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  • Biting the Bullet: Military Conscription and the Price of Citizenship

    by Francis X. Maier

     

    A tip to travelers: Avoid Zekistan. It has crummy tourist amenities and lethal concentrations of lead.
    I found this out back in June, patrolling one side of a city street in the country’s capital. I was hunting for fedayeen with Alpha Team, a stick of four light infantry troopers. Across the street, Bravo Team did the same, commanded by the Evolver, a buddy who had logged in from San Francisco. They hugged a wall as they moved.

    At the corner, Bravo came under fire from a machinegun nest fortified behind a collapsed wall. The Evolver radioed for help, and I dropped a smoke grenade in front of the nest to screen his team’s movement. Bravo sprinted across an intersection to flank the machine gun, ending up in the sights of another concealed gunman.

    With Bravo pinned down, I led Alpha Team across the street, behind steel garbage containers and tangles of rubble, and around a back alley. I now had a clean shot at the gunman from the rear. But just as he was about to meet Mohammed, a guy with a rocket launcher, three stories up in a building behind me, shared it with my entire team. Game over.

    “Zekistan,” of course, doesn’t actually exist. And Full Spectrum Warrior is just another video game — but not really. The first in a new wave of “first-person thinker” games, Full Spectrum Warrior began life as an alarmingly accurate U.S. Army training tool. Soldiers move, fire, and react as they do in real combat. Ammunition runs low. Soldiers must lug wounded comrades to the nearest aid station before they bleed out, frequently under fire. Macho, blast-’em-up tactics get a player very dead very fast. Instead, the game rewards planning, careful movement, a focused use of force, and team coordination. Even the troopers’ language is, well, realistic.

    Simulations have a long military history. Back in the early 1990s, attending West Point, my eldest son crewed a virtual Abrams tank in a fast-moving, battalion-sized armored battle involving more than 150 networked computers. Today the Army’s simulated battlefields have vastly more detail and a realism approaching that of The Matrix. But they also show a shift in the focus of combat training.

    “With [Full Spectrum Warrior] the Army decided that it needed to think less about educating people on the physics of artillery tubes,” says Jim Korris, creative director of the Institute for Creative Technologies (ICT), “and start teaching them how to make smart discriminations very quickly in close urban fights — training in cognitive decision — making rather than skills.”

    ICT, which developed Full Spectrum Warrior with Army guidance and funding, offers a number of “tactical decision aids” that open a window on the landscape of warfare in the 21st century. It’s a world called MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain), with very different rules and needs from anything the American military imagined during the Cold War. It’s a world where Trident missiles mean very little. “Boots on the ground” mean everything. Say goodbye to mobile tank battles. Say hello to Black Hawk Down. As one Marine infantry officer, fresh from the Middle East, said as he watched a Full Spectrum Warrior firefight, “That’s the way it was in Iraq.”

     

    The Challenges of Modern Warfare

    Two years before the 1993 battle in Mogadishu that sparked Mark Bowden’s book and Ridley Scott’s film, military historian Martin van Creveld published The Transformation of War. Brief but prophetic, van Creveld’s premise was simple: “[T]oday, the most powerful modern armed forces are largely irrelevant to modern war — indeed [their] relevance stands in inverse proportion to their modernity.”
    How is that possible? Weapons never develop in a vacuum. They help shape our ideas about war and the ways we need to fight it. But weapons themselves also derive from those ideas. Modern Western armies draw heavily on the experience of tank and artillery warfare, rapid maneuver, nuclear deterrence, and strategic bombing of the last century. To trim friendly casualties, they try to kill the enemy from as far away as possible. As a result, they depend on technology. But that same technology slants military thinking in some directions and blinds it to others. It also devours precious resources and breaks down more often as battlefields become harsh, dense, and chaotic.

    Thus, Israeli tanks failed to win control of the heavily built-up areas of Lebanon in 1982. German bombing helped the Stalingrad defenders in 1942 by creating an ocean of rubble. And a small band of urban rebels easily beat a much larger and technologically advanced — but also slow and heavy — Russian force in the first battle of Grozny in 1994-95.

    For van Creveld, modern regular forces are often useless in fighting today’s wars precisely because they depend so much on technology. “[B]etween maintenance and logistics and sheer administration,” he argues, “[the] number of troops in their ‘tails’ will be far too large, and the number in the fighting ‘teeth’ far too small.”

    In lay terms, the leadership structures and battle methods of modern armies are just too clumsy. They can’t deal with light, quick, street insurgents in the cities of the Third World. But by 2010, 75 percent of the world’s population will be jammed into urban areas. So for any power with global interests — notably the United States — that poses a problem.

    Much of the combat in World War II, Korea, and even Vietnam was fought horizontally by large units for the control of resources and territory. Urban warfare is profoundly vertical. It flows up into office buildings and down into sewers, cellars, and subways. It’s also a manpower hog. Street combat demands large numbers of light, agile, well-trained and well-disciplined infantry. Fighting devolves to the squad level — up-close and compartmentalized. It causes high casualties. It drains soldiers emotionally and physically. It demands special gear like knee and elbows pads and eye protection from exploding masonry in firefights. The enemy is rarely obvious. Command and control easily break down. Urban structures interfere with radios. Sanitation is bad, so septic threats increase. The civilian population limits air and artillery support.

    In such circumstances, Machiavelli’s dictum that war should be “short and sharp” no longer seems to apply. It’s no wonder that van Creveld says that, “like a man who has been shot in the head but still manages to stagger forward a few paces, conventional war may be at its last gasp.” And it’s also no wonder that the key concept driving U.S. military thought since the mid-1990s has been “transformation.” According to Douglas Johnson, a 30-year Army veteran and now a research professor in national security affairs at the U.S. Army War College, the Army “is undergoing an unbelievable change, the biggest change since the First World War,” struggling to address a “[fundamental] design problem and get agile.”

     

    The Increasing Need

    But there’s a dilemma. As historian Niall Ferguson and others have pointed out, the United States is a global power with a chronic manpower shortage. That has become brutally clear in Iraq. In 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War, the Army had 1,570,343 active-duty personnel. By 1984, that number had dropped to 780,180. During the First Gulf War the ranks dipped to 710,821; then to 610,450 at the start of the Clinton administration. In 2005, fighting an insurgency with far less international help than in 1991, U.S. Army active-duty personnel number 494,000 — 40 percent fewer than the First Gulf War — with 212,000 in the Army Reserve and several hundred thousand more in the National Guard.

    With too few troops and a war taking longer than expected, guess who’s gone from a strategic reserve to an operational force? Until recently, roughly half of the Army National Guard was on active duty or on alert for possible service. This has “upset the traditional understanding of the Reserve and Guard,” according to Thomas Donnelly, resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute for defense and national security issues. “Most Reservists and Guard members signed up assuming they’d be activated only for extraordinary circumstances and then only for a limited time.” Now they’re engaged in an ongoing war zone, and people are coming home dead. In that context, the October 2004 incident where reservists in Iraq refused to drive a fuel convoy on a dangerous mission was only a matter of time.

    The manpower shortfall explains why Senator John Kerry invoked the draft boogeyman during the 2004 election campaign, and why President Bush quickly promised not to bring it back. But it’s an obvious question: In the face of military need, why not have a draft?

    With nearly 300 million people, the United States has a vast manpower pool. Despite the Bush administration’s commitment not to reinstate the draft, senior officials of the Selective Service System and the Pentagon did study ways of revamping conscription as recently as 2003. Discussions involved stretching the maximum required draft registration age from 25 to 34 years old, including women for the first time, and identifying registrants with critical skills for specialized military and government service.

    In a February 11, 2003, proposal to key defense officials, the Selective Service System reviewed 30 years of U.S. draft registration planning and argued that, “in line with today’s needs [and] the Selective Service System’s structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory” of registrants of both sexes available for conscription to fill urgent national security, health, and community needs. Pentagon officials have, thus far, not accepted the proposal.

