholics, and not remain as lackie support for one totally unacceptable national candidate or another. – when will InsideCAtholic start hosting conferences, meetings for CAtholics of all stripes to attempt this unity and stop the name-calling that has replaced civil argumentation?

      Tim, there is much you have said in these comments which I (1) admire and (2) completely agree with. But you step on your own foot at times. For example, how can you effectively call for “civil argumentation” while referring to a “party first-religion second” political enthusiastic as “lackie”, which is, actually “lackey”, meaning “toady” or “flunkey” and, not inappropriately, originates as a reference to a servile, male servant? This hardly invites the dialogue I think you seek, anymore than Bill Donohue’s “Ah-ha, I’ve caught you” … “in a fool’s exercise” invites the groups he targets to share a cup of coffee.
      I find there is a fundamental difference between political players who draft select, religious teachings into their campaign strategies and politically interested Catholics who assess each candidate against the broader array of religious teachings – with a healthy dose of very committed “one issue” activists participating in the mix. I think that InsideCatholic.com has provided a “town center” for this blend to debate and dialogue. I, for one, change my mind several times daily about how I will use my vote in the fall (much to the dismay of my Republican-first husband), and I find the articles and comments here as a great resource. Let the conference continue!

    • Tim Shipe

      I appreciate your views John- I will use your words in my own deeper orbit soul-search. I truly haven’t decided on how to express my conscience on election day. I had been focused on my own race for Florida state house- but after a decent little run last election cycle, my campaign is now dead in the water due to a decided lack of support among social liberal Dem activists who dominate my party, and the more hurtful lack of support from the Catholic/Christian/Pro-Life local community- even as I made a vigorous pitch to all with a political vision that put forth bold right to life initiatives, and was 100% with the Florida Catholic Conference, with whom I kept in close contact to check how my ideas were connecting to our social doctrine. All to no avail. Not enough volunteers, not enough money- I tried working inside a major party- this was not about ego- I received 40% in the one election I did get on the ballot for last time.

      John, I do believe that faithful Catholics can take back large tracts of influence in both major parties- but what I see now are mostly just Catholics serving as lackeys for the dominate forces in both parties- pro-choice, pro-war, pro-empire neo-colonial economics and foreign policy, and all the rest of the rot that comes from moral relativism, Me-Great Nationalism, as Rod Dreher describes it- the Party of Lust v. the Party of Greed.

      I am in a quandry- there is no easy choice in all of this- I feel the sting of all the unborn killing, all the needless killing and family tragedy unleashed by American foreign policies, all the needless death related to global poverty where fresh drinking water is not considered a top global priority- waiting I suppose for the free market to find a way to turn a profit on that inexusable human suffering. No- MCCain and Obama don’t deserve to be the leader of a country where I have to take some measure of personal responsibility for the actions of my government. The Lesser Evil argument may win the day for me- just not today- not yet.

    • Deal Hudson

      Tim, I’m sorry to hear you have dropped out of the congressional race — you would have been an important voice to have at the Capitol. I don’t embrace Dreher’s grand dualism of Lust vs. Greed, first, because it’s not true, although it sounds cute, and second because it suggests there is some purer place we can go to practice a transcendent politics of some sort. That’s the perennial dream of those who speculate about third parties, which always turn out to be just another political party, say, the party of Wrath (just to pick one). I hope you will come to see that the harm Obama could do to this country overrides your reservations about the GOP.

    • David W.

      I’ve enjoyed your postings and am sorry the political machine didn’t give you the time of day. You don’t fit neatly in their box, so they aren’t going to deal with you. Hilaire Belloc ran into similiar difficulties when he was in the British Parliament a century ago. Keep fighting the good fight. The Judicial Nominee argument is a joke, because of the GOP’s Congressional situation…facing a stomping of a magnitude that the word disheartening doesn’t cover. No Pro-Life nominee will ever make it with a President McCain…its a rotted carrot that the GOP is holding out to Christian voters, and they know it. Its cynical and insulting. As for McCain’s other positions, those are of a more negotiable stripe. Political realities have to be acknowledged. The GOP will not end Abortion in America, and their consistent use of that issue to drum Christians to the polls “because the other guy is the spawn of Satan” has grown tiresome.

    • Guillermo Bustamante

      Name calling is necessary, and Jesus sets the example:
      “Until when will I have to stand you IMB

    • Tim Shipe

      Marjorie-

      Sorry I didn’t see your posting before I sent my last one.

      Very well put- I should put “Lackey” back on the shelf- it is amusing how easily I can fall into the same trap of unfair or antagonistic name calling- even when I am writing to bemoan the practice of counterproductive name calling!

      I personally know Catholics who are genuine enthusiasts for the Republican or Democratic Party- they aren’t paid “lackeys” they just find so much that is praiseworthy in their respective parties that they go too far (in my humble opinion) in providing Catholic moral cover for their chosen party. I can disagree with this “excessive enthusiasm” without having to label them as someone who is dishonest, corrupted or unmanly.

      For myself, I am in total “rethink” mode- I’ve spent my life as a Democrat- long before I had any inkling of the Catholic faith, I was a self-starter Democrat- back when I was 13, in a family of Republicans I fell in as a Carter Democrat- with no prodding or even inspiration from any adult source at home or school- I found a way to get downtown in Columbus, Ohio to volunteer for the Carter Campaign- spent many hours there and stayed up election night in their hq. Pretty exciting stuff for a young teen-

      Fast forward to today- as a Board of Advisor for Florida Dems for Life and Pax Romana based in South Florida- I have made it my quest to restore the Dem Party to the Party of FDR- the meeting point with none other than Ronald Reagan. My sense is that the social doctrine of our Church lines up pretty well with the New Deal approach- combine it with directing public monies into many solid Faith-Based activities to prevent the secular government bureaucracies from taking things out of the hands of the people who really care about the people, and add Space Program type national missions, with pro-life, pro-trad family policies and bully pulpit promotion- and I think we can locate a political vision that can unite Catholics, serve the common good, and transcend the current Democrat v. Republican ideologies.