    At its best, military conscription — either alone or as part of a larger system of mandatory universal service — builds national unity, levels ethnic and social differences, and forces young people to invest a piece of their lives in the duties of citizenship. “You don’t value what doesn’t cost you,” one former Army officer said in the course of researching this story. Nothing important, including maturity, comes cheaply. So it is in families, friendships, work — and, arguably, in coming of age as a citizen. Thus Congressman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) argued for “a national universal draft that includes women with no exemption” except to allow students to finish high school.

    It’s also why Air Force Academy and Kennedy School of Government graduate and author David Englin believes that “military service would strengthen our social fabric by bringing the reality of America closer to America’s ideals.” In his view, a draft would also make reckless military adventures less likely because of their immediate cost in blood to average American families.

    Englin, a past Kerry supporter and American Prospect/New Republic liberal, chides Democrats for their negative misconceptions about the nature of the U.S. military and the value of conscription. He argued in 2002 that “military service has always been a great equalizer, and there is intrinsic democratic value to making young adults from every corner of America and from all walks of life train together, serve together and depend on one another as brothers and sisters in arms.”

     

    A Firm ‘No’

    But resistance to the draft comes from unexpected quarters.

    I was a participant in the Army War College’s weeklong National Security Seminar in 2003. I raised the question of a draft with the dozen or so rising officers in my seminar group who will one day populate the Army’s general grade. Nobody liked the idea. Most felt that unwilling conscripts create more problems than they solve. The memory of Vietnam — fighting an unpopular war with unhappy draftees on short tours of duty, 10,000 miles from home — remains vivid in the military.

    “The Israeli and Swiss conscription models are successful for unique reasons,” one infantry colonel said. “For the Israelis, universal service is a matter of national survival. With the Swiss, you have four different language groups and a tradition of neutrality. Conscription is a glue for their national identity.” But neither the Israeli nor the Swiss situation applies to the United States. And many European governments have been moving away from conscription in recent years.

    For Thomas Donnelly of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), citizen-soldiers do have value as a strategic reserve in time of national emergency. But a mixed conscript/volunteer Army would “devalue the tactical competence” of everyone involved. Combat in places like Iraq and Afghanistan is “real soldiering” that requires well-trained, disciplined, motivated, professional troops. “Sending conscripts to patrol the streets of Kabul would be a recipe for disaster,” he says.

    Donnelly’s view fits well with a recently deactivated member of the elite 101st Air Assault Division. “There’s a reason Claymore mines have the words, ‘This side toward enemy’ stamped on the front,” he said. “Too many grunts are lunkheads, and conscripts would make it worse.” In principle, he supports the idea of military service as an obligation of citizenship. But he also finds the prospect of large numbers of under-educated, under-motivated, minimally trained people, armed to the teeth with lethal weapons, “scary — I wouldn’t want them anywhere near me.”

    Douglas Johnson of the Army War College remembers his own mixed experiences with draftees as an officer. “In combat you spend a lopsided amount of your time dealing with the problem children — the guys who mess things up for everybody else,” he says. “And the way you usually solve the problems is by sending them to work in the rear, not for their own sake but to protect the good men in the forward areas. But what does that do? It pollutes your rear area with a higher number of the dregs. So the guys who are supporting and supplying your best men are disproportionately your worst, which endangers everybody.”

    Johnson feels that the Army’s current manpower shortages are partly real and partly an echo of December 1944. “We reached a point around the Battle of the Bulge,” he says, “where it became clear that we had total air superiority, and we’d had it for a long time. We had too many ground-based anti-aircraft units, and we needed more infantry. So we disbanded some of the anti-aircraft units and reconfigured them into infantry.” Some of the same “combing out” of the Army’s force structure is happening now. The difficulty of “combat in [Iraq's] cities isn’t really the problem” for U.S. forces, Johnson believes. Rather, “we need a better system of supply” to sustain the men doing the fighting.
    Maybe, and maybe not. In a sense, supply problems seem to confirm van Creveld’s thesis that modern armies have tails too long and teeth too few. “In the jungles of Vietnam, the mountains of Afghanistan and the closed, heavily populated Lebanese countryside,” he wrote, “forces on foot were often as mobile tactically as their mechanized opponents. They were also much better able to make use of the terrain, with the result that it was always the conventional forces who were pinned down or blown up.”

    According to one veteran infantryman, van Creveld’s premise is borne out again and again at the Army’s Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC). Theoretically, every Army light infantry brigade spends a month on a regular basis at JRTC honing its combat skills, with ten days “in the box” — simulated battle ranging from search-and-destroy missions to defense to urban combat.

    Facing them is a battalion of OPFOR (opposing force) soldiers comprised of specially trained U.S. paratroopers. “The OPFOR guys operate as irregulars, usually in teams of four to ten,” said the veteran, “and they cut the brigades to pieces every time, just completely slaughter them. The urban combat phase is harrowing. They’re the most hated guys in the Army.”

    The need to maintain some level of strategic and heavy conventional forces is unlikely to go away any time soon. But in a world where the rules of war have clearly changed, the United States is faced with two different problems: reconfiguring our armed forces to fight successfully a new kind of war in a new kind of environment and sustaining the forces that actually do the fighting. The former is — so the Army believes — at least under way. The latter is much more ambiguous.

    At the moment, both Donnelly and Johnson agree that we need more boots on the ground. Both also agree that a draft can’t accomplish what we really need to achieve. We don’t simply need more boots — we need the right kind of people wearing those boots. Donnelly believes that “for the foreseeable future, recruiting a larger Army is mainly a matter of Congress choosing to spend more money” to get the size and quality of the volunteer force we need. Johnson sees two options for the world’s only superpower: We can approve larger forces and then be willing to pay for them, or we can disengage and retire from some of our global commitments.

    We can do one or the other, in Johnson’s view. We can’t avoid both.

     

    The Utility of Conscription

    And what about that unsettling Selective Service System proposal still floating around from 2003?

    One line has remained with me ever since reading Mark Bowden’s book, Black Hawk Down: “[E]very enemy advertises his weakness in the way he fights. To Aidid’s fighters, the Rangers’ weakness was apparent. They were not willing to die.” Events, of course, proved the opposite. The Rangers in Mogadishu’s Bakara Market fought with now-legendary heroism against enormous odds. But do such men represent the character of the nation at large? I don’t think so.

    I avoided the draft in 1970 through a medical deferment. Was it legitimate? Yes. Did I do everything I could to enhance my case in getting it? You bet. Looking back over the decades, do I feel good about not serving? No. Nothing in my medical record would have finally barred me from joining the military if I’d wanted to. I didn’t.

    I never really believed that the Vietnam War was — at its root — immoral. I just didn’t want to fight in it. And while I did know fellow students at Notre Dame who had reflected deeply on the war and felt it was wrong, too many of my classmates were just like me — eager to avoid the military, whatever it took, and get on with their careers. The anti-war vocabulary of the day offered a pleasing gloss to our self-deception. It also worked pretty well with the chicks.

    My point is this, and it echoes Niall Ferguson’s insight in Colossus: America is an empire in denial. We want the benefits of hegemony without admitting to it and without being willing to pay for it in the blood and resources that global power requires. The moral break between World War II’s “greatest generation” and the generation — my generation — that now runs the country is the truculent self-absorption that has shaped our entire culture since Vietnam. I helped create this. So did a lot of other people my age who haven’t fessed up to it and never will — from ex-presidents on down.

    The armed forces personnel fighting and dying in Iraq today imply more good things about our nation than we may deserve. I support mandatory, universal, national service — including a military draft — because we need it. Not because of its military utility — the experts can argue about that — but because of its moral utility. We need it the way a drunk needs a cold shower.

    To mean anything, citizenship must have a cost in personal sacrifice for the common good. Yes, I know, it’s easy to say that in hindsight. But it doesn’t make it any less true. A nation is only as good as the ideals its people are willing to live for, defend, and — if necessary — die for. By that standard, the United States is in trouble, and it’s a problem no amount of Army transformation alone can solve.

    The views expressed by the authors and editorial staff are not necessarily the views of
    Sophia Institute, Holy Spirit College, or the Thomas More College of Liberal Arts.

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    • Ender

      I support mandatory, universal, national service — including a military draft — because we need it.

      I think there may be merit in some form of mandatory service so long as it doesn’t include conscripting people into the military who really don’t want to be there. The problems encountered in Viet Nam and the experience with the reservists in Iraq who refused a dangerous mission should make it apparent that you don’t want to put individuals at risk who didn’t volunteer to be there in the first place. The experiences with conscripts in WWII will not be repeated.

      The problem now, however, is not a shortage of volunteers but the lack of a Congressional mandate to expand the size of our military. Until that changes, mandatory national service will make no difference in addressing the problems Maier described.

    • Joe H

      We don’t ‘need’ a large army, maybe we don’t ‘need’ to be an empire, maybe we only ‘need’ to be prepared to defend ourselves.

      That is the real difference between Israel/Switzerland on the one hand and the US on the other.

      IF we had a policy like the Swiss – neutrality; IF we had a situation like Israel, constantly under attack by neighbors, under such conditions I might support a draft for a citizens militia or even the regular armed forces.

      But I will never fight and die for the profit margins of the military-industrial complex. War in America, as Marine general Smedley Butler said, is a racket. I want no part of the racket. I don’t believe in imperial expansion or imperial power. I don’t believe in pre-emptive warfare. I don’t believe in the Project for a New American Century. So thanks, but no thanks.

      And I’m sorry if my appraisal if the real purpose of the US military offends anyone. I have no issue with the soldier that follows orders, but I would hope that either before or after, as a citizen and as many other soldiers have done, they question the motives of their government. Blind obedience is not a virtue.

    • Joe H

      I completely agree with the last paragraphs – I just don’t think we need mandatory service to do it. How about doing as many Popes have suggested and sacrificing some of our wealth, not insisting we have a divine right to living standards that always increase? How about we focus on cooperative economic models and incentives to good citizenship?

    • Micha Elyi

      I completely agree with the last paragraphs – I just don’t think we need mandatory service to do it.

      I’m puzzled about how you reconcile your agreement with “To mean anything, citizenship must have a cost in personal sacrifice for the common good,” with your denial that mandatory service is needed to accomplish that, Joe H.

      How about doing as many Popes have suggested and sacrificing some of our wealth, not insisting we have a divine right to living standards that always increase?

      Because those “many Popes” may be infallible when teaching faith and morals but they’ve not been proven competent as economists, enterprisers, or even streetcorner vendors.

      As for the claim about “a divine right to living standards that always increase,” I only hear Leftists jealous of the living standards of others claim that “we” have such a belief. Those of us outside the Left may believe that we have a right “endowed by our Creator” to “the pursuit of happiness” but we do not claim a right to happiness itself. By the way, if anyone’s politics depends upon insisting on a “divine” or automatic “right” to “living standards that always increase,” look to the modern adherents of various strains of Marx’s socialist materialism. Their quasi-religious belief in a “right to living standards that always increase” shows up in their demands for rising payouts from a Welfare State.

      How about we focus on cooperative economic models and incentives to good citizenship?

      I’d sure like that. Unfortunately, the people opposed to cooperative trade between buyers and sellers along with the people who have a thing for coveting their neighbor’s goods (d’ya think the Pope could preach on that some more?) try to impede economic cooperation and good citizenship.

    • Matt F

      I’d be all for a draft it didn’t include our daughters…

      or our sons getting their asses shot off while Europe sits on hers. Defense of the nation is fine but our kids get killed defending everybody else. It IS a racket. Preemptive warfare?
      The Chinese are saying to themselves, “We would never have gotten away with that crap.”

      Somalia? Our kids have to lock and load every time some piss ant warlord on the other side of the planet is feeling froggy?

      NATO? You want your kids coming home in a bag because Grudgistan invaded Smakistan?

      Hard to support a draft until we have a sane foreign policy.

    • Joe H

      Micha,

      Economic activity is moral activity. Aside from the fact that cooperative economics has and does work (there are thousands of examples worldwide – people erroneously assume that an economic system must be adapted by a whole country in order to even have a claim to existence), the Popes do not measure the validity of an economic system by its quantitative results.

      I’m sorry you take such a dim view of the social teaching of the Church. But still, you are now hearing someone who is not a leftist (I don’t call myself one anyway), a Marxist or a socialist materialist saying that our living standards are too high.

      Do you think John Adams and the other founding fathers steeped in classical republicanism, with its utter, undisguised contempt for luxury, with its sumptuary laws, were also distant pre-cursors of Marxism? The political tradition upon which this country is founded regarded luxury as corrosive to good citizenship, not as a sign that a nation had been blessed by God.

      The point here is how to create good citizens, is it not? What makes you think classical economics or neo-classical economics or any other fashionable model will ever produce good citizens? Economics has never been concerned with good citizenship, it has been concerned with efficiency and productivity. Economics is not political theory. And ‘happiness’ is not the limitless pursuit of pleasure, but rather a state of virtue and wholeness in the classical sense.

      Unfortunately THAT part of the American political heritage is trampled underfoot by the slavish devotees of Mammon and his promises on the left and the right, of big government and big business respectively. In this society we are consumers first and citizens at a distant second. When self-sufficiency and local autonomy were driven out of economic life so was any meaningful concept of citizenship. A draft in this decadent society would bear a greater resemblance to the press-gangs of imperial Britain than the citizens militias of the Italian city states or some other romantic ideal.

    • Matt F

      Joe says it prettier than me but…

      As a veteran I began to pay close attention to any “presidential address” but I never had to quell the urge to puke as when I was referred to by Bush as “the American Consumer”.

    • D.B.

      There is no manpower shortage in the military anymore. The economic collapse has ensured that for some time to come.

    • Donald R. McClarey

      The last thing our military wants or needs is a bunch of malcontented slackers being pushed on it through a draft. The volunteer military has been a success since we returned to it after Vietnam. Motivated men and women who want to be in the military make superb troops, while a draftee, usually, merely wants out. Some draftees end up making superb soldiers, Sergeant York for instance of World War I fame, but in our current “Me First” culture restoring the draft would be the death of the effectiveness of our forces.

    • Austin

      Yes, the draft would bring in a lot of people who don’t want to be there, thus personnel problems of a huge nature. it would also bring in the cream of the crop as well. Smart, upper middle class kids who would make outstanding soldiers who can “think on their feet.”

      Our attempt to create an Empire in the Middle East has resulted in a sort of draft where we have called up the National Guard and Reserves and sent some of them to multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. These people wanted to serve, but did not intend to serve 3 or 4 tours over there, dodging IED’s while an incompetent administration cannot seem to deal with the problems of occupation and pacification of a hostile people.

      Our Army would be just fine, if we knocked off all the Empire nonsense. Pat Buchanan’s book “A Republic not an Empire” hits the nail on the head. We cannot sustain a worldwide empire with multiple countries in the Middle East under a “hot” occuaption.

      I would not bring back the draft, it would create more problems than it would solve. So far as providing cannon fodder for our chickenhawk neo-con politicians, my answer is no. Did the Bush twins serve in the military? I don’t think so. That toxic buffoon sent other people’s children to die in an unnecessary war, but his did not.

      Mr. Maier is operating under the assumption that our current overextended empire is something to be sustained. It is not.
      Conduct an orderly withdraw from these third world cesspools and let other people fight their own battles. We cannot be the policeman for the world and it’s long past due that we stopped trying.