      Now I am a small fry- so this blog is good for people like me to have a little soap box- but I would like to see InsideCatholic hold conferences in D.C. inviting reps from the Holy See, reps from America’s Bishops’ conference, orthodox theologians and social doctrine experts, and of course, leading political lights from both major parties- Catholics who advertise themselves as such should be more than open to come and dialogue. The powerful Catholics need to engage- they must engage one another and test their assumptions against the Church’s own teachings. Republican and Democratic leaders will never find unity if they don’t meet and speak, and they won’t find the truth if they aren’t going to the source social doctrine for the answers.

    • David W.

      This is a serious question. How much longer will people be “compelled” to vote Republican, because of Abortion? Irregardless of how intolerable the Party’s other positions are? I think the time has come for some serious re-evaluation…much like the Abolitionists did with the Whig Party. The Dance has ended, the music has stopped. There will be no Pro-Life Justices to the Bench, irregardless of who wins. Lets face facts and be real, here…cut past the nonsense.

    • Tim Shipe

      For me, I have to decide if I should remain a Democrat and continue to fight for a bigger Life and Trad Family/Pro-Religion presence in the Democratic tent- or maybe it is time for me to switch gears- go Republican and run on exactly the same principles that made me an FDR Democrat- but really push the envelope on Life and Family issues- targeting abortion on the basis of Natural Law and going after the Fertily Clinic practice of creating “spare embryos”. And targeting the alcohol industry by eliminating such ads from all sporting events- to curb binge drinking and bring the sport’s industry back to the kids.

      Adding to that more subsidies for stay-at-home mothers as is mentioned in our social doctrine compendium #250 and #251 under Family Section and to fight for more public funding of private Catholic schools- see #241 and the pope’s recent statements. My thinking outside-the-box approach to Education- having the State pay teacher salaries at accredited non-profit, private schools based on a 1-20 or 25 teacher-student ratio- with private school teachers forming a sister union with public school teachers to protect wages and benefits, but not to enter into the private school’s mission statement and moral requirements for teacher hires and the like. In other words- every parent is paying taxes to fund schools- but only government schools receive a share of those taxes- parents have a fundamental right to educate their children to the moral order – public schools have been confined to a more-or-less agnostic worldview. Parents also have a right and need to have their children educated in a safe, friendly school environment- more varied types of schools are needed to fill this genuine “market” need. Reality is that only the wealthy are empowered with the resources for most Catholic and other types of private schools. State funding of teachers, but not facilities would go a long way to opening the playing field.

      It was this proposal that nailed the lid on my campaign’s coffin- my pro-life status was tolerated by a few inside the Dem activist base, but my proposal for additional funding for private schools, led to a complete collapse of support for me inside the Democratic fold, locally, anyway. Maybe I will find more open minds inside Republican circles? As a Catholic who is 110% on the non-negotiable parts of the social doctrine- would Republican Catholics support my candidacy if I take another approach to the issues related to economics, immigration, foreign policy et al than has been the standard within Republican circles? I am wondering- at this point- Republican Catholics have a strong hand in that they can lay better claim to the non-negotiable issues than the Dems- but what of a movement that combines the best of social conservatism with what I would consider the best of the more liberal (generous) economic policies found within Democratic circles? Would Republican Catholics vote for someone who was the strongest pro-life, pro-trad religion force, but who is also a suspect liberal on taxes/foreign policy etc.. arguing from the moral principles articulated in the social teachings of our Church- just curious?

    • Lee

      This has been one of the most interesting discussions on InsideCatholic. The posts have been really thought provoking.

      Could it be argued that there are two dominant philosophies on how to approach/handle (for lack of better words) charity to the poor, social justice, economic justice, etc? (And that they should meet in the middle?)

      One philosophy emphasizes individual responsibility and obligation and the other emphasizes responsibility and obligation of the community. Neither philosophy having all the answers, neither being absolutely right nor wrong. Each philosophical school of thought having an abundance of people who do good, who follow Christ and attempt to live a holy life.
      And the two dominant philosophies of charity have always existed and have worked together through the ages.

      Today’s American Catholics express these philosophical differences through politics and we take sides – left/right, liberal/conservative, Democrat/Republican – which can be good and constructive.

      However, there is one very serious issue of contention among Catholics today regardless of philosophy and that is abortion. And I have to agree with Bill Donohue in his assertion that Catholics who belong to the Democratic Party have been boxed in by the party’s support of abortion.
      God, please soften my heart and help me to see the truth, Amen.

    • David W.

      It is the construct of Left/Right that continues to be used, however ill fitting it is to Catholic teaching as a whole. My question stands: How long will Christian voters be forced or percieved to be forced to vote Republican because of Abortion, regardless of how repugnant one might find say their economic platform or foriegn policy issues. Catholic Democrats are boxed in because of Abortion, but so are Catholic Republicans. BECAUSE of Abortion, they feel compelled to vote Republican, because of Life issues, even if they vehemently disagree with the GOP on many other issues. This is intolerable, which is why I believe the Pro-Life movement needs to reevaluate its political loyalties.

    • Lee

      To say that Catholics are “forced” to vote Republican because of the abortion issue is a fallacy. False accusations cause division where Catholics should be united – the right to life.

      As there are many Catholics who disagree with the platform of the Republican party – there are just as many Catholics who strongly disagree with numerous fundamental issues that are tied to the Democratic Party . Same-sex marriage, activist judges and socialism are a few that come right to mind.

      Again, I agree with Bill Donohue, the Democratic party has boxed themselves in. Gloating – and they do gloat – about being pro-abortion is not only repugnant, it’s EVIL.