    • Patrick

      I agree totally with your comments on national service, but why revert to the military draft? The Services don’t need it, and don’t want it. The draft served a purpose when mass conscript armies were required; let it go now that we need highly-trained and motivated volunteers.
      Instead, we should have a variable-length, national service requirement due between the ages of 18 and 30. Citizens could simply enter their name and eligibility into a annual “draft” pool anytime within that age span and take an assignment: peace Corps, health services, youth services, etc. Or one could also volunteer for a specific vacancy to fulfill the obligation. If you do it earlier (say before you’re 21), its 9 months long. If you wait until you’re 30, its 18 months (sliding scale in between).
      This would create a large, talented pool of people to address some serious national challenges, and create a shared sense of identity.
      Oh, and if you enlist in the military, you receive a waiver.

    • Kurt

      The draft lowers the cost of warmongering for the state, thus the demand for warmongering will increase. No self-respecting Catholic should endorse such a vile institution.

      You know what strengthens the moral fiber of the nation? An intact family; the Catholic Faith! How about Catholics live their confirmation promise to be soldiers for Christ and win the nation for Him. Evangelization takes REAL courage, REAL dedication, REAL boot slogging and the result is the bearing of much fruit. Soldiering? What good comes of war? Death, destruction, scars that never heal, mars on the national honor, an overwhelming despair. War is a horror.

      Would that we all would stop tap dancing around the real issue, which is that we Catholics are more comfortable blogging it up, then taking to the streets and changing the world door-to-door. It is a dirty lie that such is not possible or likely to succeed, that its too naive a model of evangelization. It is the only way the world will be won.

    • D.B.

      Deploying National Guard and Reservists is not “a sort of draft.” Those National Guard and Reserve people knew what they were signing, and if they didn’t it is on them. I’m one of those Reservists you speak of, and I’ve been to Iraq.

      You know what I find galling and hilarious at the same time, those fools who call this an “illegal war” and then when they find out that a Veteran are within earshot or hear them with their diahrrea of the mouth, they are quick to say…”oh but we support the troops.” Ok…so if it is an illegal war, I guess that makes me a war criminal right? I enlisted knowing full well we were at war and that I would have to go…so if I’m not a war criminal, I guess that makes me an ignorant dupe…either way the person saying that stuff is a jackass, and would most likely get a boot in their 4th point of contact if not a full on stomping if they said it to the wrong person.

    • D.B.

      The Draft is not an institution, it is a method of increasing manpower.

    • Austin

      D.B.; Are you saying the Iraqi war was a good idea? Am I a fool for saying that it is an illegal or unjust war? You can support the troops and disagree with the Administration. Are you saying that anybody who thinks that the Iraqi War was a mistake should get a “boot in their 4th point of contact?” That would be very interesting to say the least.

      Do you think that George W Bush was a great president? If so, you are in dire need of good Psychiatric help. The man was a menace and sent thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis to their deaths for no reason. Is somebody going to give me a “full stomping” for saying so? The troops are not war criminals, they are honorable men and women, but their commander in chief was a liar and an armchair commando.

    • Arthur

      “I support mandatory, universal, national service — including a military draft — because we need it. Not because of its military utility — the experts can argue about that — but because of its moral utility.”

      It is a source of wonder that anyone could advocate the government depriving the young of their freedom on the basis of utility. And to assert that this would be moral cedes the government carte blanche for installing any sort of capricious tyranny.

      Besides, the notion that government servitude is national service is just absurd.

      A universal military draft can only be moral in the case of military utility to insure national security, nothing less. Myself and others accepted that arguably our compulsory service in Viet Nam was in the interest of national security. Compulsion on any other basis would have been considered slavery.

      It is hard to understand that one who admits to exercising the option of not serving is so eager to force government servitude on others. And based on such a flimsy and arbitrary excuse as that of moral utility.

    • I am not Spartacus

      I support mandatory, universal, national service — including a military draft — because we need it. Not because of its military utility — the experts can argue about that — but because of its moral utility

      Talk about a world turned upside down.

      I thought the idea was that those who serve in the Federal Government were volunteers who desired to serve we citizens in America so why would we citizens want those volunteers to be given the power to force us to serve them in foreign countries?

      This idea is so crazy that I almost wish that I was of draft age so I could volunteer to be a draft resister.

    • mike

      A draft may be necessary in the future. This is not out
      of the question. Under FDR in WW2 we drafted, during the
      Civil War, Lincoln drafted. Why?
      Both instances were a matter of national survival and
      required immediate response. Today, with nuclear weapons and
      the missiles to deliver them in the hands of North Korea,
      Iran, and Red China, we need an armed forces backed by
      industry and technology to be be ready to deter and fight
      such threats. Iraq was formerly one such threat.
      If our country or this world is ever is in a death
      struggle, such as in WW2, or the civil war and 9-11,
      then it may be necessary to draft. It is a matter of
      accepting that the enemy is real and does intend to destroy
      us. That enemy includes communists, nazis, and radical
      religious extremists. Please note the military complex our
      enemies developed and live by. If they did not have these
      military industrial complexes, we would not need ours.

    • D.B.

      ….every soldier and servicemember who fought or participated in it is immoral. This is a volunteer army, the “he had no choice, he was conscripted” doesn’t hold water in this day and age. I volunteered for the Army, knowing that President Bush was waging this war and that I would have to fight in it. What does that make me? Or any servicemember who volunteered after May 2003?

      My reasoning is this….the “I support the troops” mantra of the “illegal and immoral war” crowd is a facade, its bullshit…because if you think the argument through, “I support the troops” is hollow and illogical. If the war was truly, illegal and immoral….than I was at best a willing accomplice, and that makes me “immoral” too, right? Using terms like “immoral” and “illegal” will not make you friends among the military…and it certainly doesn’t sound like you’re “supporting the troops.” Because whether you intend it or not, your line of reasoning implies that we are dupes and pawns, which is insulting to say the least. A tactical blunder, sure….a mistake, ok….but “Illegal”…by who’s standards? “Immoral”?.

      You asked a question…..I will answer it. For good or ill, we are here….we have a mission to accomplish…and we’re going to do it. I don’t think President Bush was a great president…he wasn’t the worst we’ve had either. If you could see the progress we’ve made first hand…it is remarkable. Have you ever served in the military?

    • D.B.

      …I apologize for the brusqueness of my first post, and to you Austin…but understand: Soldiers hear talk like that, and what are they supposed to think? How does that boost morale? Will that help accomplish the mission? How is that “supporting” the troops? I want to rip the curtain away from all this…its a gut check, a call for intellectual honesty.

    • Kurt

      D.B.,

      When I said the draft is a vile institution, I use the word “institution” in my post to denote the concept called “the draft” which can be instituted, hence it is an institution; a better word would be implementation, I’ll grant you the point for semantics. I said the draft is vile.

      I won’t take the bait that you mean me to suggest “soldiering” is vile, with the attendant sentiment that I must be a pacifist, a Polly Anna, or an unpatriotic coward. No sir.

      Lets call a spade a spade, shall we? The draft coerces, potentially on pain of death, citizens onto the battlefield. So you have an infringement of the citizen’s liberty by his own government to protect the citizen’s liberty from being infringed by some other government. The draft is war slavery.

      When the enemy makes his way across the ocean or the border and kills everyone right up to my front door, well, then I will have seen with my own eyes that he is my enemy, and I’ll go from there. Until then, I choose not to kill or be killed.

    • Joe H

      A lot of Americans and even fellow Catholics support things I find to be immoral.

      But around soldiers, we are supposed to walk on egg-shells lest their delicate feelings be punctured by the slightest criticism of the war they fight in.

      That is yet another sign of the weakening of citizenship in this country, in fact. Along with being subordinated to consumerism, citizenship must also be self-regulated in the presence of the military. Criticism of policy, which is a basic right of every citizen, and something important enough to be protected by the very first amendment of the Constitution, is actually seen as ‘unpatriotic’, as if patriotism – contrary to what the founders and the classical theorists they drew inspiration from believed – was to be found solely in how slavish one is before ‘the troops’.