    • David W.

      I’ve seen it on this forum and many others…You can’t support Obama because he’s Pro Abortion, and if you vote for a third party candidate its a “vote for Obama” so who else is there? The lesser of two evils argument is what perpetuates this nonsense. Every election cycle, the “I’ll nominate Pro-Life Judges” banner is dusted off. Only this time, its a dead letter. Alito and Roberts made it because the GOP was in control. That won’t be the case again for a long time. I wouldn’t be surprised if all the liberal Justices decided to retire, and there were more than 2 vacancies. This would be the perfect time for them. Obama is President, easy nominations of liberal Justices. McCain wins, he’s backed into a corner by an uber-hostile Congress, which will be more than likely filibuster proof, nullifying any GOP opposition in Congress. McCain will cave, because he won’t be able to leave those vacancies for long, and the Democrats will wait him out because they can. In the end, compromise candidates. So with this political reality facing us, what else is there?

    • John Jakubczyk

      The argument posted by David is to give reluctant votes for McCain pause to consider the value of their vote. After all we all raise the issue of judges. According to David the Senate will be controlled by the liberals and McCain will not get his picks. But such an argument begs the question and presumes the results. There are a number of leading jurists sympathetic to the idea of a restrained judiciary that are not far-left activists. This pool is made up of many fine jurists who are not “conservative” or “right wing” choices. Many of us lawyers would be content with a pro-life judge who also had a good history on other issues. There is also the Senate and a pool of fine senators that could be nominated to the bench. The courtesy of the Senate and the closeness of the “club” cannot be ignored.
      But aside from the judges, there are the other appointments – the the cabinet, the various departments, etc. And then there is the policy toward the pro-life issues, as seen in the Executive Orders. Finally the scariest item – universal health care with mandatory abortion coverage paid by the taxpayer. Did you ever wonder why Planned Parenthood is building huge mega-abortion clinics throughout the country? Do you think it might be their way of planning for the imposition of mandatory abortion coverage and the government tax dollars paying for abortions?

      Here in Arizona we have our own version of Obama.
      WE pass a ban on partial birth abortion. The governor vetoes it. We just passed it again. Tonight we had a prayer vigil in front of the state capitol praying that she will sign it. Will it happen? Only God knows. But here is the point. These pro-lifers were the same folks helping out the other day handing water bottles to the homeless. The pro-life community is made up of people who care not just about the unborn but about all of God’s children. If David, Tim, Todd and others want to transform both parties to reflect a Judeo-Christian values, then start by demanding that the candidates and the party respect the right to life. Without the right to life, there are no other rights. Of course that means getting involved. Now I am sorry Tim that your campaign did not get the support it needed, but do not rule out an effort in the future. Timing is everything in politics. Take what you have learned and re-analyze the situation.

      So to wrap up. Thank you to those who were kind in their comments. Do not give up / In fact to quote Churchill, Never, never, never give up.

      You and I are alive. We can fight for the children still unborn. We can make a difference. Everything starts with prayer. Then follow the Lord’s direction. I would suggest that He will not direct you to vote for a pro-abortion pro-infanticide, pro-homosexual marriage, never gave much in the charity department candidate. Remember Obama is the same fellow who publicly regretted voting with the Senate in support of Terri Schiavo. Just s peach of a guy. I would suggest he would want you to educate your fellow citizens on the truth. Fro “the truth will set us free.”

    • Tim Shipe

      John- I hear you brother- I just sent Brian a copy of a letter I wrote to my local newspaper(ask him to forward it to you if you are interested) where I look over the corpse of my pro-life, pro-Religion Democratic candidacy.

      What I want to get back to is the old FDR Dem New Deal Coalition of CAtholic Workers, Immigrants, Social Gospel Protestants- the Party that held the Ronald Reagans of the world as well. Maybe that party is dead and gone and my campaign is just one more piece of evidence for that conclusion.

      I look at it that I have to make some decisions- one is the Presidential Election which is the one everyone here is properly focused on. The other is for me personally as a wanna-be community leader- do I go or do I stay in the Democratic party? If I stay I will need to redouble my efforts to build up the Florida Dems for Life organization- starting in my own county- I had planned on using my successful candidacy as the quickest bridge to that end. Can I do it now as a non-candidate, maybe getting invites to African-American and Hispanic oriented churches to make my pitch to religious minorities who are probably going for the Dems for other issues of immediate need- to not continue to give over to the progressive activists on issues of abortion, religious values and the like. These communities are the most ripe for taking back the pro-life territory lost.

      My other option is to go Independent or Republican! I can push the social issue agenda further in the Republican Party- I am a pro-life maximalist- I’m on-board with the Church social doctrine 110%. Will Republicans reject my candidacy and membership because of the Prudential Judgment issues? Wouldn’t that be a corker- Catholic Republicans rejecting a dream Pro-Life, Pro-Family candidate because his interpretation of the social doctrine tells him he must end America’s militaristic empire building, must put forth a moral juridical framework for the global economy, must intervene in the consolidation of power and wealth that is damaging our health and environment – now that would be interesting to see how Catholic Republicans would react- don’t you think? Would I be welcomed as a genuine pro-life son, or rejected as a tax the rich “socialist”? John? Deal?

    • Joe H

      Tim,

      “Would I be welcomed as a genuine pro-life son, or rejected as a tax the rich “socialist”?”

      Rejected. And didn’t you know that FDR was a commie only a half a degree to the right of Stalin?

      I’m still amused by the argument that an unfettered economy is necessary so that we may have the opportunity to be charitable. I know that some of the contributors here genuinely believe this, but at the same time, if this isn’t a potential last refuge of a scoundrel, I don’t know what is.