      I guess JP II didn’t support the troops either, or at least implied that Americans ought not support the troops in his opposition to the war. When I say I support the troops, I only mean I support their claims to what the government has promised them in return for their service. Beyond that, I don’t support the troops. I don’t support their mission or their C-in-C. They ARE pawns. Every soldier in every army in the world is a pawn, being moved around by generals who are being moved around by politicians, businessmen and bankers.

      Want to despise me for that? Fine. But there are plenty of soldiers, active, non-active, retired, injured, et. al. that also think this way. It isn’t a military vs. civilian mindset, its a ‘I’ve seen enough to know what a bunch of BS this is’ versus ‘I haven’t seen that yet’. Deal with your fellow soldiers first, and complain about citizens patriotically making use of their first amendment rights not later, but never.

    • Austin

      Note to D.B., yes I served in the military: I was an officer in the Marine Corps in Vietnam, 3rd Battalion, 9th Marines. I was discharged as a Captain. I know a little bit about the US military and I am not a leftist peacenik.

      Fine, perhaps he Iraqi war was not “illegal” but it was a mistake of historic dimensions, bordering on the US involvement in Vietnam. I have the greatest respect for our men and women in uniform, they do a difficult job under nasty conditions and do so with the utmost honor and integrity. And yes, they are volunteers not draftees.

      Why did we invade Iraq? Was it necessary? We now know that Bush and his armchair warrior neo-cons wanted to invade Iraq to establish a US base in the Persian Gulf, esablish a US “client state.” Saddam Hussein was not involved in 9/11 [but 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, did we invade Saudia Arabia?], there were no “weapons of mass destruction.” It was all a ploy to invade Iraq to establish US domination of the Persian Gulf region. The war was a mistake, a huge mistake. We did not need to invade and occupy Iraq. We went to war, when we did not have to.

      As far as supporting the troops go, are you aware of how Bush and his sorry little gang of REMF’s [you know who they are} screwed the wounded veterans, trying to cheat them out of disability payments, proper hospital and rehab care, etc?
      Soldiers and Marines maimed by IED explosions, and with brain damage, and the Army/Navy medical people tried to screw many of them out of the disability status they were due. Such a deal, send our troops into harms way for no reason and then when they are maimed, screw them six ways to Sunday. Bush and his REMF buddies also tried to scale down the veterans benefits as well.
      The man is a liar and a fraud and yes, he is the worst President we ever had, by far. This smirking frat boy who never heard a shot fired in anger, tried to bolster his macho image by getting us into a war we didn’t need to fight. “Mission accomplished” indeed.

      You can think whatever you want to think but the truth is the truth and everybody knows it. That lying REMF was a disaster.

    • Stephanus Mattheus

      I had a response typed for every comment on this post, but it was over the character limit and so could not be processed. That seriously reduces my enthusiasm.

      I will just point out that quite a bit of the comments have gone off topic, and further some of them do not particularly add to reasoned debate or discussion in any way.

      I must suggest that the question of compulsory national service or a draft is a question that needs to be looked at closely from a moral point of view. I am not at all convinced that it is a moral or just option.

      Further, while the draft has been used for a very long time in our history, it was not readily accepted when introduced. I would also be interested in exploring the question of the draft in our constitutional system. It seems there may be some issues with conflict with the principles of individual liberty and private property.

      I am also not convinced that our current system is just in the way it distributes the burdens of protecting our society.

    • Brian Saint-Paul

      I had a response typed for every comment on this post, but it was over the character limit and so could not be processed. That seriously reduces my enthusiasm.

      Hi Stephanus,

      We have a 5500 character limit, which is larger than any other site I’m aware of. However, I just raised it to 6500 characters. I’ve hit the limit myself a couple times and find that the best thing to do is break up the posts into separate responses.

    • Kurt

      It is safe to say that some joined the military for the wrong reason. Some joined because they thought they’d get a pay check, some thought they’d guarantee themselves a college education. Some even believed they’d be the one who “took down” bin Ladin. The right reason to join would have been, “I think I will do the most good with my life under God, by serving in the military.

      So they went down to the armory, took the ASVAB, went to MEPS, signed on the dotted line and in doing so signed their life and liberty away.

      They found out the voluntary army is voluntary up to the point that the dotted line is signed. Those who signed without full knowledge can be pitied or they can be found contemptible. Either way, they are there, and truth be told, nobody has full knowledge, so its a matter of degree, not of quality.

      Those contemptible folks who “support the troops” may wish that they come home soon, that they do not have their minds and bodies shattered, that they don’t have to shatter other minds and bodies. Here again, semantics, maybe “support” is the wrong word. Feel sorry for, worry about, hope the best for them because they, too, are human; maybe these are more accurate phrases, but they are not as pithy. Even the most ardent, yet tax-paying pacifist, when you get right down to it, supports the troops with taxes, whether they want to or not.

      To be intellectually honest, I have to say, believing these wars to be unjust, I would demand soldiers of good conscience to refuse unjust orders and suffer the consequences, just as I must deal with the welt on my fourth point of contact or worse, for holding my position.

      D.B., I want you to live, and to return intact, I want Iraqis to live and to remain intact. You may choose to never associate with me or respect me, but don’t touch my fourth point of contact.

    • Stephanus Mattheus

      Currently we have two concepts that shape much of our military policy, and a third worth mentioning.

      One of these is the All Volunteer Force. This was intended to produce a higher quality, more professional force with higher moral. It also facilitated the move to smaller but much better trained and equipped units. The All Volunteer Force also makes it easier to deploy active duty units as a political matter.

      The second concept is the Total Force. In essence, instead of looking at the Regular, Reserve, and Guard as three separate forces standing on their own, it would be viewed as a single force, with none of the parts expected to stand alone. This model moved many supporting functions into the Reserve and Guard units, and restructured the force so that a major long term deployment would involve calling up Reserve/Guard units. The front line combat units were concentrated in the active force, while civilian related specialties were concentrated in the reserves. This increased the competency of many units. However, its real purpose was to avoid a future Vietnam type problem with politicians committing to a politically unsustainable war. The military wanted to make sure it would only be sent when we actually were willing to do what was required to win. This increased the political cost of significant military deployments. Now many functions are also being given to DoD civilians and to contractors.

      The result is partially seen in the large number of small wars, police operations, contingencies, and the like during the 80s and 90s. These could be fought with the limited active forces with minimal political costs. On the other hand, pre 9/11 only the Gulf War required a truly major political commitment and large deployments of Guard and Reserve units.

      Another item is the old requirement that our military be capable of fighting two Major Theater Wars at once. The two MTW force level was a hold over from World War Two and also fit nicely with Cold War thinking. We have not had a credible ability to actually fight two MTWs since either a bit before or after the Gulf War depending on your views. Yet huge resources were spent on pretending to meet this requirement while also using the requirement to justify keeping the existing force structure.

    • Stephanus Mattheus

      I have often admired the historical ideal of a citizen militia. Today the Swiss may be one of the few nations that actually practices something like this. I don’t know if it is really possible or desirable today, but it is worth thinking about.

      If we look to both our history and current circumstances, I think we can say we must have some full time professional military forces. Particularly in the areas of the Navy, Air Force, and Special Operations I do not think a militia approach will really work. There are likely other fields that will require at least a small professional community to keep our abilities up to speed.

      On the other hand, most of the conventional ground forces and their support units could be shifted into the Guard and Reserve. However, these units would need to be replaced by 2 or 3 times more forces. The reason behind this is the need to give Guard and Reserve units enough time at home between training and deployments to still have a civilian life.

      Perhaps this should be taken a step further. At one time militia service was essentially mandatory for everyone of sound mind and body between certain ages. Perhaps we should require a term of service in a much expanded Guard and Reserves. This would allow for a force large enough to allow for true universal service instead of a draft lottery. It would also share the burden of defense more equitably. Further, it would decrease political willingness to make military commitments, but yet provide enough forces to be able to win once that commitment was made.