      When the Popes inveighed against “socialism”, they were talking about violent class warfare and the nationalization of all property. By American right-wing standards, though, the Christian Democratic parties of Europe, which were formed specifically to put Catholic social teaching into practice, may as well be Bolshevik revolutionaries. It’s all a massive red blur past “unlimited economic gain is not the highest priority of individuals or societies.”

      All of this nonsense can be put to rest quite simply, by understanding 1) all of the wealth of society is the result of a collective, international effort – it doesn’t spring fully formed from the mind of the picturesque risk-taking entrepreneur, and 2) we have a right to expect that the wealth we have created will be used to satisfy our basic human needs.

      A demand for health care and a dignified standard of living is a demand that our humanity and our contribution to society as productive, law-abiding members be recognized. There is nothing radical about this – the real radicals are those who believe that the unlimited accumulation of personal wealth is what every policy should be subordinated to.

      There is absolutely no justification at all for anyone to possess millions of dollars for their own private use, and especially if they call themselves a Christian. I am saddened when I think of how much misery could be avoided if so many Americans didn’t believe it was their divine right to become a millionare or a billionare. To lust after a sum of wealth far in excess of what one needs to live even an extremely comfortable life is naked greed; to have an entire society driven mad by this lust is to practically guarantee riots, civil unrest, and probably a civil war somewhere down the line.

      Anyone who wants to know what it would really take to put the free-market utopia into practice should look up Chile, Pinochet, and the Chicago Boys.

    • David W.

      Look at Congress. You can almost set your watch to the reaction McCain’s nominees would get. The Abortion Lobby would ensure that Abortion was front and center. I think McCain and the GOP need to focus their big guns on defeating homosexual “marriage” in California. That is where conservatives need to make their stand on the social front. Because if the homosexual activists win in California, a domino effect will occur in the courts and state capitals all across the country. This isn’t paranoid delusion, this is a recognition of the push the other side is making. The defense of Marriage and Abortion are related battles. I am not a defeatist, I’m a realist. In a war, sometimes retreat happens. The Pro-life movement, on a national level is in retreat. It is in the State Houses where the efforts need to be concerted and focused on. Bush and the neo-conservatives have wrecked the Pro-life movement on the Federal level. I’ve been saying over and over that political loyalties need to be reevaluated. As for cabinet posts, which ones are of concern to you? I’m talking strictly from a Catholic perspective…

    • David W.

      …you can’t force people to be nice using the government. I’m all for a regulatory/mediating role for government, but we need to be careful about embracing full blown Socialism and slapping a Roman Collar on it.

    • John Jakubczyk

      Tim,
      Both options are viable. Regarding the second,you can take a cue from Chris Smith (R-NJ) who once upon a time was the state executive director for NJRTL. He was a Democrat and wanted to run for office. The Dems showed him the door. So he wet across the street to the Republicans who did not get in his way and – guess what – all those pro-life Dems voted for him and he was elected to Congress. A reasoned approach to all issues along with integrity should be the approach of an honest politician.

      If you decide to remain in the party (something in good conscience I could not do in 1976 – definitely respect those who do), I would begin speaking to those disenfranchised naturally pro-life (thought perhaps they do not know it) voters and call for them to adopt the “threshold test” when casting their ballot. The “threshold teat” informs a politician that if he or she wants my vote, they must pass the threshold on their being pro-life. If the candidate thinks it is permissible to have legal abortion, then he does not cross the threshold. If Pro-life Democrats would demand within their own party this consideration from their candidates and their leadership, things would change. But hey don’t and they won’t. Instead they blame the “rich” Republicans as one senses in some of the posts herein.

      As for people who make a lot of money, I say this. If they use it wisely, God bless them. If they help the poor, and start businesses and put people to work, and buy products so people can make them and sell them, and support charitable efforts and schools, why complain? Having money poses a different set of challenges for the human person and as the Scripture notes can put the soul in harms way. Yet Our Lord had many “rich” friends and did not tell all of them to sell everything and give ti to the poor. Everyone who starts a business and employs people does a good thing. What is important is that Catholic virtues and teachings permeate such establishments. I will give you one example from the book, Les Miserables. Valjean owned the factory. He improved that town. He put people to work. He paid them a fair wage. He was a model of a Christian businessman. He amassed wealth. That wealth helped him in time of need. It helped the wagoner after his accident. It helped the convent. A Christian colored free market system is much better than any government regulated or socialist economy. Personal responsibility is needed to help us become saints. The fallen nature of man prevents government from ever being the total answer to the problems of society.

      David, As for the judges, We warned them about O’Connor and Souter. Kennedy turned on us. There is a part of McCain that will not let the Senate beat him up on the judges issue. Can you say Justice John Kyl?

    • David W.

      If John McCain by miracle is elected, he may surprise me. But I for one am not getting my hopes up, or expecting anything. The reality is, he can’t win in the Senate. You honestly think he will risk sabotaging his whole presidency over judges? That is exactly what will happen. The Democrats smell GOP blood in the water, they know the Republicans will suffer defeats, comparable to their stomping during the New Deal, the Eisenhower years, and post Watergate. This is a very low point for the GOP, an opportunity to ram through their agenda…and they will take it. Have no illusions about that. I said in another thread, I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the liberal Justices decided to retire, and there was more than 1 or 2 vacancies. John McCain is in a almost hopelessly losing position on the Supreme Court issue….and he knows it, which is probably why he has been focusing more on the economy in his stump speeches.

    • John Jkaubczyk

      …we both agree. For “put not your trust in princes,” as it says in the Good Book.

      May Almighty God have mercy on us, and this country, and all who are called to lead it.

    • Joe H

      David W. wrote: …you can’t force people to be nice using the government. I’m all for a regulatory/mediating role for government, but we need to be careful about embracing full blown Socialism and slapping a Roman Collar on it.

      Who said anything about forcing people to be nice?

      I don’t think setting limits on personal wealth is going to make anyone nice. I am not some wiled-eyed believer in the transformative power of material conditions. I fully agree with Pope Benedict’s criticism of Marx in his last encyclical, where he identifies his primary error as materialism.

      This is about a) economic justice, since the collective efforts of workers are as much responsible for the wealth in society as any individual effort, b) ensuring that everyone has the dignified standard of living that their status as human beings entitles them to (which would be achieved if the laborer’s just entitlement to profit was recognized), and c) preventing the social chaos that will inevitably ensue when masses of people have nothing left to lose but their lives.

      These aims, before I say anything else, are essentially those of Catholic social teaching, which anyone can discover for themselves by reading the relevant encyclicals and documents. There hasn’t been a Pope from Leo XIII onward that has not recognized the connection between labor and property (namely that labor is what creates property), called for a dignified standard of living, and strenuously warned against the dangers of class warfare.

      Anyone who thinks that the majority of the workers and the poor in this country, or any country, will be pacified by libertarian moral or utilitarian axioms about the economy is deluded. It has never happened and it never will happened. That is why I mentioned Chile before – where a brutal dictatorship, with the blessing of the Republican Party and the CIA, was established by Milton Friedman’s “Chicago Boys” in order to undue the “socialist” program of Allende and instill a free-market utopia.

      The right-wing fanatics in this country believe that government spending on practically anything short of the military and the roads constitutes a socialist program. Who knows the extent to which they are willing to emulate Pinochet to realize their vision? Some believe that elections have already been stolen, millions of minority voters likely to vote Democrat have been intimidated, stricken from the voter rolls, lied to about the date and time of elections, etc.

      I’m not even opposed to free markets. I don’t believe they should be regulated or controlled on principle. What I object to is, first, the elevation of free-markets to an “untouchable dogma” instead of recognize them has having a definite place in the hierarchy of values, secondly the idea that EVERYTHING is a commodity to be bought and sold on the market, and finally that individuals are necessarily the smallest economic unit. I believe human beings were meant to live in economic, political and spiritual communities.

      I also believe, again, that the products sold on the market are the products of collective human labor as much as they are any individual effort, and that justice demands that the workers – all workers – obtain a share in the profits of exchange. This proposition has NOTHING to do with market regulation.

    • David W.

      Taxation? Confiscation? (which to some are the same thing)

      How can you put a ceiling on someone’s wealth? I am not an apologist for the monied interests, but how can you justify imposing such limits? For the “Common Good?” That is still coercing people…not all coercion comes out of the barrel of a gun.

    • Joe H

      Either you believe taxes are theft – a violation of the seventh commandment – or you believe that they aren’t. I can’t recall a single authoritative Catholic statement on political philosophy ever arguing that taxes amount to theft. It’s reading libertarian ethics into Catholic morality, and I think it is bound to fail.

      Why put “the common good” in scare quotes, as if it is some sort ambigiuous concept being used to veil an insidious plan? The common good is clearly defined by the Church as the sum total of conditions that allow us to fulfill ourselves more easily.

      Massive inequalities in wealth are harmful to the common good, ergo, there should not be massive inequalities in wealth. If taxes aren’t theft, if governments are legitimate, if we haven’t become individualist anarchists – then there is nothing immoral about setting limits on personal wealth and enforcing them with “coercion.”

      I don’t want to take away anyone’s freedom to be short sighted, selfish, and greedy – we are all sinners and that will never change – but I sure do want to minimize the damage to society and the enviornment such people can do.

      There is no reason the whole planet and billions of people need to groan in agony and toil in misery on the principle that it is wrong to interfere with the accumulation of millions and billions of dollars in personal wealth.

      That said, I don’t think taxes are any sort of long-term solution. I think it would be ridiculous to assume you can transform society through policy alone.

      The solution lies in the diffusion of private property that can only be effectively used on a collective basis, meaning, everyone has a share that is theirs, but it is practically worthless if not used in cooperation with others.

      I think this can be done largely without coercion, if interested groups of motivated citizens consciously choose to abandon a failing and degrading system – American corporate capitalism – and then choose to establish a better one, the cooperative cluster (workers, housing, consumer and credit co-ops rolled into one). So my solution is to show the benefits of this idea and seek ways to implement it.

    • Corey Mehlos

      I

    • Corey Mehlos

      If I had to identify the most important (but not only) issue in this election, it would be health care. Dr. King once remarked that “of all the injustices, injustice in health care is the most shocking and inhumane.” Indeed, absent adequate health care, no human life can survive. Therefore I believe we must do a better job of distributing the best medical resources in the world to meet our most vulnerable citizen’s needs. I believe Senator McCain’s plan does not go about it in the right direction by offering a health care tax credit/savings account ($2,500 per individual; $5,000 per couple). Unfortunately, with today’s health care costs, we need to make sure that all Americans are given basic access to health care to prevent further injury and expenses to our hospitals (each year our country spends $1.8 trillion on health care). Senator Obama’s plan is not perfect, I believe we need a universal coverage mandate, but it is a small step in the right direction: required coverage for children and lowering health care costs overall. I hope that if Senator Obama is elected he will help initiate the beginning stages of the fight against this great injustice.

      So the question in my mind is not whether Senator Barack Obama or Senator John McCain’s views are completely perfectly aligned with those of the Catholic Church. Neither candidate, nor party, is. The Catholic Church is itself non-partisan although it does encourage political involvement in accord with its shared vision of working to uphold the rights and dignity of all human beings (Guadium et Spes). And while there are many pro-life issues in addition to abortion (including but not limited to worker’s rights, international aid, equal educational opportunities – - school funding remains largely disproportionate based on income tax in districts – - the war, health care, and poverty), and I recognize that politics can’t address much less solve them all, I believe, that it starts with the least of our brothers and sisters. To this end, I believe Senator Obama offers a better vision and this is why I choose to support his presidency.