      Traditionally we as a nation have always been reluctant to have a large standing Army. Yet a Navy and Marine Corps were not a problem in peace time. Similarly today I think an active Air Force would also be needed (though perhaps not quite as large).

      So my vision of what this could look like: a very large National Guard/militia force comprising Army, Air, and naval units. Service in these forces would be required as a minimum, with perhaps a PeaceCorps/AmeriCorps option for objectors. Limited numbers of units would be on higher readiness, but still be Reserves. These units would be volunteer only. Further, such active forces as needed would also exist as a volunteer force. I suspect the largest active component would be the Navy followed by the Marine Corps or Air Force. The total size of the military would be much larger, but the active numbers would be much smaller.

      I think such a system would be compatible with liberty, justice, and our history. I also think it would favor limiting our military commitments in the future, yet retaining a strong defense and the ability to fight when required.

      If we had a true citizens militia I would be quite willing to serve. For that matter, if we had something like a Home Guard I would gladly volunteer. However, what we do have is not those things.

      God bless and protect all those who serve, in the military and in other ways. May he also guide leaders of nations and leaders of men to be wise, just, and true.

    • Adriana

      Do you want your freedom? Do you value it? You probably say yes.

      Do you want it and value it enough to take arms to defend it?

      If you say no, that means that you are willing to be defended through the efforts of others. That you are perfectly happy, and claim it as your right that others should die or be maimed so that you can be free.

      Are you a pacifist? Do you believe that war is bad and no one should fight it? That is open to debate, but you are consistent, and deserve respect.

      You are not? Do you support the current wars now being fought? Then, are you willing to pick up a rifle and join the troops? If you are not,then you are one of those despicable creatures, a chickenhawk.

      It is painful to see one’s children go to war. One would think that that would be a very good reason for citizens to deliberate deeply before going to war, to make sure that wars are not fought for trivial or despicable reasons.

      Reality check: Wars means that people die. If you are unhappy with that, then it is your duty to help keep wars to an unavoidable minimum – some wars must be fought (World War II) and some wars should have never been fought (World War I), and we should cultivate the wisdom to tell the difference.

      (Also, as an aside – wars are expensive. One of the mistakes of the previous administration was unwillingness to face up that wars have to be paid for, and that might mean raising taxes – or did they think that the American public is no longer capable of patriotism and sacrifice?)

    • Stephanus Mattheus

      On further reflection, I had some additional thoughts on universal service.

      Since we as a nation have a system of federalism and state’s rights, it would seem appropriate that the obligation not be framed in a national way.

      Further, since Catholic thinking has a role for subsidiarity, there should be a role for local communities in such a plan.

      Also, as a matter of personal taste and other reasons, I much prefer we not expect the young women to serve in any sort of military role.

      So perhaps the obligation could be filled through service in the active or reserve portion of the federal military forces, the state National Guard/militia forces, the federal Peace Corps or AmeriCorps, a state level service corps, or through some number of hours of community service within a certain length of time.

      In fact, it would be great if those volunteering with non-profits, NGOs, churches, etc doing humanitarian type work could get credit. This is the same sort of work that the Peace Corps does, and it would seem in keeping with both liberty and subsidiarity to allow such options.

      The trouble would be organizing, monitoring, and enforcing a system that had many options, but it would seem worth the risk if done right.

      In principle I am all for universal service.
      However, my problems are how to avoid concentrating more power in the government and generating even greater dependence on government.
      Also, how to provide a role for state and local government in keeping with our constitutional system.
      Further, how to provide for subsidiarity and involvement of non-government social and community groups.
      Finally, how to provide for the various types and degrees of objectors.

      After all, universal service could easily be a form of centralizing power in the federal government and trampling on the rights of individuals, states, and community.

    • I am not Spartacus

      “Do you want it and value it enough to take arms to defend it?”

      That’d be a good question to ask the Feds when they reinstitute the Draft (which Obama will do).

      When your servant, your Congressman, tell you he is going to vote to reinstitute The Draft tell him you will oppose the draft unless it includes him.

      If the political class is exempted from The Draft we will know is not a matter of national survival but for one of many, many, other reasons which have nothing to do with liberty or freedom.

    • Chcrix

      Adrianna:

      The chickenhawks are the ones who supported the current series of wars, not those who opposed them.

      Your post takes as a given that the current wars of FedCo are legitimate exercises in the preservation of freedom.

      Many disagree with this assertion. Indeed as Orwell showed so graphically in 1984, an unending series of wars is intended to destroy our freedom – not save it.

      The draft merely enables our so-called “leaders” in their reckless foreign policy.

    • Joe H

      Adriana,

      I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that in a society as large as ours, some people are going to have to die to defend the freedom of others. We don’t need all 300,000,000 Americans to go to war, but we’d like them all to remain free.

      The problem is when the wars we fight have nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with imperial ambition, like the ones we are fighting now.

      I would love to serve, or at least support, a country pursuing aims I found morally acceptable. But on the hierarchy of moral priorities, ‘country’ is not ‘first’ as John McCain would have it, and empire is nowhere on the list.

    • Micha Elyi

      At one time militia service was essentially mandatory for everyone of sound mind and body between certain ages.

      I disagree. Militia service was only imposed on men, not “everyone.”

      All mandatory national service schemes that include a military component inevitably collide with the now-fashionable ideology of feminism. Unless men and women serve side-by-side in all capacities, people of one sex will be treated as more disposable (i.e., less valued as human beings) than the other. Historically the disposable sex has been men and part of women’s heritage of privileges has been having their lives being more protected and valued.

    • D.B.

      Sir,

      I appreciate your service to this country, and I don’t disagree with you about the Chickenhawk criticism. I am greatly incensed by terms like “illegal” and “immoral” and I challenge anybody for using those terms which are an indictment on veterans as well…because if those words fit, then by not resisting or refusing to go with full knowledge of what I or somebody else was doing, that makes me or anyone else a “war criminal” and “immoral.” You are not a war criminal or “baby killer” for serving in Vietnam, and I am not a war criminal or “baby killer” for having served in Iraq. I signed on the dotted line knowing full well what was happening, what I was doing….with zero “invincible ignorance.” Using such loaded terms like that is a disservice to our soldiers, and is not supportive in the least. I would ask anybody what they think such talk does to unit morale and how that is “supporting the troops.”

      You believe the war was a mistake…as do many others. A tactical blunder in the War on Terror…Ok. Ask a lot of the guys and they would probably say the same thing. My issue is with the tone and rhetoric of the Anti-War movement…I am old fashioned and still believe in the power and meaning of words…the use of the above terms refers to something very specific, and offensive.

      Again, historically President Bush is not the worse president we’ve ever had….James Buchanan or a handful of others could lay claim to that title.

    • D.B.

      To Joe H: You have intellectual honesty, and this isn’t about dissent itself. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about things…I find the rhetoric of much of the Anti-war movement to be deplorable and repugnant. I know there is divergent opinions in the military itself as anywhere else…but it is a disservice to our servicemembers to imply that they are war criminals or idiots who couldn’t hack it in real life and signed up for the Army…or that they didn’t know what the hell they were doing. Freedom is a two way street….you made your point…and my feelings aren’t “sensitive”…I just thought you had more sense or respect for the military, which I view as a noble profession on par with being a teacher or doctor. I have a college education, and knew what I was signing up for…I guess that doesn’t make me a pawn, but diabolical right? A willing accomplice to “the machine”….