    • Joe H

      Corey,

      We can oppose legal abortion and still insist on a comprehensive approach to the problem.

      I think the Democrats of Life, an organization of Democratic politicans who are pro-life, have proposed excellent legislation, such as the Pregnant Women Support Act, something to look up when you have a moment. If ever government were justified in spending your tax dollars and mine, it is on the proposals of this program – though, ideally, I would like to see more local initiative.

      Meanwhile Obama’s support for abortion crosses over into infanticide. He promised the Christ-hating ultra radical feminists (no I’m not lumping ALL feminists together) that he would sign the “Freedom of Choice” Act into law! This would make RvW. permanent.

      While I would vastly prefer him to McCain on several issues, I can’t vote for this man. I won’t vote for McCain either, for reasons we probably share. I will either find an acceptable third party candidate, or stay home on election day. Besides, the GOP probably has the elections rigged already :)

    • John Jakubczyk

      Honestly i am trying to understand. Some of you dismiss John McCain with the comments that he won’t do much to stop abortion, implying that you think it is important to do something to stop abortion – and I agree, Then in the next breath you argue that you can support a hard nose extremist pro-abortion candidate because you think he will be good on health care, eduction, etc. This is the guy who in 2001 made over $272,000 in wages and gave a whopping $1,470 to charity; a staggering .5% of his income.

      Why?

      What makes you think he will help anyone? Why would he care about born children if he is so ready to allow the continuation of the killing of unborn children?

      Obama wants to pass the FOCA to make permanent Roe v. Wade. He supports Planned Parenthood. Planned parenthood is a racist genocidal organization. Gosh – sounds like Hitler and the Nazis. Oh wait Margaret Sanger supported the eugenics programs of the German government in the 1930s.

      so in 50 years will are grandchildren be asking how is it that we allowed 3600 babies to be killed every day? And will we answer – that we supported Obama because he made the trains run on time?

      Think about it. Every day – the babies die. What are we doing to stop it? And some of you want to elect an abortion extremist?

    • daniel

      Many comments here are correct. Both Catholic democrats and Catholic republicans are boxed in because their respective candidates do not stand for Catholic values.

      Why not vote Libertarian? Bob Barr is anti-abortion and is against the Iraq war. This is the conscience vote. Show that there are significant Catholics still in the US. If Bob Barr can get at least 10 to 20% of the vote, that will be a very good signal.

    • JC

      Joe H.,
      So what do you have to say to the Desert Fathers?

      My problemw with all the political discussion in general is that it completely changes focus from what we’re supposed to be thinking about.

      You can call it a Protestant mentality, but it’s what you’ll see in almost every single saint: Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Follow Jesus completely.

      The main reason I became a traditionalist in religion and a conservative in politics is that all the liberal Catholics I knew growing up cared more about politics than about salvation of souls.

      Now, I’ve come to see the same attitude among “conservatives.”

      To say that “the individual is subordinate to the community” and mean, by the community, the secular community, is to imply an inherent conflict in the life of the Christian. It is to justify comprimising the demands of the Gospel in order to satisfy the Community. Every saint in some way went against the “community,” often when the “community” was the Church, and even a “religious community” within the Church. To follow a vocation to the priesthood or the religious life is, in many different respects to “go against the community,” as the secular world demands people work “productive jobs,” and the family usually opposes the individual’s vocation.

      Catholics who emphasize politics in general tend to conflate the secular with the sacred. Our “community” is the Church. The outside is the World. It is, in Jesus’ words, our enemy.

      We are supposed to be agents of change in the world, but it supposed to be change for the sake of advancing Christianity, not Christianity as the basis for our political agenda (what C. S. Lewis called “Christianity and . . . “).

      As a Christian, I am not in any way subordinate to the secular “community.” This is the clear teaching of the New Testament. No man can serve two Masters, and my Master is Christ, through His Church.

      *That* is the community I’m subordinate to.

    • John Jakubczyk

      Having been in the pro-lie movement for 32 years I know a little bit about elections and voting.There is a time and a place for ‘purity” in expressing your position. fro example, during a primary election, supporting the pure candidate may be the prudent thing so as to show the power and strength of a bloc. Then one leverages that support if the candidate fails to win in getting something from the victor in order to support him in the general. Sometimes when the pro-life vote is or could be split, one must make a judgment and get behind one candidate in order for the pro-life side to prevail.

      However in a general election a vote for the third party candidate will result in a victory for the enemy. Recall 1992. Ross Perot gets 175 of the general vote, denying Bush I his second term. Clinton wins with 42% of the vote. Clinton revoked the pro-life executive orders, put on two pro-abortion justices, vetoed the partial birth abrtion ban and scandalized the White House. During his presidency 12 million babies died.

      Voting for John McCain may not get you everything you want. But his being in the White House will allow us to continue our efforts to change the culture – no easy task. He will support adoption, support cutting off funding of pro-abortion groups, pick judges who are not going to take away our rights while creating perverse ones for deviants. As for the ESCR issue, with all the advancements in science, that issue will be yesterday’s news.

      So I ask you not to throw away your precious vote on someone who is not going to win, is marginal nd who cannot wage an effective campaign. every day pray for John McCain and in November cast your vote with those who want to end the killing and protect unborn children.

    • daniel

      Sorry John, I can’t in conscience vote for someone who supports the Iraq war. McCain definitely is not pro-life. We have committed and continually commit homicide by our unjust invasion and occupation of Iraq. McCain is just as bad as Obama. Homicide and infanticide are one and the same, murder. Killing babies and killing Iraqis (who have done nothing to us) are the same, murder.

    • JC

      John, whether I vote for McCain depends upon who his running mate is (I strongly suspect it will be Brownback). However, your “practical politics” approach to the pro-life movement is why we’ve consistently lost for 30+ years, to the extend that some “pro-lifers” can actually applaud a decision like _Gonzalez v. Carhart_.