      To Kurt: I appreciate your commentary, but read my above posts to see where my ire is directed…one need not criticize the war and be a jackass…I don’t lump you in that category. Have you ever read an enlistment contract before? It is quite clear…at least there was no bull on mine. I have had several members of my family serve in the military, my father among them…and I grew up travelling and living on military bases. I knew full well that I would be called for to serve and possibly die where ever my country sent me. Soldiers are taught to disobey illegal orders, and regulation is quite clear on what constitutes an illegal order. There is still the UCMJ, however imperfectly it is applied at times.
      I am no war monger…..no soldier with any sanity “likes War”…it is a profession, a vocation to many. Some may dismiss what I say as brainwashed talk or right wing chest thumping, but I don’t want to take over the world…nor does any other servicemember. We are serving the United States…we are not in Bush’s Army, or Obama’s Army…we are in America’s Army. President Obama is my commander in chief, and I would be just as quick to criticize those people who are rabidly anti-Obama as I would those who are rabidly anti-Bush. As I said, I’m old fashioned…and believe in Respect for the Office, respect for the rank, respect for the position….the ineptitude or abuse of the above doesn’t diminish its power or our responsibilities to the same..

    • Bruce

      ..except maybe the Israelites settlement of the Promised Land, the early Muslim attempt to conquer Europe, taxation without representation, human slavery, barbary pirates, fascism, communist expansion, and (so far) suicide terror bombings on US soil.

    • Guardian

      I believe, based on Just War Theory, that this is an unjust war. I have not seen anyone give a compelling case for it being just. There are credible reports of up to 1 million unarmed people being killed since this war began.

      I believe that anyone who volunteers to serve in the military to go and kill foreigners is behaving immorally. Soldiers are not protecting me or my family or my country by going to foreign lands to kill foreign peoples in their homes. No Iraqis were responsible for any attacks on America. The American Government is currently perpetrating war crimes in Iraq—aggressive war, torture, killing of unarmed people, etc. People who volunteer for this 6 year war (longer than WWII) should know full well that this war is a farce. America long ago separated from the Republic and became an Empire—with all the accompanying sins that go along with “world conquest and domination”.

      To say that soldiers are dupes or pawns is giving them the benefit of the doubt. No person can put themselves into a situation where they must perform an act of killing and claim justification for their action. Why do people think they are protecting our country? Our country has not been invaded. If it ever is, there would be an abundance of people who would protect this country . . . sort of like the Iraqis are currently doing. They have been invaded by a non-friendly, hostile, killing force that wants to control them in every conceivable way. They will fight to get rid of foreign soldiers or die trying . . . sort of like how Americans would if we were invaded.

      Soldiers must get the platitudes straight and convince themselves that they are doing good, but many people don’t see that. I’m sure some would use violence to get people to see things that way (the threat above signifies that), but that only proves the aggressive nature of trained soldiers—willing to fight and kill those who disagree with them. The problem with soldiers is they view everyone as a potential enemy worthy of death or dismemberment.

      On the issue of military draft. No way–it violates the 13th Amendment. I do not want strangers in Washington D.C. to take my children from me and force them to fight for this Godforsaken government. This culture of death must be resisted and it starts with voluntarily giving up the trappings of a military lifestyle in an ever expanding Empire.

      Guardian

    • Kurt

      D.B.,

      Thank you for not lumping me with the donkeys.

      My dad served 20 years in the army, I lived 2 years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, among other places. I’ve had recruiters in my parents’ home telling me all about the benefits of the army, marines, and navy. I took the ASVAB, but went no further.

      I am opposed to the current wars, but I entered the combox to talk about the draft in particular, and how missionary service and good parenting improve the moral fabric of a nation more than do forced military service.

      Let me conclude by saying I am not one of those who would spit in the homecoming soldiers faces during the parades at their return, I won’t boo them, I don’t attend anti-war rallies. I am a civil man and you are right that there is a proponderance of unthoughtful uncivil dissenters.

    • Adriana

      I am not Spartacus:

      Indeed, you have noticed that I said that people who say “I do not want to fight, and I do not want anyone else to” are being consequent, and the argument with them is a different one – that some wars do need to be fought – and that discerning which is which takes wisdom – something that seems to be in short supply, alas.

      By chickenhawks I mean those who are all for war, provided they are not included.

      It may well be that not everyone in the country may be needed at the front, but that does not mean that we should not all be willing to go there when the need arises – though we must as citizens constest whether it is a question of “needs” or “wants”.

      Not to go because a) there are better qualified people than you at the front or b) you may physically unable to do so or c) your skills may be of better use behind the lines – even further behind the lines is a honorable course.

      To argue that the war is not needed or actually harmful (as the war of 1812 was, which ended with the White House burned down – the Canadians do sing a funny song about it ‘The White House burned, burned, burned, and we are the ones who did it”) is a honorable course.

      What is fully dishonorable is to agree that war is needed, to think it a good thing, and then stand on your Constitutional right not to risk being sent to the front.

    • Stephanus Mattheus

      Micha Elyi

      Correct, at those times only men were required to serve. Though at those times only men could usually vote, serve on juries, or have title to property. Modern universal service would seem to need a role for women, though perhaps not a military role.

      For my part I have no problem with women having certain military roles, but I very much oppose placing women into combat. For my part I would prefer that women, children, and the aged be able to stay at a safe distance. I don’t think it is mere coincidence that throughout much of history those who used women to fight were considered uncivilized barbarians. I greatly appreciate those women who are willing and able to serve. I have known some of them and they are outstanding people.

      Guardian,

      There is certainly a valid question as to the morality of the Iraq war. However, your argument is on only a slightly higher level than a bumper sticker.
      You would be wise to take the following items as separate questions rather than making one argument for all.
      1. Was the original war decision just?
      2. Was it just to stay after the invasion?
      3. Is our current role just?
      4. If it was/is not just, are individual members of the military culpable for the war?
      5. Are individual citizens, voters, and taxpayers culpable for the war?

      For my personal opinion, I would say that while the original war decision appeared to perhaps be justifiable at the time, with current knowledge it looks like a mistake. However, I think we had and have a moral obligation to help Iraq and its people. We took away their existing system of government and security and thus had an obligation to help provide a replacement.

      Adriana

      Who exactly are the “chickenhawks” then? It seems you excuse all those willing to go fight, all those against fighting, and all of those who while in favor of the war had a rational reason for not going. Doesn’t that essentially eliminate all rational people of good will and thus make the term nothing but an empty slur?

    • D.B.

      Very few in our military volunteered to “go and kill foreigners” although in a war that is what is going to happen. Have you ever been to Iraq, Guardian? We are not trying to “control them in every concievable way”…we are trying to help them stand on their own. Now one could say that it is Wreckless idealism and that we shouldn’t be “Nation Building”…that argument has and continues to be made…but to imply we are trying to make them a colony is ridiculous and totally divorced from reality.

    • Chris B in Maryland

      Drafting Women is a means of the State to Subordinate the Judeo-Christian institution of The Family to the State.

      Catholic teaching, and western civilization, recognizes that there are Just Wars, and that it may be the duty of a peace-loving man to justifiably take up arms to defeat an evil aggressor. This idea implies that to fight in a just war is a reluctant act of a civilized man, who takes up arms to shield his home and family, and those of other men. This is the theme of Virgil’s Aeneid.

      To force a man to take up arms is a last resort of a just government.

      A government that would take a young woman out of her home and force her into the violence of war is invading the very thing that just war theory has defended for thousands of years.

    • Guardian

      Just War Theory:

      The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

      1)the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

      2)all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

      3)there must be serious prospects of success;

      4)the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.

      Stephen Mattheus:

      My “bumper sticker” arguments apparently are too much for you to follow, so I’ll slow down for you.