      This gets just to my point in my previous point. Your concern is about political victories. Your concern should be about spiritual victories.

      John Paul II addressed this issue long ago in _Evangelium Vitae_, and said very clearly that we vote for the *most* pro-life candidate, regardless of whether that candidate is popular or “likely to win.” We’re supposed to trust God to do the rest.

    • John Jakubczyk

      Daniel,
      With all due respect to your person, you obviously have not been involved in any pro-life work or you would not compare the Iraqi conflict to abortion.
      First there is a difference between what Obama want s to continue – the senseless killing of unborn children, the requirement that you and I pay for abortions through universal health care, the promotion of such racist organizations such as Planned Parenthood, and the goal of John McCain as it relates to the Iraqi conflict. McCain wants to end the fighting and has the prudential judgment to know that simply leaving now will only escalate the violence and bloodshed. Stopping the enemy will actually saves lives in the long run. Now regardless of the wisdom of those who decided the incursion was needed to address the perception created by Saddam Hussain that he had weapons of mass destruction, and the suffering of the Iraqi people at his bloody hands, we have to deal with the current situation. Finally on your point that we are there killing Iraqis, you slander our fine military who are there to liberate a people who have known what oppression is about. I have represented people from Iraq and to a man they thank the U.S. for liberating their countrymen. They told me of the corruption of the French and German interests there. Again John McCain is dealing with the present and wants victory because that is the only thing that the radical jihadists understand. Study your history. Radical Islam has been at war with the West since 632 A.D.

      J.C.
      I am reminded of More who taught us that God gave us our wits and we should be wise to uses them. I want to end the killing and totally completely and forever. I always knew what the PBA ban was about – a way to show how extreme the pro-aborts were. I will support every effort to stop the killing and have done so to the best of my poor and weak abilities since 1975.

      Everything begins with prayer. Yet God not call us just to pray. Ora et labora. Pray and Work.

      As for Sam Brownback, he is a good man and I supported him in the primary and wished the rest of my pro-life comrades would have done so. But Sam is supporting John McCain. And I give credit to Sam for his judgment and conclude that if Sam can Support John McCain,those of us inthe movemtn should take that decision seriously as we weigh our options.

      And what are they? Vote for a pro-abortion extremist? Vote for a 3rd party guy who will lose and therefore elect the pro-abortion extremist. Or…

      Vote for a candidate with a 25 year pro-life voting record,who has been endorsed by Sam Brownback and leaders in the pro-life movement, and has committed to working with us to end Roe v Wade’s “reign of terror.”

      Please think about the opportunity versus the alternative. Thank you.

    • Daniel

      Well you are very very much mistaken John. I am very much active in the pro-life movement. You obviously have a big bias politically to the Republicans so as to rationalize the evil they and our country have done in Iraq. Our military is fine. The military just follows the orders it has been given by their lawful superiors. With your argument of liberating Iraq, then we should be liberating at least 2 dozen other countries right now. Why are we not liberating them? Have you thought of that?

      How would you feel if other countries think that our country needs to be liberated and then invades us? Have you ever thought of that? We certainly need to be liberated. Many of our bishops don’t follow the Pope. Many of us practice abortion. Many of us are racists. Many of us are homosexuals. So it may be good that other countries liberate us.

      I can only pray for your enlightenment.

      God bless you. God bless America.

    • John Jakubczyk

      Daniel,
      You assume wring. You do not know what my original attitude was toward invading Iraq, only that I understand how the decision was made and once made, there are consequences which do not allow us to simply pick up and leave. Even Obama knows that – although he’ll never tell his base. Now What I object to is comparing the conflict with the wholesale slaughter of the innocents. Since you state you are involved in the pro-life movement, you must realize that Obama would be a disaster to he cause. McCain wants to end the war but on terms that are going to limit the future damage Al-Quaida and the terrorists can cause. do you remember when they were beheading innocent victims on television for all the world to see? Are these the kind of people one can deal with rationally? If history has taught us anything, ti is this: those who seek to engage in terror to get their ends only understand power. Like it or not, they only respect and respond to force. If you are stronger than they are, they will back off. Otherwise, not only do they not have any respect for you, but they will slaughter you without any thought to the contrary.

      As for other countries, it is my opinion that the US should have done something to stop the genocide in Rwanda, that what is going on in Darfur is unconscionable, that the US has done a poor job of communicating the need for international intervention in many locales where human rights violations are happening every day.
      Where Iraq may be considered in a different light, one considers the 11 year “truce” since the end of hostilities after the first war, the failure of the Saddam regime to respond to the U.N. directives, the failure of Saddam to act in his own best interest, and the corruption in the food for oil program that was compromising U.n action. Hindsight is 20/20. But had the U.S. not made certain blunders, all of this might be academic. I am only looking at a way to end the conflict once and for all.

      By the way, I am not an apologist for the Republicans. Those who know me will attest to my criticism of their actions both in Congress and at the White House. But I am also not going cut off my nose to spite my face. On our issue, John McCain is strongly pro-life. Even on ESCR he is moving our way. He is communicating with our leaders and appreciates the difficult work being done by the pro-life movement. While Obama will work to destroy us, he will allow us to build upon the work already done.

    • Corey Mehlos

      Hey all,

      I appreciate you sharing your honest views and while I don’t share them all, I believe they’re important to this conversation.

      I’d like to respond to a couple points as charitably as possible. So if you promise not to box me in as a radical liberal, I’ll try not to label you as well.

      John,

      You make a good point about Perot being the spoiler in the 1992 race; however, even though I’m not a fan of President Clinton, I’m careful about calling someone my enemy even if his decisions as president may have impacted the loss of many lives, which I’m not sure of, and, if true, this outcome would unfortunately would be shared by other presidents as well.

      Joe H,

      Thanks for your feedback and drawing my attention to the Pregnant Women Support Act. I think you have a good point that local outreach is important. There’s a Church 20 minutes from where I live that collects funds for support of pregnant women contemplating abortion. It’s not the law of the land but the law of the heart that has compelled them to do it.

      On a larger point, I think ideologies and abstract statistics can sometimes detract from the problems in our own community. I’m living in Milwaukee for instance and have been going door-to-door for Senator Obama’s campaign to meet my neighbors and ask them what’s important to them. It’s a pretty poor neighborhood and many of them don’t have jobs and surprisingly, our conversation turns to non-political in the ideological sense but deeply political (how I define it as a personal connection, organizing community-members toward the highest good). I don’t know if I’ve helped (I’ve been able to listen to a disabled mother of six who’s struggling to pay the bills and got some info. on a ged for a young father who has two kids of his own and no job).

      To be quite honest, one of the biggest reasons I’m supporting Sen. Obama is because this is the kind of work he’s done. As you all have probably heard by now, he organized in Chicago for several years so when people talk about experience, I consider my own experience doing this on a small scale and I know that this can be an EXPERIENCE in the most powerful and meaningful way.

      Well, I don’t think the only solution is to elect Sen. Obama; in my view, I think that he, more than any other candidate, has seen and heard the other side of politics from the streets of Chicago. I understand that many of you consider abortion to be a moral imperative. If you think you have a way to curtail it, then I encourage you to act on it as I’m trying to do addressing the needs of those in my own neighborhood. The laws of our heart are powerful and sometimes can take us beyond where the laws of the land can go but ultimately, I do believe that they can coalesce together if we’re faithful to our calling and to the Gospel.

      Feel free to add further thoughts.

      Thanks,

      Corey

    • John Jakubczyk

      Corey,
      Be more specific. You post suggests that because you have worked to organize those who are poor, you have an understanding of what Obama did when he was in Chicago. Well what did he do? And once he was elected to the State Legislature, what did he do to protect human life, and especially unborn human life? The answer is – nothing. His record is very thin, except fro his constant support for abortion. He has embraced a culture of death and the tragedy is that this position of his causes more deaths to children of his own race than all the violence and mayhem in the ghettos.

      Now when i was younger I worked as a janitor and in construction .I worked every day with people known collectively as the working poor. They did not want abortion. They did not want Planned Parenthood. They wanted respect. they wanted opportunity. They wanted a chance to do for themselves. I remember one co-worker so proud that her son had graduated high school. so when Obama tells people he worked as a community organizer, I can ask – what did he do? And why is it that what he did warrants your vote? After all, why is his claim to fame so important? Because he gained the support of the Chicago politicians? Because he bested Hillary? Because he talks real smooth? What does he really say?

      Corey, the fellow you ae supporting thinks killing babies is not a big deal. He does not want a law to stop it. so why do we even have laws? Look, the guy went to law school at Harvard. He ought to know the reason for law. Why should he not want to protect the little child?

      If he truly cares about the poor, he would oppose Planned Parenthood. He is aware of the racist origins of the largest abortion profiter in the history of the world.

      I suggest you read Deal’s article on the issue of infanticide. Corey, Obama supports the use of infanticide to address medical decisions. He was instrumental in stopping the bill in his Senate committee.

    • Elise B.

      As a visitor from your northern border I cannot have a say in your elections, but I am totally in accord with your position on abortion and politicians. We have the same problem in Canada.
      However, on the subject of “Muslim terrorists” and the fact that they will be afforded lawyers, I believe this is simply a matter of justice. Every person accused of a crime should be entitled to a defence in court. A man cannot be called “terrorist” until it has been proven in Court that he is one. Holding people in captivity without benefit of a fair trial, on mere presumption of guilt, is not worthy of a democratic country.

    • Corey Mehlos

      Hi John,

      Thanks for your note. In response to your question, Senator Obama worked for three years working in the Altgeld projects with 20 churches on Chicago’s south side where he dug into community issues such as aesbestos removal from project housing. If you’re interested, here’s more: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070416/moberg.

      I think that’s cool that you worked as a janitor and construction; it’s good, honest, work.

      I read Mr. Hudson’s article. Correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Hudson claims that Senator Obama is morally responsible because his decision endorses a mother’s decision to terminate her child. It seems Senator Obama’s response was, as Deal points out, that voting otherwise would implicitly undermine Roe through a liberal use of the Equal Protection Clause. Moreover, he argures that such legislation is unnecessary since it’s a doctor’s job to prevent a live child, anyways, and that there was no evidence that what was alleged actually was occuring in hospitals.

      As for Senator Obama’s alleged lack of commitment to fighting poverty by his support of Planned Parenthood, I don’t quite follow. I don’t understand the link between Planned Parenthood and poverty, much less racism. Perhaps you can explain.

      I do agree that poverty is linked with infanticide. In fact, I was talking today with a friend who’s studying ethnography from the 19th century and has found that the infant mortality rate, ages 0-6, for persons in low socio-economic communities with poor sanitation (and hence an increased likelihood for disease) in the 21st century is almost identical to the 19th century infant mortality rate for newly immigrated communities, and is comparable with the contemporary rates in the third world. This is why I believe access to health care and distribution of resources is important not only to the problem of infanticide but to the pro-life issue in it’s fullness.

      Whereas I acknowledge that Senator Obama’s vote on abortion legislation such as BAIP (at this point I still have to learn more about it, from both perspectives, before I understand it and make a judgment) is potentially cause for concern, I also find that making a judgment on a social issue such as abortion and/or poverty based on one test case and from one perspective can be misleading. It seems to me that such issues involve multiple factors, many of which I admittedly am not fully informed of; indeed, I learn more every day. So I’ll look closer into Senator Obama’s voting record on abortion-related issues and his rationale for his decisions. Thanks for your feedback and continued dialogue.

      Yours,

      Corey