      Stephen Mattheus:
      your questions

      1) This war meets none of the criteria of Just War. 1) Iraq didn’t attack us. Even if they had, the damage wasn’t lasting, grave or certain. It was a crime perpetrated by criminals, not an act of war requiring the implementation of a police state here at home. Failing #1 makes the rest invalid. But for you I’ll continue 2)Diplomacy was only paid lip service. Hussein, once the friendly puppet, repeatedly asked to not be invaded, but wanted more time for U.N. searches for “weapons of mass destruction”. What happened to them? Because the U.S. did sell him those weapons, the govt. assumed he kept them. 3) there are/were no prospects for success. Six years in and we are still there with our leaders talking about “generations of war”. That doesn’t sound like prospects for success. History is full of Empires attempting to subjugate others and eventually failing. Recent example of Vietnam by U.S. or Afghanistan by Soviets, the only question is how long before we go broke. 4) we’ve used white phosphorous in Fallujah and elsewhere, we’ve used depleted-uranium tipped weapons [Radiation kills for Generations (now there's a bumper sticker for you)], we’ve killed over 1 million people in Iraq, we’ve decimated the largest Christian population in the Middle East, we’ve used torture, we’ve imprisioned people without trial, etc.

      Questions 2 & 3
      2) We need to leave now. We are only prolonging the evils that have been generated. Democracy isn’t forced from the barrel of a gun. (this sentence is a simplified quote of numerous arguments on this topic. If you aren’t familiar with them, then get reading. You sound somewhat intelligent, although arrogant. All of the arguments for intervention get down to this simple statement.)

      4) Our military members are there voluntarily. Anyone who has joined over the last few years should know all of the above. The information is out there. Therefore, they are culpable. The military oath precludes them from following illegal orders. What orders to soldiers in Iraq for an Unjust War can possibly be legal? There are many arguments on this statement. Scholars who know more than my “bumper sticker” slogans do better than my regurgitation. I surmise that you disagree and I’ve followed all of the opposing arguments and find them lacking any morality. It again boils down to simple morality. We are in a deep hole and need to stop digging. We need to leave Iraq now. Remember, everything Hitler did was legal. Our government has turned away from “Rule of Law”. If we hadn’t, then the actions taken during this war that violate the Geneva Conventions and Nuremburg Tribunals would have plenty of accused criminals awaiting trial right now.

      5) Citizens, individuals, and taxpayers are culpable morally for any support they have given to this war effort, but the ones who are truly culpable are those who have had the power to prosecute this war. This includes politicians, military brass and individual soldiers. Obviously, this last question can be argued forever, but ultimately God will judge.

      I am taking the position that this war and the evils associated with it are not getting my support. I am taking the position that my behavior of being against war, murder, torture, depleted-uranium weapons, white phosphorous, theft, rape, assault, false imprisonment, imprisonment without trial, beatings, waterboarding and all of the other evils associated with War in Iraq will be a choice that increases my holiness in the eyes of God.

      Now, your argument about government service seems to be, “If the government wants it, the government will get it.” Please correct me if I’m wrong.

      Also, I would like you to answer some questions.

      1) Is the Iraq War just?
      2) Why are we there?
      3) What evils, if any, have been committed?
      4) Is White Phosphorous legal to use in wartime?
      5) Is Depleted-Uranium tipped shells legal to use in wartime? What will be the effects of radiation on Iraqi’s in the years too come?
      6) Is waterboarding torture?
      7) Is raping prisoners legal?
      smilies/cool.gif Does the U.S. Constitution, Amendment 13, allow for “government service” to be imposed?

      D.B.,

      “. . . but to imply we are trying to make them a colony is ridiculous and totally divorced from reality.”

      I believe that our leaders said that we would use their resources, oil, to pay for the war. That implies colony. We have built four military bases that are among the largest in the world in the country of Iraq. The traditional term is colony, but I’m open to a new one. The fact is that we have those bases, we will keep those bases and we will continue to monitor the puppet government in Iraq. Now, who’s kidding who when it comes to reality?

    • Adriana

      Stephanus, I am trying to separate the argument for the draft against the justifications or woeful lack of those for the current war.

      I agree with you that the current war was totally unnecessary, and thus evil like all unnecessary wars. But the argument about the draft has little to do with the justification for wars (indeed the draft might act as a brake for unjustified wars – one of the reason they abolished the draft was because the oppostion to the Vietnam war was fueled by the refusal to submit to it. With a volunteer army, they reasoned, people would be more acquiescent about going to war. As long as it did not touch them or their kids, they were all for it).

      But while the current war is unjustified, and thus evil, it does not follow that all wars are. And some wars *do* have to be fought, and in a war in which our freedom, or our existence as a nation is at stake it is dishonorable to stand aside and let others do the heavy lifting.

      As for the exceptions you noted, well, they are accepted practice. You may not want people in the front if a)the good they can do does not justify the logistics of keeping them supplied or b) they have any of the physical handicaps – such as blindness – that make them unsuitable for the task, or c) they have specialized skills – say in cryptology, or in scientific research that makes them more useful behind the lines. After all, the good that Turing could do with a bayonnet was rather small compared with his ability to break up Enigma.

      As for women, well, as much as we cling to chivalrous ideas, the fact is that when the front is overrun, women are brutally raped. Would it not be better, for them and for their families, to have guns, military training, and the abilit to help the front to keep it from being overrun?

      We have a very romantic idea of war in this country (except the South, where they can tell what happens when a front is overrun), so we can afford to cling to impractical ideas.

    • D.B.

      Again, Guardian…..have you ever been to Iraq?

      Do you have any idea about the security situation? Apparently you don’t. You have no idea what the hell is going on over there do you, and if you do, you are being disingenous and dishonest for the sake of an ideological point. How many UN resolutions were there against Saddam Hussein calling for action if he failed to comply? Bill Clinton himself advocated Saddam’s ouster, but it was ok when a Democrat was saying it, right? This whole situation demonstrated the uselessness of the UN….their resolutions are meaningless, because they won’t back them up…and the US goes and actually enforces the resolutions, takes action…and the world condemns…utter nonsense. Maybe if the UN was actually willing to take military action to smack down rogue states with the full brunt of their combined war machines, maybe we would have less rogue states…instead of wagging their finger and being laughed at by every dictator in the world. Arguments can be made that it was unnecessary, or a tactical mistake…that we should have focused more on Afghanistan and Pakistan. Perhaps…but to say we want to make Iraq a colony is stupid…Germany isn’t a colony, South Korea isn’t a colony…stupid.

    • Guardian

      D.B.

      Which nation should we attack next? How many people should we kill there? At what point will the U.S. be able to lessen it’s military presence around the globe? At what point does our government decide that an Empire only makes a country go broke?

      What constitutes a rogue atate? Is it one that disavows the U.N. resolutions? Is it one that engages in aggressive warfare for nebulous reasons? Is it one in which the people don’t have control over their government?

    • ben

      A government that would conscript women would not be worth defending.

    • Jeff

      This is nuts. Conscription in any form, whether for the military or “national service” is slavery. If the government has the power to physically uproot you and force you to perform some action for as long as it wants, well…isn’t that the very definition of slavery? If they can do that, what can’t they do? Any attempt at conscription should be met by widespread resistance. To serve this Moloch government is to serve Satan.

    • Thomas Casey

      Somehow I am unimpressed with those who want defending against any and all bad guys but will not raise a finger to do it, and insist on a guiltfree high standard of living in the bargain. That is now, what–98% of our coddled citizenry?

      I am the furthest thing from a “team player or a “true believer”, but my being drafted about 5 seconds after getting my degree in 1965 probably did more in the end to make me grow up than CCD, religion classes , or college ever did. Most of my contemporaries evaded the draft by one means or another. I find it significant that years afterwards they all felt pretty sheepish about it.

      Frankly I think that most people in this country are unappreciative sheep and I certainly would not want to share a bunker with them at 2AM. This country does not always get it right but compared to our enemies I don’t have much trouble making up my mind.

      By the way, 22 years as a law enforcement officer only confirmed my thoughts. God bless the righteous warrior.

    • James Kabala

      I think the dates on these reprinted articles from the archives should be featured more prominently. Oftentimes the discussion proceeds along lines in which most participants treat the article as brand-new.

    • James Kabala

      Looks as if I am the dummy – I just noticed all the comments are themselves two years old (although not as old as the six-year-old article). I thought they had all been made today! I believe my general point still stands, however.